I saw the videos of “humane slaughter” in Canada. Sorry…not buying it.:no: Horses were being shot multiple times from some distance inaccurately and hung up alive. How anyone can condone that sort of atrocity as “necessary,” I cannot fathom. Sure there are other ways to deal with excess horses.
I don’t think large plant assembly line slaughter for horses is humane nor has it ever been humane. If and only if it could be brought into small local plants would I ever support the idea. Then you have the issue of who will eat the meat and meat safety still unsolved.
Everyone is also ignoring the drug issue…the passport/traceability issue. It’s coming folks; and last I heard, Canada was looking at implementing a passport system. Unless the US does something, our horses will not be slaughtered anywhere. Considering that it’s only 100k horses a year or about 3 extra horses per county in the US annually to dispose of another way, I don’t see it as a momentous problem.
Don’t forget mandatory six months in a feed lot too for horses with unknown drug history. Try to imagine these gently bred WB’s in a feed lot with no vet care for six months. Humane? Not sure how it can be like that.
I personally don’t get excited about these horses being WB’s. To me they are of no more importance than the thousands of other horses headed to the slaughterhouse. They all suffer in the system regardless of breed or pedigree.
FWIW, I have stopped breeding. No foals for us next year and I have 5 youngsters at a trainer now.
For those that are interested in possibly helping these guys, they do have a home to go to if the bail can be raised. AC4H is trying to see if the Broker will hold them for another week instead of shipping them today.
I personally have bought 3 horses from 4C4H. I paid for 2 of them to be quarantined (2 different occasions). I can 100% confirm that they were actually quarantined and taken good care of because I went and visited the horses on various occasions before bringing them home.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;5661757]
Your still missing my point. I never said they are slaughted because there are too many. The bottom line is that slaughter (and the methods) exists in Canada because it is legal. THE REASON WE HAVEN’T CHANGED THE LAWS IS BECAUSE OF THE ISSUE OF UNWANTED HORSES. See the difference? I suggested the laws are not changed because of a surplus, not that slaughter is cause by a surplus. The actual facilities, that exist within the laws, are due to the market –never suggest otherwise if you read my post. I am not sure why you keep explaining the free market system. [/QUOTE]
What you wrote originally was this: ‘I am sure the only reason we still have slaughter is because we are aware of the issue of unwanted horses.’
That was easy to misconstrue. You did not clarify that the surplus was not the reason for the slaughtering. The rhetoric from the pro-slaughter people is that slaughter is a service to clear our streets of surplus, unwanted horses. If AC4H has done nothing else positive they have proven that with the right marketing, specifically 'The Truck is COMING!!!", there are no unwanted horses.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;5661757]
And if you can organize Euth clinics how can you deny that humane slaughter would not be feasible? One uses a bullet and utilizes the animal, the other uses drugs and has a cost associated with it for animal disposal. Even if the meat was sold locally as pet food it would create enough of a market to make it worth while. There is so much rhetoric on the subject that has been recited over and over again that people forget it doesn’t have to be choice A or B. I think sometimes those who are against slaughter are those that deny the marketability of humane slaughter because it very well MIGHT work.[/QUOTE]
I do not think it would work because the present system is about/based on volume, and local small plants would not have that same volume, meat would have to ship further in smaller quantities, etc. On the other hand a euth clinic can set up anywhere. It could be a once a month thing, with a Vet on hand to put the horses down and renderer on hand to remove carcasses. No dedicated facility to build with specialized design, no employees to pay and insure, etc.
Selling horsemeat locally as pet food? People are buying their dogs gourmet dog food, and cooking for them. They are not going to want to feed them horsemeat [there were polls done of avg. peeps who are non-horsepeople and they were against slaughter], the avg. person is way more squeamish than ‘us’.
Exactly I don’t think you could convert people in enough numbers for the 100,000 horses to be consumed as dog food. I’m not against local small plants or using the meat to feed dogs… I just do not see that it would be feasible, that it could be done in a humane fashion [ie funding to oversee that would come from… where?] or that there would be enough of a market for the meat to make it feasible or the answer to those ‘unwanted horses’. And you still have to deal with the drugs in the horses that would not be suitable for dog food. You’d need to have feedlots to clear those drugs, and some take as long as 6 months to clear. That’s a huge cost= hurdle.
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;5661963]
I saw the videos of “humane slaughter” in Canada. Sorry…not buying it.:no: Horses were being shot multiple times from some distance inaccurately and hung up alive. How anyone can condone that sort of atrocity as “necessary,”
Everyone is also ignoring the drug issue…the passport/traceability issue. It’s coming folks; and last I heard, Canada was looking at implementing a passport system. Unless the US does something, our horses will not be slaughtered anywhere.
Don’t forget mandatory six months in a feed lot too for horses with unknown drug history.
I personally don’t get excited about these horses being WB’s. To me they are of no more importance than the thousands of other horses headed to the slaughterhouse. They all suffer in the system regardless of breed or pedigree.
FWIW, I have stopped breeding. No foals for us next year and I have 5 youngsters at a trainer now.[/QUOTE]
Most of the ‘slaughter’ videos are released by groups like HUS or PETA or yes, even more radical groups. Consider the source of the information. Some have been proved to not even have been made in NA. Nothing to do with opposing your opinion, just the source.
The ‘drug issue’ is a non issue. The owner at the auction will simply sign a statement that they have owned the horse for more than 6 months and that none of the medication it was given is illegal under the rules. Not ALL meds are illegal. Things like wormers are perfectly OK as an example.
Or more horses will go to Mexico where there is a domestic market for horsemeat so the EU regs won’t come into play.
I do agree that the fact that a horse is a WB and in a feed lot doesn’t upset me. No breeds are exempt and many considerably more expensive ( based on yearling sale price ) TB’s end up at auctions.
Each culture has it’s own taboo food sources. Cows are sacred in India. I don’t see that culture complaining about a NA choice to consume cattle. But some far eastern cultures routinely consume dogs and cats. In the US animals are viewed more as companion animals instead of agricultural products. This contributes to public sentiment against slaughter and has allowed ‘rescues’ to become profitable business arrangements instead of the humane purpose they started out to serve. Too much emotional content.
http://unwantedhorsecoalition.org
This group pushes prevention by creating responsible owners which seems to agree with many of the opinions expressed in this thread. They do have positions that not many of you will support.
Glad that you are not breeding this year. Nothing wring with continuing to breed if you are selling your product. If they aren’t moving then stop.
‘Or more horses will go to Mexico where there is a domestic market for horsemeat so the EU regs won’t come into play.’
The majority of horses shipping to Mexico to be slaughtered are for EU plants, the Mexican market is a very small, small market. Therefore, for a majority of horses shipping to Mexico those EU regs do indeed apply.
I also think there are some common dewormers which are regulated, that is prohibited, and not just a ‘need to wait for it to leave the system’ thing. They are ivermectin and pyrantel iirc, but I have no looked at the list in a while, and my memory ain’t what it used to be! Correction, per the IED I linked, the dewormers have a withdrawal period varying from 7 days to 36.
However, Bute and Nitrofurazone [Niderm Ointment] are on the banned, ie never can be slaughtered for human consumption, list.
[QUOTE=Buglet;5662023]
For those that are interested in possibly helping these guys, they do have a home to go to if the bail can be raised. AC4H is trying to see if the Broker will hold them for another week instead of shipping them today.
I personally have bought 3 horses from 4C4H. I paid for 2 of them to be quarantined (2 different occasions). I can 100% confirm that they were actually quarantined and taken good care of because I went and visited the horses on various occasions before bringing them home.[/QUOTE]
They were not at his sale on Saturday. So I guess they are still hoping that AC4H will come through with more money than they will fetch at auction. I went on Saturday with my trailer & checkbook hoping they would be run through. Did not see them in the pens, nor were they run through (although there were several horses in the pens that were not run through~not a lot of buyers due to storms, etc). There was another supposed Warmblood mare there (no branding, could have been a draft cross), sweet, quiet, sound & big, I do not think she brought $800. Much better off to get more money through AC4H it seems for those looking to earn a profit…
[QUOTE=stoicfish;5660850]
Angela,
I disagree. Canada, like the US could ban horse slaughter, regardless of whether there is a feasible market or not. There is a market for cocaine and that is not legal in Canada, so when I “thought again”, I just found your logic flawed. The main reason that we as Canadians have not chosen that route is due to the issue of where would our surplus animals go. It is a huge issue and until resolved, it would be an even longer trip to Mexico from Canada and it is one of the major reasons why many people in the horse industry do not lobby the issue.
.[/QUOTE]
This is it in context. It always impled that the laws are not going to change because of the issue of unwanted horses.
I do not want to go into the business of slaughtering horses but I know that someone could make it feasible. Think of all the businesses out there that have created markets were there was no markets previously. Being form a farming community and acquainted with agriculture, I do see a value product in 800pds of meat. And I really do believe that it could be as humane as the average horse that is put down now.
As for the OP, I agree that if someone is interested in giving a horse a home, you can place an add in the paper, go to an auction or a rescue but I wouldn’t support someone who uses the horse as leverage to make you feel bad. Save the money and use it for the vet fees and horse treats for the new pasture puff. It is not a rescue if the horse has to be bought in order for it not to go to slaughter immediately, that is a broker. A rescue makes a commitment to the animal. A broker makes you aware of a product and charges you for it.
BTW I own a pasture puff. Lost a friend and gained a horse. There are always horses out their if you want to make the commitment. Even WB’s.
I’m in Harford County, Maryland. When I had to euthanize my old TB mare 3 years ago it was $350 for the veterinarian and another $325 for the rendering company, so it certainly can cost that much for euthanasia.
Not everyone can legally bury on their own property.
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;5660384]
That sounds way high. I put an old horse down this Spring. Paid $125 to vet to euthanize him and another $125 for the backhoe. I realize the costs can vary per area but no way should it cost that much unless you want to cremate the horse or something.
I would be all for local slaughterhouses where we could take our horses that are no longer wanted but that does nothing to solve meat safety issues. In Europe they have passports and ways to know what drugs went in a horse from birth…here in the US we do not. Some drugs have no withdrawal period either like Bute…one of the most common drugs given to US horses. It sounds like a good solution to build local plants but in reality it still leaves us with other problems.
Last I read, the EU was going to require a 100% traceability system (passport) for all nations providing horsemeat to them by 2012 so unless the US does something fast, there will no longer be a horse slaughter market for human consumption at all unless the meat goes somewhere else. Since it’s a demand driven industry, I would not have any idea who else would want it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;5662114]
Only one thing to point out to you SA:
‘Or more horses will go to Mexico where there is a domestic market for horsemeat so the EU regs won’t come into play.’
The majority of horses shipping to Mexico to be slaughtered are for EU plants, the Mexican market is a very small, small market. Therefore, for a majority of horses shipping to Mexico those EU regs do indeed apply.
I also think there are some common dewormers which are regulated, that is prohibited, and not just a ‘need to wait for it to leave the system’ thing. They are ivermectin and pyrantel iirc, but I have no looked at the list in a while, and my memory ain’t what it used to be! Correction, per the IED I linked, the dewormers have a withdrawal period varying from 7 days to 36.
However, Bute and Nitrofurazone [Niderm Ointment] are on the banned, ie never can be slaughtered for human consumption, list.
But markets adapt to changing conditions. Mexico has an investment in the slaughter industry. Instead of losing their investment they will switch to marketing horsemeat for human consumption or dogmeat or zoo meat. It’s simply common sense business.
As you found out wormers are not banned. But it goes back to whatever the owner says on the medication form not the actual truth. And really, if the horse is going to slaughter the owner probably hasn’t kept up medication and vac programs anyway.
Horsemeat is a product with several markets. We need to stop treating horses as companion animals and treat them as agricultural products. The Euro breeders that you all seem to admire so much do this so what’s the problem? Too many romantic beliefs kind of got the US into the unwanted horse problem to start with.
Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s what precipitated this mess to begin with. Then the economy tanked and then we were off to the races.
Again, I’ve thought alot about this, and if there is a market for horse meat, then that IS a viable solution for unwanted horses.
The vast majority of us eat meat in some form, and I refuse to think horses suffer any more than any other creature. The key is to make the transport, holding & death as humane as possible.
And that goes for cows, pigs, chickens, sheep – ALL those sentient being we gobble down.
Horses are expensive animals that eat alot. That is a fact. Period.
However, there IS a market for them, so I see no problem with a certain % of the unwanted horse market going for that use. But (if I were Queen of The World), this would exclude many of the very old, very young, very lame/infirm from being shipped. Holding space/time would be highly regulated, handling/slaughter would be as humane as we can make it.
We all have just talked about how “humane” a bullet is, so what the heck is the problem with “slaughter”? Does the horse care if it’s eaten?
No, the problem is the cruelty that goes on BEFORE the killing, and that happens to every other creature RIGHT NOW in this country. So how come horse get this free pass? At least most horses have had a pretty good life BEFORE this end.
Pause for a moment and think of all the animals on factory farms that suffer almost from birth.
Again, I am not an economist, so I wonder if it would still be cost effective to run slaughter plants this way – with MUCH tighter regulations – but it’s a much more realistic plan that totally banning slaughter.
And people need to remember: no one is FORCING you to send your horse to slaughter. And no one is stopping you from rescuing as many horses as you want – get 3-4 a week if you want – knock yourself out!!!
But, just as no one has been able to stop the MILLIONS of people from abandoning a loyal pet to an almost certain death in a shelter because they are moving, or lost their job, or the dog is too much trouble, or all those other STUPID reasons people give for dropping their pet off, no one is going to be able to stop people from making moral decisions on how to get rid of something they OWN.
Animals are property…and, while I’m not sure I want to change that, you can’t tell folks what to do with their property.
So try to set up a situation where even when those people make a thoughtless, stupid decision, maybe the animal doesn’t suffer too much before the end.
And having seen plenty of suffering at the hands of those who refuse to recognize that Death is a part of Life, I don’t see banning slaughter as a workable or even kind, solution.
That’s my opinion, anyway, and what I will be working towards.
BTW, I costs me $350 to put a horse down. $250 for vet/farm call and $100 for the back hoe guy to bury the horse here.
And, as several posters have pointed out, our objection to horses being eaten is strictly a cultural thing.
In Russia horses are raised STRICTLY for meat. They are a certain breed/strain and they are raised like cattle – ZERO attempt to handle or train or anything else like an American horse.
They use them sometimes in studies, because they are so unhandled…pretty close to wild.
So the market is there, obviously. Just not in America.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]
Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s what precipitated this mess to begin with. Then the economy tanked and then we were off to the races.
Again, I’ve thought alot about this, and if there is a market for horse meat, then that IS a viable solution for unwanted horses.
The vast majority of us eat meat in some form, and I refuse to think horses suffer any more than any other creature. The key is to make the transport, holding & death as humane as possible.
QUOTE]
I so agree with you.
In fact that’s the position that the Unwanted Horse coalition takes. Banning slaughter plus the economy caused the issue. So be careful what you ask for and weigh the consequences.
In Oct 2009 the UWHC coalition suggested this as a solution.
“reopen the nation’s horse meat processing plants”
along with;
“Increase options and resources to Euthanize unwanted horses.
Educate horse owners to purchase and own responsibly
Increase the ability of rescue and retirement facilities to care
for unwanted horses.”
They also promote gelding and reducing breeding.
Here is the article on the videos. It was not simple propaganda but coverage of hundreds of horses being slaughtered in several different plants. Tempe Grandin reviewed all of the unedited video (hours of it) and failed all the plants on existing humane standards.
I passed the links to the video when it was on line and first released on to a good friend in Guelph who used to be a slaughter plant inspector for beef and pork and she was very upset by the gross violations of humane treatment that she saw. She tried to contact the government agencies to regulate slaughter and was told to shut up and go away. She’s now a member of the Canadian Horse Defense Fund.
Apparently there had been some labor dispute in the plants and inspectors were not allowed on the kill floor when they were killing horses…so the gross inhumane slaughter was not reported. This went on for years. Again…as Angela Freda pointed out…when profit is the motive, the animals will always suffer.
My friend also quit being an inspector for the same reason. She said that when there was ever a decision made, it was in the benefit of profit and not for the welfare of the animals. She got tired of fighting the good old boy system also and seeing her reports of incidents be forgotten and people left unpunished for acts of cruelty. So don’t fool yourself that large slaughter plants for any animals are run humanely.
Horses do tend to have it worse though than regular food animals as they are so small in numbers and off the radar of big corporations like McDonalds or KFC that push for audits and humane treatment of the meat they they market here to US consumers.
[quote=S A McKee;5662037]The ‘drug issue’ is a non issue. The owner at the auction will simply sign a statement that they have owned the horse for more than 6 months and that none of the medication it was given is illegal under the rules. Not ALL meds are illegal. Things like wormers are perfectly OK as an example.
Or more horses will go to Mexico where there is a domestic market for horsemeat so the EU regs won’t come into play.
[/quote]
You’re joking right? A non issue? You do realize that bute has no withholding period at all. Once given, the horses is forever banned from human consumption. That very common drug and a number of others also. I would wager that a large % of horses have had bute at some point in their lives, wouldn’t you? How about two lame WBs? Almost certainly…bon apetit!
The document they sign is a joke. I strongly suspect most people just sign the thing to sell the horse. If there are no legal repercussions if a horse comes up positive (and no way to trace it back) then they can sign anything and get away with it. It’s one of those “to the best of my knowledge” sort of things and far from legally enforceable.
Those horses without papers, get a six month vacation in a feed lot before slaughter. What a wonderful experience that must be. :o
It is this huge loophole/issue that is driving the EU to push the passport system on Canada and Mexico…basically anyone they buy horsemeat from. Mexico mainly sells to the EU also, so no, American horses can’t go there either without their passports with the exception of those few small slaughterhouses killing to sell the meat locally. That’s not many of them selling locally either.
So it IS a huge issue and ignoring it while blathering on about how we need to make slaughter more humane and how necessary it is to get rid of extra horses (which is a fallacy) is not going to keep the EU market open for US horses.
Don’t get me wrong again, I’m not anti slaughter but I do not think the system remotely works now and it is inhumane. I also don’t think horsemeat is reasonable safe to eat as the lack of controls on drugs and substances virtually ensure contaminated meat is entering the food chain.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]
Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s what precipitated this mess to begin with. Then the economy tanked and then we were off to the races.
…
.[/QUOTE]
Many many thumbs up from me for the whole of this post, to bad that more people can’t see this.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]
Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s what precipitated this mess to begin with. Then the economy tanked and then we were off to the races.
Again, I’ve thought alot about this, and if there is a market for horse meat, then that IS a viable solution for unwanted horses.
The vast majority of us eat meat in some form, and I refuse to think horses suffer any more than any other creature. The key is to make the transport, holding & death as humane as possible.[/QUOTE]
And how do you do that? We had plants in the US that were around a long long time and things were no better there than they are in Canada and Mexico. Making it humane requires oversight, and consequences, and enforcement. Also known as $$, $$$, and $$$$. Cause when your main objective is the bottom line, those things will cost those who care about making sure things are Kosher [so to speak] to insure that they are. Ya’ can’t leave the fox guarding the hen house like was the case before the plants here in the US closed.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]And that goes for cows, pigs, chickens, sheep – ALL those sentient being we gobble down.
Horses are expensive animals that eat alot. That is a fact. Period.
However, there IS a market for them, so I see no problem with a certain % of the unwanted horse market going for that use. But (if I were Queen of The World), this would exclude many of the very old, very young, very lame/infirm from being shipped.[/QUOTE] lo and behold the lame and infirm are already illegal to ship- horses not able to bear wt. on all 4 feet, those under [is it 600# or 6 months? Anyone?] are not legal to ship. Ya’ think that stops them? Again enforcement costs money no one wants to pay in the form of taxes to get 'er done.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]Holding space/time would be highly regulated, handling/slaughter would be as humane as we can make it.
We all have just talked about how “humane” a bullet is, so what the heck is the problem with “slaughter”? Does the horse care if it’s eaten?[/QUOTE] It’s not what they do with the meat afterwards that makes it inhumane… shooting a horse in his own field/home farm or in less stressful environs is far different than stuffing them in huge trailers with other, strange horses, starving them and not watering them while they travel, and then presenting them at the maze leading to the knock box and then some dude leaning down over them with the pneumatic bolt trying to hit them in juuuuust the right spot. Whether those videos we see are the extreme exception or more the rule, how do any of us think that’s ok? Seriously, even if those videos only represent 10% of the total kills, how is that ok?
in my mind horses do not ‘get a pass’… the thing is that most horses were processed in plants here in the us that were cattle plants, ie not designed for horses conformation which is vastly different from cows… ie their necks are longer, etc. That is a huge part of the problem, that the plants they are using are all wrong. At least cattle get slaughtered in plants designed for cattle…and Temple Grandin has done alot of work in that field [though obviously she is one woman who can not be at all plants on all days]. Her talk [I heard it on NPR, what it the commonwealth club of CA?] she talked about her work in a pig plant, the procedures she outlined and how improved things were [for the pigs and in terms of safety for the workers] when she left there… but in 6 months when she stopped back in? Not so much.
And really g’head and start a thread here about how cattle are slaughtered., I would love to discuss all the wrongs there… but, see how long it stays up. The thing is that this is a horse forum.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]Pause for a moment and think of all the animals on factory farms that suffer almost from birth.
Again, I am not an economist, so I wonder if it would still be cost effective to run slaughter plants this way – with MUCH tighter regulations – but it’s a much more realistic plan that totally banning slaughter.[/QUOTE]
First off, slaughter is not banned in the US. Two plants in TX were closed as they ran in defiance of a state law banning it. The plant in ILL was closed in part due to neighbors sick of the overrunning sewers, stress on infrastructure, etc. So tell those people having a plant is a-ok. If you want to build a plant in your area, and your state/county allows it, it is perfectly legal for you to do so. Knock yourself out! AS I said before though, tighter regulations mean cost, cost and more cost. Who’s going to pay for all that oversight to insure that regulations are adhered to? Have you seen the fines Frank Carper and several other characters owe? Yeah, they’re not payin’ any time soon. Make 'em!
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]And people need to remember: no one is FORCING you to send your horse to slaughter. And no one is stopping you from rescuing as many horses as you want – get 3-4 a week if you want – knock yourself out!!![/Quote] it does not have to be my horse abused for me to act. Things get better, and change gets made, when people speak up about issues they care about regardless of how directly they are effected.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]But, just as no one has been able to stop the MILLIONS of people from abandoning a loyal pet to an almost certain death in a shelter because they are moving, or lost their job, or the dog is too much trouble, or all those other STUPID reasons people give for dropping their pet off, no one is going to be able to stop people from making moral decisions on how to get rid of something they OWN.
Animals are property…and, while I’m not sure I want to change that, you can’t tell folks what to do with their property.[/QUOTE]
the difference is that dogs and cats and other companion animals get put to sleep in those shelters. I am certain there’s a market for their meat in China… and yet we do not use their bodies as one last way to feed hungry people. I mean after all once their dead it’s just a body, right?
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5662613]So try to set up a situation where even when those people make a thoughtless, stupid decision, maybe the animal doesn’t suffer too much before the end.
And having seen plenty of suffering at the hands of those who refuse to recognize that Death is a part of Life, I don’t see banning slaughter as a workable or even kind, solution.
That’s my opinion, anyway, and what I will be working towards.
BTW, I costs me $350 to put a horse down. $250 for vet/farm call and $100 for the back hoe guy to bury the horse here.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I think it’s Korea that eats dog meat, not China…and I guess the reason we don’t ship there is they have plenty of their own…:eek:
ANY solution is going to cost money. Do you really think that trying to FORCE people to euthanize their horses humanely is going to work? Geeze, there are low-cost spay & neuter clinics everywhere and we still have animals overflowing the shelters.
The big difference is that horses cost many, many more dollars to ‘rescue’ than dogs & cats. So where is that $$ going to come from?
You know, all the car companies screamed like raped apes when the CA gov. put emission regs. in place back in the 80’s.
Yet (somehow) they found a way and still made a profit.
There are bills in the pike in several states to re-open processing plants using private inspectors that can slaughter any number of animals, and horses will be included.
Now, without ANY sort of regulation as to handling, how humane are they going to be?
For that matter, how humane is it to keep 21,000 mustangs in holding areas for years and years and years? Is this really a kindness to them?
Just 'cause something doesn’t die doesn’t mean it’s having a great life…
Sorry – I think we took the wrong road here and need to correct our course. Use all that political clout to improve what we had, not reinvent the wheel…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5663400]
Actually, I think it’s Korea that eats dog meat, not China…and I guess the reason we don’t ship there is they have plenty of their own…:eek:
ANY solution is going to cost money. Do you really think that trying to FORCE people to euthanize their horses humanely is going to work? Geeze, there are low-cost spay & neuter clinics everywhere and we still have animals overflowing the shelters.
The big difference is that horses cost many, many more dollars to ‘rescue’ than dogs & cats. So where is that $$ going to come from?
You know, all the car companies screamed like raped apes when the CA gov. put emission regs. in place back in the 80’s.
Yet (somehow) they found a way and still made a profit.
There are bills in the pike in several states to re-open processing plants using private inspectors that can slaughter any number of animals, and horses will be included.
Now, without ANY sort of regulation as to handling, how humane are they going to be?
For that matter, how humane is it to keep 21,000 mustangs in holding areas for years and years and years? Is this really a kindness to them?
Just 'cause something doesn’t die doesn’t mean it’s having a great life…
Sorry – I think we took the wrong road here and need to correct our course. Use all that political clout to improve what we had, not reinvent the wheel…
Again, just my opinion…[/QUOTE]
Who says there are no regulations re: handling or any other aspect of the slaughter process, from auction to knockbox? Any plant that is built or opens in this country will have to abide by the existing, still on the books cause slaughter still exists laws and regulations put on those books by the state and federal governments. Why do you think those magically went away, or am I again confusing what you wrote? They still exist, so have at it, open a plant and show us how humane you can insure it is done.
I think trying to force people to be responsible for their animals is going to be as or more effective than regulating the good ol’ boy slaughter industry and how roughshod it ran over anyone who tried to enforce regulations and laws concerning it, in the past.
I don’t mean to jump in just to nit pick, YES they do eat dog in China. My DH travels there for business and it is on the menu in every restaurant. And, we don’t ship it there because the American people are diametrically opposed to eating animals largely perceived as PETS here.
The plants I’m talking about will be using private inspectors, although I assume that will be for meat, not handling.
And you & I will just have to agree to disagree.
Look at history and you will see I’m correct though --
Many attempts have been made to “legislate” morality, which is what this boils down to. Few of them succeed. Again I have to point out our total failure in the small animal dept. and the large number of dog & cats who are euthanized even with education, spay/neuter clinics, etc.
I just think it is easier and more successful to regulate business than the private sector. If you are looking to ensure every horse ever born has a happy and kind life from foaling to the grave, well – that is simply not going to happen. That’s Disney, not Life.
If you don’t think horses are treated badly at rescues, or suffer then think again. The intentions may be great, but you know what they say about that road to Hell and what it’s paved with…
I think it makes much more sense to regulate AND ENFORCE higher standards at processing plants – at least then you have a product for all the $$ you spend.
Simply rescuing ALL the some 150,000 unwanted horses we have each year is throwing money down a rat hole…
First I though you hadn’t read for comprehension but because you do mention that the forms will be junk I’m not understanding your point. But to make it clear…
HOW WILL ANYONE KNOW THE HORSE HAD BUTE IF THE OWNER SIGNS A STATEMENT THAT STATES IT DIDN’T.
There is no way they will be testing every horse, Those tests take time to come back. The processing plant isn’t waiting around for lab results of they test at all.
What do papers have to do with anything? The 6 month vacation is if the medication history is unknown. And they won’t have an unknown med history.
And even if papers were required well you can buy papers for bay geldings cheap, really cheap.
