After reading the thread on e-bay 30 day return policy I am confuse as if I should use e-bay to sell my saddle or anything… I’ve always used e-bay to sell personal items and other horse stuff and never had any problems but I was unaware of this new policy.
A friend told me some people no longer accept pay-pal but only a certified check before sending out the saddle. I have a 100% rating on e-bay yet I don’t think I’d feel comfortable sending a stranger a check if i was buying something on e-bay?
So what are people doing now that e-bay seems to be a mess for the private seller?
Advice?
Nope nope nope to certified checks. They can easily be faked.
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I don’t sell via eBay, but I do use PayPal.
I just accept the 30 day return period, frankly. It’s in the terms and conditions, and this is the only payment form I know of that provides buyer protection. As a seller, I won’t take checks of any type, even in local sales, because they are problematic in every way.
And no savvy internet buyer will pay via a payment type that does not have some sort of buyer protection, because thieves have been using Venmo, Zelle, PayPal Friends and Family, etc., to defraud buyers for years; as a seller. If I want access to the most buyers, PayPal is pretty much it.
While I write my terms so that the return period is shorter than 30 days (and in some cases do not offer returns), the money for any sale over a certain amount sits in my account until the 30 days are up and the dispute period is past. If the buyer wants to return it, they will; PayPal is known to side with buyers in dispute cases. I just plan for that no matter what my terms say and accept the risk that I may have to eat shipping on an occasional sale.
But one way of putting it in perspective is that PayPal’s policy isn’t out of line with many credit cards. I can dispute “not as described” charges via my credit card, even if the vendor’s return policy is different, for 30 or 60 days (I forget which). And while it sucks that some people abuse the system, in general (and certainly as a buyer), I am in favor of having some level of consumer protection. So as a seller, I just accept that I have to work with an actual return period of 30 days and move on.
But if you really want to avoid the risk of forced buyer returns, you can always send the saddle out on commission or only go local/cash only. These are legitimate options, too.
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I used to sell saddles on eBay but won’t anymore. eBay is all about protecting buyers so someone can return your item as “not described” at their will. I still use Paypal. Mostly now I sell saddles through Facebook groups. Haven’t had any trouble yet.
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Ah I do not do social media for obvious reasons if you care about privacy and I’ve already been the victim of identity theft which took the NYT reporter to fix for me… My local tack shop takes 40% WOW and this saddle will sell fast as its one of a kind and almost new. It would sell immediately.
To bad about E-bay as I have been selling various personal items for years like a full set of china which i would never have done with a 30 day return policy. I thought the ratings system was supposed to protect against fraud .
Looks like old newspaper ads were the best way to sell things and now its all crooks or worse dangerous people like using local Craigs List.
Luckily I don’t need the money but its a shame to have these nice saddles wasting away as I no longer ride English .
Just spoke to a neighbor who sells guns, yes I live in the country. Anyway he says that gun web sites sellers only accept Postal money orders, never anything else.
So sellers whats wrong with that sounds good to me… or is that against E-bay policies?
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Yes, it’s against PayPal policies (except in some categories, which do not include tack), because it offers no buyer protection.
40% commission at your local tack store seems high. You might want to research other tack stores that take saddles on commission and find one with a lower % and similar brands/price point to your saddle. Many will accept saddles by mail. Just do your research and make sure there are no complaints against them from sellers not getting paid on time, etc.
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I’ve sold saddles on eBay with payment via PayPal and never had any issues. I just recently sold a few more horsey items. Maybe I’ve been lucky, but it has been fine.
I got sick of Facebook selling because there are too many flakes.
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Other than a few categories (and tack is not one of these), you are required to accept PayPal as a form of payment for eBay sales. You can also accept other forms if you’d like, but you are required to allow a buyer to use PayPal if they would prefer. Those who have said that the policies regarding returns and disputed transactions are not really out of line with other online retailers are correct - but the difference is that eBay / PayPal can and will force a refund even if the buyer returns a destroyed item or even the wrong item. If you were running your own ecommerce site you have more control over refunds for abusive returns.
The stories are ridiculous on the discussion boards on eBay - one legendary story is the scam buyer who returned a bag of used kitty litter rather than a printer.
Do bear in mind that who you hear stories from are the small percentage that transactions went badly for - the vast majority do not have any issues so long as the item is properly described.
@walkers60 if you’ve been selling a bit on eBay I wouldn’t worry endlessly about listing it - it’s usually the new accounts that have the most issues with scam buyers. It does depend a little on the value of the saddle, but other than local cash & carry or a consignment shop - there is really no way to protect yourself from a determined scammer.
eBay does not have a blanket 30 day return policy unless you are trying to retain your top rated seller discount. You can indicate no returns or a shorter return window on a listing, but a not as described dispute will override a no returns policy. I was successful a couple of years ago with a saddle sold on eBay that the buyer attempted to return but her emails showed that the issue was the fit (she bought my saddle that was adjusted for a 17H warmblood and wanted to use it on a 14 hand Welsh Cob without any adjustments). I got lucky and got a US based rep who understood about custom equipment.
Think about it this way - you are honest and would not be dishonest when buying a saddle online. I’ll bet your friends would not abuse it either. Most people are inherently honest.
I’ve sold two saddles over the past couple of years. One was a jumping saddle I left at Bevals where it sat for a year but I got my price.
The other was a dressage saddle that I sold through FB. Someone posted an ad looking for a certain model and I responded. We met at a show, the person reviewed it and we did the transaction there through paypal.
I would never bother with eBay because I don’t want to headache of problem buyers who aren’t honest.
The problem with this if you’re trying to avoid the headache is that unless you used friends & family on PayPal, you have still left yourself exposed to a “Not As Described” claim. Also - if you take PayPal for a local pickup you need to have the buyer sign a note stating that they picked it up in person, as you would not be able to provide proof of delivery if they claimed they never received it.
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Wow thanks for all the good information and I guess people just add the return cost to the selling price in case they get stuck with paying for a return .
Seems like to much hassle, really fed up with tech hassles so I guess this saddle will just stay in the garage till I get rid of everything. My horse days are close to coming to a end and then I’ll just have a huge farm/tack sale…
Thanks again.
You could have a friend sell on Facebook for you, if you have one who would be up to it, since you’re not into the social media thing. Arrange that they get a pre-determined cut or a flat fee once the saddle sells, and you can pick something appropriate but less than the 40% the tack shop wants. Most of what I’ve sold online has actually been on consignment for other people who didn’t want the hassle of taking photos, listing, and shipping.
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Yes, we did an email there to indicate exactly that.
If ebay has a 30 day return policy, what about things selling that specifically state “No Returns”, does the 30 return still apply even if the seller said no returns? I’ve never sold anything on ebay but have bought things, including a couple of saddles with no issues.
I think there is no way around the 30 day return policy . For example my saddle has a 31cm tree but I know it fits more like a 30cm as my other same brand saddle with 31cm fits my horse. Manufacturer said its because of the tree design being different. So I can see someone thinking it would fit because this is Stubben tree but its really fits smaller. I’ve learned that buyers rarely listen to advice so even though its perfect like new it could be returned. Aw to much trouble.
I like the Facebook suggestion but that also would be a hassle for a friend to do for me.
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The 30 day return policy is for “not as described” claims, not a general return policy. In theory, if the seller could prove the item was exactly as described, the seller would win the dispute and not have to take the return. The problem is that eBay/PayPal are notorious for siding with the buyer, which is how this loophole opened up for people to abuse the system and force a return even when the item was sold under a no returns policy and there’s nothing wrong with it.
But most people are not out there looking for ways to game the system and most buyers will abide by the seller’s return policy.
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It honestly depends. If a buyer were trying to return it saying “it doesn’t fit” - that should not be eligible to be returned via eBay if you stated no returns. But you need to get a decent rep on the phone who will actually read. A buyer can always claim “not as described” and that is the return reason that supersedes any no returns policy. Just because it fits more like a 30cm than a 31cm - so long as you listed it as a 31cm - that can’t be not as described reason.
Like I outlined earlier, I was able to avoid a return based on the fact that I had described properly, the buyer was not thinking when she bought for a totally different shaped horse.
It seems a bit harsh, but with something like a saddle with so many different permutations within the same manufacturer the onus should be on the buyer to have researched the model before buying on a site like eBay.
The issue with the not as described reason is that for anything that is not brand new, factory sealed, a buyer looking for a way out of a no returns policy (and also to avoid paying the return shipping) can always find a tiny flaw, mark or scratch that was not outlined in the listing. I tend to use phrases like “came from a working environment with associated wear” rather than describing each tiny flaw I find, which can help those claims. If I outlined a ton of flaws but skip one, I’ve opened myself up, if I take a ton of photos and leave it open ended, I have fewer issues.
I’ve sold a good number of high dollar saddles through Facebook that were paid for by PayPal and then shipped across the country. All ads and invoices included pictures with measurements. I have never had anyone be anything other than thrilled with what they purchased. (saddles always go out with a cover and after a deep clean and condition)
When I was looking for my last saddle, I bought a saddle that was supposed to have a 14 days return policy, but the buyer was supposed to pay shipping both ways. Not a big deal. It was a great price and a brand I wanted to try. Saddle was described as a wide tree with a 5" dot to dot measurement. Wonderful.
As soon as I got it out of the box, I knew it wasn’t a wide. I pulled out a tape measure… and it was 4" dot to dot. So a narrow… I sent the picture to the seller, and I told her it was clearly not the width she was advertising. She told me to “try it anyway” because it “fit larger”… not a full inch larger. In the end, I didn’t have to open a dispute. She acknowledged that she had measured incorrectly and the item was not as described. She paid the return shipping and refunded me the price of the saddle and the original shipping cost.
TL/DR: cover your basis. Get thorough measurements in the proper standard and include those with any invoices or product descriptions. If I had seen a picture of her 5" measurement, I would have immediately known to move on.
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I’ve sold three saddles on eBay over the years and had good experiences. PayPal only. Make sure you get confirmation of delivery and any flaws in the saddle you have Lear.y stated in description. Ship with support, like a stuffed box wrapped in bubble wrap under the saddle and lots of padding. The last saddle I sold at a used tack store and did not really like the experience.
