EAR PLUGS ?

[Janet]

There are lots of “devices” that are legal in one division, but not another.

Dropped (or flash, or figure 8)nosebands, standing martingales, gags, twisted bits, double bridles, bimetallic bits, elavator bits, long (dressage) whips, ear plugs, bandages, etc.

Every one of these (though I have my doubts about the twisted bits)has a legitimate training use. None the less, they are illegal in one or more disciplines. Why? I think it has more to do with history and politics than anything rational.

(For example, the objectives of Dressage, and the dressage phase of a Horse Trial, are very similar, but there are SIGNIFICANT differences in the permitted equipment. Why on earth should a dressage whip be legal for a dressage class, but not for a dressage test at a horse trial?)

Anybody trying to find a RATIONAL reason for any of these things is propably just wasting their time.

[Janet]

Moesha,

I do not have any major problems with ear plugs. Yes, they are an artifical device, but they are pretty benign.

I hope, however, that you would agree that a horse that doesn’t need them (like a horse that doesn’t need a martingale, or a dropped noseband, or a fancy bit) is a better trained horse than one that does.

What I DO have a problem with, is your attitiude that only people who are already completely embedded in the “A show hunter/jumper world” are entitled to express an opinion. This inward attitude “It’s OK because the IN people do it, and only the IN people are entitled to an opinion” is a contributing cuase of many things that are wrong with each of the disciplines (Dressage and CT as much as H/J).

Maybe if you maintianed a more open mind you might actually LEARN something from the Dressage, CT, Pleasure, and - yes- even Penning people.

You also seem to have totally missed the point of the “penning” post- that part of the training of ANY horse can include taking them to spectate at competitons in other disciplines for exposure to the environment. Someone else mentioned riding their horse in parades. The principle is the same.

[paw]

Hmm. I’m showing my age here, but I don’t recall horses going with “noise deadeners” at ‘A’ shows in the early '90s… As a matter of fact, I remember some controversy over the use of ear masks in (jumper) Grands Prix, for just this reason. But maybe that was the FEI?

FWIW, I agree with the “they’re an artificial aid” crowd…

[Twister]

I think we have also lost sight of the fact that horses are individuals. I wish I could remember who it was, but I remember seeing an actor who has TERRIBLE stage fright. Most of the time, doing something over and over again deadens one to the newness. Not this guy. Twenty years on the stage and he is still in a cold sweat every night.
I ‘trained’ a 14 year old childrens hunter who had been around every block in the park. As long as he was showing right along, all was well. Give him a month off from showing and it was as if he had never set foot on a showgrounds:spooking at the loose paper, cups, jumps, horses, you name it. He had to show in all the warmups just so all the spooks would be gone by the time his tiny child showed up for the week-end. Now, according to the trainer who showed him in the pre-greens and first years, he had improved somewhat over the last eight years.<g>
I agree that most of learning to horse show is just being AT the horse show, but not every horse is the same. I had a pony we used to pack the grain to and never do too many classes because she would be too lazy to keep getting up the lines. If she did the under saddle in an indoor arena, she had to have her ears stuffed or she’d be a runaway.
We are all smart enough to know every one of these beasts is an individual. If they’re not, why are there so few I can ride well?

[Bertie]

Wow, I can’t believe this thread is 3 pages long. A debate about the use of earplugs! As if their use could change a poorly trained or misbehaving horse into a winner. LOL! Yes Flash, I know of warmbloods that show with earplugs. Do they need them? I don’t think any horse NEEDS them. They don’t make that much of a difference.

Maybe we should start a debate about the use of fly spray at horse shows! I’m sure some of you that train the spook out of your horses could train your horses not to react to flies while in the ring… while the rest of us poor excuses for horsemen have to resort to something as artificial as spray.

Sorry – I just can’t believe that people are condemning the use of ear plugs!

[jch]

We have shown some horses/ponies with ear plugs and some without. Just like people, each horse is different and each has its own needs and preferences. Often horses that are just learning about the show world find there are just too many things happening at the same time. Ear plugs let them focus attention away from outside sounds. That doesn’t mean they will always need them, but it sure is nice for those that like to shut out the noise of tractors, clapping or mopeds!

[Moesha]

If Stuffing eras is illegal than half of the horses out there would be disqualified at shows.

[inthesaddle]

Ok as stated earlier I’m a dressage rider AMAZED at the # of hunters using earplugs.

Dressage is all about submission, obedience, relaxation etc… Someone asked how judges treat a horse being fresh in the corners etc… Well that depends on the horse and the infraction.

Basically the way a dressage test is laid out for scoring purposes each required movement gets a score. In other words if you are to make a 20 meter circle in trot at C that is all placed in 1 box on the test score sheet and ONLY that movement receives a score - not the trot leading up to the 20 meter circle, not what happens afterward, ONLY the circle counts. Sort of like in jumpers - nothing matters except the fence itself.

Now comes the sticky part. At the bottom of the test sheet there are “collective” marks. This gives the judge the opportunity to score the “over-all IMPRESSION” of the test. There is a score given for Submission (here’s where you’ll lose pt’s for those bucks, spooking, and the like)

So the long and the short of it are that dressage is still very subjective and if you make an over-all good impression on the judge and you have a little spook in the corner or a little buck into the canter it is not likely you will be DRAMATICALLY penalized. However, when it gets up to the international level any small bobble can cost you a top placing.

[luckyduck]

I would like to address one more thing. I can see ear plugs taking a bit of spook out of a horse…but In my opinion…I would think that would make it worse…spooking is a different issue then a schooling ring with a dozen trainers screaming and kids hollering and a young horse trying to deal with all of this AND “listin” to his rider… Maybe I should have been clear…we don’t use them for “spook” issues…actually our trainer says the “spook” in a horse is part of his charm…use it (the spook) instead of trying to punish it…any way…we actually use the plugs to soften their exsposure in the schooling ring…occasionally we have to show one in them…whatever…I just wanted to be sure you all understood what i was saying…
No one needs to put on their protection vests…part of learning and changing is talking with everyone like this…no one is supposed to agree completly…stop and think about what everyone has learned from these boards.

[system]

As the owner of a horse whose personality come through in the show ring, I wish that the judging criteria could be changed. I ,too , long for the days of outside courses & handy hunter classes.I just wonder if I would now pe penalized for putting 18 stridesin a line on the outside course instead of 20. And ,no, it would not be from extreme speed. my horse has an obscenely long stride- Luckyduck & Ben & Me could attest to that! I have t WHOA down ALL the lines, even going at a slow canter. Fortunately, Seinfeld also has a very elastic stride-compliments of 3 hard years of gymnastis & flatwork. I can say, though, that our rounds would be much more flowing if it were OK to do 7 instead of 8 strides. It would be beautiful- and safe. As far as earplugs go- I use them on some & not on others . I have 2 that thought boogers were going to sneak up on them & they could not hear them. Oh, well. Seinfeld may look funny at a crooked flower box, but could care less if a bomb went off under him. Most of the others are just the opposite. Nothing will change with the prepping of horses until the judging changes. So, don’t hold your breath. BTW, I own a tack shop & we always ell out of all the types of earplugs, and calming supplements. Thank you , judges.

[inthesaddle]

Good post Janet. I just found out that tail bandages are illegal in the warm up area at a dressage show!!! BTW I also found out (reading my rule book for pleasure one night - god, I have to get a life ) that a running martingale is legal (with a snaffle only) in the warm up arena at a dressage show. I swear it’s in the rule book!!!
I’ve always thought the rule about dressage whips not being allowed in championship classes is ridiculous! You can use your whip all year long to get all of the scores you need to go to championships and then can’t use it in the arena?!?!? Why is that logical - I’m sure somewhere, somehow, someway, someone can make a case for it.

[Ben_and_Me]

A penning show actually seems like a good place to take a young/green horse because it is much more exciting. And, most hunters and jumpers have never come in contact with a cow! If they can deal with a cow, then whats a scary oxer? Hehe!

[SueL]

When Devildog takes her horse team penning she is desensitizing him/her to strange stimuli. The point in all this is to make the horse less reactive/more confident in different environments. What you accomplish by exposing the horse to weird stuff is that you don’t need to expose the horse to every single weird sound, sight, smell he or she will run into at the shows in order to get a good performance. It is an effective training method. You can do a lot of this at home by exposing your horse to different situtations. Training is not just about circles, transitions and gymnastics (note please that I did not include stirrupless work for you juniors in this list - that of course falls under the category of “it’s character forming” ) it is also about modifying the horse’s “hardwired” reactions (well, heck they’re prey!) to accomodate the demands we humans put upon them.

I think sometimes we neglect that part of training. It is often (superficially!) more efficient to use gimmicks than to do such habituation. But desenitization is a fun thing to do with your horse and if you’re careful and use incremental steps rather than flooding the horse with stimuli (a method best left to experts IMO) you may find that your sensitive wimp is a lot braver and more reliable than you ever thought possible.

I’m not gonna give dressage afficiandos a halo in this thread. IMNSHO the flash noseband cranked tight with a girth tightener =:-O is one helluva lot more influential on the horse’s performance than a pair of “bunny butts” (whose effect is probably an equal measure of placebo on the rider’s nerves - "what ferris wheel? he can’t hear no stinkin’ ferris wheel!) But yet they are legal in dressage competion (well not adjusted like that I suppose) while not so in the hunter ring.

Go out and play with your horses.

[Black_Market_Radio]

I too had an OTT TB, and he too reacted to other horses running up behind him UNTIL I worked with him in lot’s of different situations and places. He used to take off running with me in U/S classes, and what did I do? I took him to clinics, I rode in group lessons where my instructor would use the loudspeaker to talk to us, I took him everywhere and exposed him to everything. I know not all barns are as well equipped as that one is, and I don’t board there anymore but I still take my new horse out and about to get her used to stuff. It can be done, and I agree with pwynn that it is a suitability thing. Horses get used to their environment. They are not like a stage frightened human, they are condition/response creatures. The point to cross-referencig dressage and their rules about ear plugs is not to say dressage is better, but that if the dressage horses can cope with the sights, sounds and noises, and yes, the multiple rings going on and the crowded warm up areas, if police horses can have fire crakers explode at their feet and not spook, and be in crowds where riots are happening, then why do certain hunter’s HAVE to have earplugs? I believe that a horse with earplugs should not be pinned over a horse without earplugs. Because to me, it’s plain and simple, black and white. The horse with the cleanest round with the least amount of gadgets should win over a similar round maybe a little better but only because they had cotton in the ears. I would be really upset if after all the hard work I did training my horse to be the best he can be without ANY gadgets, but because my horse may have pricked an ear over a sound but the horse with earplugs won over me because it didn’t prick it’s ear. And as I stated before I don’t use gadgets on my horse, she goes in a dee ring bit and a LOOSE flash noseband. No martengales, side reins, draw reins or anything. But I am training my horse to listen to ME and concetrate on ME and not what is going on everywhere else. As a result when I took her to that :gasp: team penning competition and worked her in another arena, she started to focus on me and what I was doing, and if she lost her focus I would make her get right back with me. No hesitation. Stimulus, response.

[Louise]

LOL Bertie, I just got a mental flash of trying to teach either one of my horses not to react to flys. Talk about getting the “What are you, nuts” look from them.

I have been wondering what good stuffing something in a horses extremely sensitive ears is going to do. My suspicion is that it is an aid for the rider more than the horse. Rider thinks “My horse’s ears are stuffed so he can’t hear all of those awful noises.” Rider relaxes. Horse relaxes because rider isn’t tense. Horse goes better.

I stated this earlier, I’m going to restate it. Jennifer Alcott quoted AHSA rules prohibiting the use of artificial appliances, (appliances, devices, same thing different words, one just sounds a little better). She also stated that a call to the AHSA lead to an individual there stating that ear plugs are illegal. While I agree that they seem to be a fairly benign thing, I question, along with Pwynn, where you draw the line, and, who determines where that line will be drawn? I have yet to see that addressed. If you use ear plugs, knowing that they are illegal, because you think they help you win, it, IMHO, then becomes easier to justify moving to the next harsher appliance, and the next, etc., because, after all, they may help you win also. The point, it would seem to me, would be to win, while staying within the rules, thus keeping the playing field level for all participants.

[J_Turner]

There are so many unnatural sights and sounds at horse shows that I don’t thinks hunters should remain answerable to, like golfcarts, ferris wheels (Devon), popping,crackling loudspeakers, echoing applause (indoors), etc. These are hunters, right? Except for an occasional tractor, car, and defintely lots of dogs (or other “natural” hunting field sounds), ought they be 100% answerable to these sounds? For Gods sake, they aren’t posing as parade horses!!!

[brilyntrip]

as a judge and trainer I have to say the use of ear plugs is fine with me I also don’t care if they are cotton and vivsible ,some horses are really sensitive to sound s and with the advent of all the extraniuos(sp) stuff at shows and the sound system sometimes having an actual charge thru the horse at shows (I mean it one of my students horses hates a particular show grounds due to sound system)if itmeans that i dont have to lunge them or ride themin to the ground its better for them right?

[inthesaddle]

Moesha,

I don’t think anyone here has found out if it is legal or illegal for H/J’s. It is however, forbidden for dressage. It is listed under saddlery and equipment in the dressage section of the AHSA rule book. I’ll try to get to the AHSA page and paste it for you but I know for sure it is there because I looked yesterday when the whole question came up. I looked for it in the h/j section and couldn’t find a place where it states specifically “ear-plugs” as it does in the dressage section.

I too get sick of dressage folks thinking they are the only good horse people on the planet (and I ride dressage)but I do have to say in my experience there are a lot of methods used in other disciplines (not just HJ) that are questionable.

Will earplugs kill a horse, probably not unless he eats them but isn’t it possible to teach a horse to stay calm in various situations without artificial aids?

[inthesaddle]

Well I guess it really comes down to who you are and what you are trying to accomplish. I have one horse - I don’t chase points - and I always try to remember this is supposed to be fun!!!

I’m not a trainer, don’t have to make my living from buying, selling, or showing horses so it entitles me to take all of the time I need to train my horse.

I think it’s unfortunate any time we lose site of what we are trying to accomplish. I think people who choose to make a living with horses have to make tough decisions and are MAYBE (read that as I DID NOT SAY EVERY TRAINER IN THE WHOLE WORLD) more likely to tread into gray areas.

We have all seen horrible things done to horses to try to make a dollar. We have all witnessed abuse and unethical behaviour. Do earplugs fall into that category? I really can’t say - I don’t see them as abusive - IMHO I see them as a short cut that is not in the best interest of the horse or the owner.

I don’t think it’s HORRIBLE!!! Like using cattle prods and nerve lines.

[Moesha]

An Ear Stuffer does nothing to make the horse perform in any way different, except that it dulls the noises that may interfere with his way of going. This is not “artificializing” anything about the horses natural style. Hunters and jumpers have to compete in very artificial settings, Downtown Washington ,Manhattan ,collesiums,and bleachers full of spectators who do not realize their noise or distracting behavior can effect a horse as he comes up to a triple combination only feet away from them. I have seen many horses that have there ears stuffed not even flinch as the wind blows down a jump next to the one they are about to jump or bat an eye as a dog runs across the ring in front of them, obviously these horses are suitable and well mannered, but loud “unseen” noises and echoes can effect a horses differently then “spooky” things they can actually see. Horses do get used to things and we all want well mannered horses that are a pleasure to ride without an abundance of artificial aids, but these little cotton stuffers should not cause such an uproar.