EAR PLUGS ?

Re: Wild Children

The parents are sitting in the bleachers right next to them or are nowhere to be found! I have heard of parents leaving the young kids with the older sibling who is also showing! Sad isn’t it…Especially when a trainer finally gets sick of it and then yells at the kids. Of course, Kiddie goes crying to Mommy, and Mommy yells at trainer. Maybe if Mommy had been more responsible and hired a babysitter…

Its also pretty bad when groups of people will sit on the front row and rattle that plastic right as you jump down that line, not 5’ away from the plastic! Maybe we should issue a book on horse show etiquette…

Janet, you are ridiculous to state that a horse that goes in one form of equipment is better trained than another. Horses go in various pieces of equipment because of the effects they create on the horses performance. AND Yes this is a hunter/jumper board so like I stated different disciplines allow and train with different devices so those that ride in one should be careful when condemming the practice of another. And this is the hunter/jumper bulletin board, if you have such serious disagreements with the way show horses are turned out and you ride in a different discipline than you have no right to attack people over their training techniques, of which I could hardly call cotton ear stuffers a technique since it cannot make your horse sound, more flexible, jump higher, mover better, etc. And you are closed minded to find fault in my expressing my opinion. I’m sorry but the majority of “negative” and “holier than thou” attitudes towards hunters and jumpers has come form riders in other disciplines. I find it funny you recommended MY Trainer under the post by Northeast looking for a trainer in Middleburg, I ride in Middleburg, and my trainer uses ear stuffers all the time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:

…that part of the training of ANY horse can include taking them to spectate at competitons in other disciplines for exposure to the environment. Someone else mentioned riding their horse in parades. The principle is the same.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said earlier, I have no doubt that riding my 17H OTT TB (who has also pinned in some nice rated shows) in parades has made him a better horse. Yes, he has a calm disposition. Yes, I can put my non horsey husband on him in a western saddle & trail ride for two hours without wondering whether I will be cashing in the life insurance policy. And yes, for the past year & and a half of training with a well known judge & trainer, the horse stopped at a fence a total of one time. Does he need a martingale, flash noseband, or earplugs? No. Would I use them if I felt they would enhance his performance? Maybe. Is one way better than other? That’s why they make Vanilla & Chocolate in one package.

Hear, hear, Devildog!!! Well put.

The practice of placing cotton in your horse’s ears has been discussed on the nerve line thread. Looks as if the topic needs its own thread. Any other stewards wish to comment? How about the judges out there? We all know plenty of horses who are shown with those fuzzy color-coordinated “bunnies” (is that what you call them?) inside their ears. I don’t have a problem with it. I think most judges don’t have a problem with it. Is it “legal?” I’ve got an e-mail into the AHSA and will let you know if I receive a concrete answer.

This thread has 2 parts – The first part is Laura’s question in the very first post: Are ear plugs allowed or not? I’ve yet to see a horse eliminated for using earplugs, but if they’re not allowed, let us know, and we won’t use them. – And if they’re not allowed, I would wonder if gel-pads are allowed for horses with sensitive backs…

The second part is the part of this discussion that baffles me – turning this into a moral and ethical question of horsemanship is, IMO, ridiculous!!!

[This message has been edited by Bertie (edited 04-15-2000).]

I can see why some people would think that stuffing cotton balls down a horse’s ears is questionable (assuming cotton balls are the type of cotton that you guys are talking about?)

What I do is get a black sponge (yes, they do make such things and they are sold at most drug stores) since my horse is dark-coloured, rip it in half, and stuff half down each ear.

Tequila is very young and already has a short attention span - it’s so much easier for him to focus on me if some of the ruckus going on around him is deadened a bit. It’s not like they make him go completely deaf - it just makes the noises more of a “background noise” rather than an “up-in-your-face sound”. Make sense? I think that’s why most people use them. I’ve never had a problem with my horse being head shy. Usually right after I put the plugs in, he shakes his head once or twice, and then he’s fine.

I posted my thoughts on ear plugs on the nerve line thred…I didn’t see this one before I did it…anyway…as soon as anyone finds out if they are leagal or not…please let me know…the pony my daughter shows wears them…not because she’s spooky or “hears” things…they just keep her from being distracted.

On this one I vote with wicky, pwynn and ccorinos. If the ideal hunter is “dead but beautiful,” then some people will use earplugs, some will lunge for hours and some will resort to even less savory methods because the dead quiet ones win.

If, however, things were like they were when I first started showing in the hunters as a young teenager (mid 70s), some classes would be run on outside courses, the courses wouldn’t always be the same, handy hunter classes would still exist, striding might differ from one horse to another without penalties being incurred, and ‘brilliance’ wouldn’t be so severely penalized.

Hunters were more fun to ride and more fun to watch when there was some variety.

BTW, I too am curious about how dressage judges score for freshness, etc.

Sorry, In The saddle, you are wrong on how dressage scores are given. Tests are divided into movements. The intervals leading up and away from a movements are scored within the movement. So A, enter trot- X halt salute - proceed trot , gets 1 score ; for the enter center line the transitions, halt and trot after the halt. next move, turn off the center line to the circle at “B” will get another score; not only for the circle but for the trot to the “B” marker and after, and for the quality of the corners.

Quality of bending through the corners is where many riders loose points on their tests. The hardest part for a lot of novice riders to get is to who to ride the whole test, not just the movements. There are a few movements that get a score for just the corner, I think one is in the GP Special.

Any disruption of the horse before or after a specific movement is judged within that movement box.

Most judges have a half way point where they consider one movement over and the next one starting. This is usually the center line, corner or through “X”. Sometimes movements blend one to the next, such as the 2nd level shoulder in /circle /haunches in exercise. Three scores. Sometimes a score box will include several “movements” that only get one score.

The horse is being judged from the moment it enters A and until the salute at the end. I saw a FEI rider enter at A and get eliminated after 2 steps because she forgot to drop her whip ( when they could not carry them)

Behavior problems are weighed differently. The rules spell it out. Young ( training level) horses are usually permitted a minor “behavior” waver. Some will look out of the ring during the halt, some might shy at the judges booth the first time past. Judges are permitted to “ignore” a minor booboo. If they become persistant with in the test, however, points will come off within the movement score and below the line under the submission score and sometimes under the riders score.

Major blow ups, esp on a more advanced horse will not be tolerated. Any delay of progress of 20 seconds is cause for elimination. Once a horse is out of training level shys, spooks, loss of attention and other misbehaviors that are not obviously with reasonable cause ( that dog that ran into the ring, the judges booth door that blew open) are not well thought of. Points will be lost in submission.

Judges have the power to stop a test if a major disruption out side the ring causes disturbance to the horse. This happens rarely. When it does it is usually a loose horse cannoning around.

Like luckyduck, I have a horse that came from the track. A YEAR after her last race, she is still exhibiting some of the ill effects of 4 years at the track. I stuff her ears because she is very sensitive about horses coming up behind her. She thinks: horses coming up behind me = I am being caught up with = jockey is going to whip me! The first month I had her, I can’t even tell you how many times she darn near shot out from underneath me!! Stuffing her ears has made such a big difference in her behavior and maybe some day she will be able to go without them, but for right now I see NO problem with stuffing her ears! If “earbunnies” will help her have a positive experience at a horse show then I plan to use them.

To the dressage people who think this is such a gasp horrible practice, have you ever been to an A3 horse show??? It is not unusual for four rings to be running side by side at the same time! Which means, a jumper 30 feet away could pull a rail in the combination while your hunter is supposed to be cantering softly down a line like butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth!!! You have to warm up in tiny, crowded schooling areas, loud speakers are crackling, trailers coming and going etc. It is very chaotic and can be daunting for even the most seasoned horse. Stuffing a horses ears merely deadens the sound, trust me, they can still hear.

I guess at the end of the day, it all comes back to how the hunters are judged. If small displays of exuberance will continue to be penalized, then people will keep doing what they have to do to make their horses win. All I know is that a “true” hunter that is overly tired is a danger in the field. When I go foxhunting in Ireland, it is not unusual to change horses 2 or 3 times a day!! A common piece of advice heard out hunting is, “keep his head up, he is getting tired”! Or “keep a hold of his head until you can get a fresh horse”. A horse cantering around with his head dragging on the ground is not something that I want to ride in the ring or in the field. Just my opinion…

I am really glad that the different divisions having different rules has been brought up. This is why things become confused. One discipline may allow one thing and another forbids it. We have to be sure to look at the discipline and if the “practice” is allowed. There are too many people with GREAT ideas and knowledge that people should just relax and not become old ninnysarouses running around finding fault in everything and using shields of superiority to deflect difference that should be heard and understood in order to educate ourselves better. Ear stuffers are not used in any devious way. We see enough blatant deviousness that we should emphasize cruel and abusive and truly ilegal and cheating tactics, because we all know there is an abundance of that. We want to enhace our horses potential and competitiveness as much as possible, but if those enhancements are legal and are only an aide to hard work and training then it is fine.

Thanks to those of you who GOT the point of my post and thanks for sticking up for me! Yes, there is ALOT of excitment at those penning shows! Chloe was very nervous at first but she calmed down and I took her to another arena and worked her, and she did very well considering she had never been to an environment like that! I know horses can act differently away from the barn, I board in a huge valley with tons of wide open spaces and there are only 4 horses where she is, but I have a friend with a trailor and we both like to get our horses out and doing stuff. I like to go train at shows, heck, I am taking her to h/j shows to school there too! it’s not the DISCIPLINE but the EXPERIENCE that I take her for.

1 Like

I use ear plugs on my hunter in the flat classes.He is a tatooed TB,which means he was gate started,that is by Mr.Prospector-so I guess if he had raced well he’d be still be a stud.Anywho,over fences he places first consitantly,but u/s he’d be so disturbed by the other horses passing him,coming up behind him,etc. that he’d really start acting up.Finally we tried earplugs and now he is getting firsts in the flat classes as well, got to love those dressage lessons also
Anyways,I guess I am agreeing with most people on this post-it depends on the horse and I see no problem with using ear plugs in a conventional manner(not overusing-I only use them on my guy in flat classes because that’s all he needs them for).
Hope this doesn’t sound like a bunch of jibberish,
Leslie

Dressage is different than hunters, obviously. I can understand why ear plugs wouldn’t be legal in dressage. Your horse must be totally submissive and obediant to the aids. While this is partially true with the hunters, a good hunter, while rateable, "takes you to the fence. There is more decision-making power delegated to the horse in jumping, therefore giving the horse more opportunity to observe the world around him. While the ultimate hunter would not spook at anything in the field, and would be aware of all that goes on around him (other horses, footing, hounds, the jumps), the artificial environment of horse shows, especially indoor horses is more the test of a parade horse or police horse! Also, the rider does have a degree less control galloping around the ring in a half seat or modified half seat than a collected canter in a full dressage seat.

Folks, does this make any sense?

Thanks for being so proactive on this issues, Laura! I am very interested to hear your reply from the AHSA. This is the first I have ever heard anything about ear stuffing being illegal. I just can’t imagine it to be true since so many people do this. Again, thanks for jumping on this. I look forward to reading what you find out.

We use earplugs on most of our horses, and we show the A circuit all over FL. We dont use the rubber ones, just the Brown fuzzies. It is a great help. My horse could go w/o them, but having that little extra help keeping his attention is great. You have to admit there are so many things that go on and big horse shows earplugs are a lifesaver. It would be stupid for them to be illegal.

So, my hunter friends, tell me please: why do you suppose ear plugs are OK to you, but not to dressage riders? THAT’s why I criticize their use. Call me a purist, but to me, your sport is too willing to cut corners instead of taking the time others sports take to develop the horse.

[I guess I’ve just missed being dissed. It’s been a while since I posted offensive stuff.]

A dressage horse has to be obedient to the aids, to the point of focussing on the rider, not on what is going on around it. That’s not to say that that always happens, watch any dressage show and you’ll see plenty of spooks and inattention. However, anything artificial, that lessens the ability of the animal to be able to focus on outside interferance, acts as a crutch to the rider. The rider does not have to exhibit the skill and training necessary to handle the situation, were the outside interferences not artificially blocked.

Podhajsky(sp) stated in one of his books that, during WWII, they had to move the stallions from the Riding School to another facility, because of the danger. There was no transport available, so the horses had to be ridden, through all the noise and confusion of a war torn city. He was, of course, very worried that these horses, used to a stable environment as they were, would be panic stricken. However, due to their training, and the skill of the riders, they were able to move these animals with no problems, the horses focussed totally on their riders, as they would have done in any other situation.

That, I think, is why Pwynn is saying that there is no substitute for training. What if something unusual happens? You better have the skills, and your horse better have the training, to be able to deal with it, used to it or not.

Forgive me, Pwynn, if I am misinterpreting.

Oh, I do love these lively threads!

Moesha, reallly! You said: “…to make a sweeping generalization on the training methods of the country’s hunters and jumpers over a $.05 piece of cotton that cannot enhance a horses jumping ability or style or help him become a better mover is ridiculous.”

EXCUUUUUUSE ME? Are not hunters judged on MANNERS AND SUITABILITY as well? Is not freaking out when dirt hits the wall irrelevant to manners? Is accepting a variety of noisy, busy, DISTRACTING circumstances irrelevant to the traits of a good hunter?

Granted, hunters are hardly the only horse industry that chooses to redefine rather than re-examine and re-emphasize its roots. I’ve said it before, but I’ll repeat that, IMO, hunters and eq are going the same way that western pleasure and gaited/park horses have gone: totally divorced from reality.

And I’d like to thank all the people who also don’t hesitate to state their opinions frankly, on both sides of this issue.