luckyduck, you have very legitimate points and concerns re: showing hot-off-the-track TBs. Which, basically, are the same as mine. I guess our differences lay in the fact that when I was training, I never was involved (by choice) in buying HOTT TBs. I understand that trainers are often stuck between a rock and a hard place - either financially needing to get newbies out and sold or to please owners. My methods would be exactly as yours - only I would try to recreate show atmosphere at home and then, when taking to a show, stick to “getting accustomed” to the grounds until the horse relaxed and was comfortable without such things as earbunnies… which creates additional costs… which is why I never bought HOTT TBs that I needed to turn over quickly…
I don’t know what the answer is - and I’m very glad that I’m behind a camera now, instead of in the midst of all this!
Whenever I take a horse somewhere or do anything with it, i do everything in my power to make that experience a good one, and avoid anything that could scare my horse or make him nrevous. INCLUDING putting ear plugs in his ears for the 1st 2 years of showing. I board my horse and I don’t have a trailer. So i am somewhat limited in being able to take my horses places to school him. And no matter how good a horse is at home, he may be totally different somewhere else. At first, you take your horse to a schooling show and walk him in hand. If he is good, lunge him. If he is still good, ride him. If he is such an angel, show him. AFter doing this for several months, you get a pretty good feel for how he reacts in strange places. What you do not want to do is push him so hard you have a battle with him at the show grounds. A piece of cotton does not do what tranquilizers do, and only dulls one sense, hearing. The horse still has eyes and a nose and can feel and react just like an unplugged horse. Getting a horse to be quiet and workmanlike in a strange place can take a really long time, even with a really good trainer and rider. If putting a little cotton in his ears brings down his anxiety level, your horse will be that much more relaxed and receptive to learning.
Ok, I am not even going to go there on what you said about horses in training devices… BUT, I am not closed minded. Far from it. Just because I don’t agree that ear plugs are a good thing does not make me closed minded. You bashing me for taking my horse to a penning competition and how dare I suggest a mere schooling show made \for the rest of us mere mortals IS closed minded. You are the one with the holier than thou attitude, and I like a lot of the ideas expressed on this board. I guess that makes me a closed minde ninnysaraus. Out of curiosity Moesha, How old are you?
[This message has been edited by devildog20 (edited 04-14-2000).]
Originally posted by Moesha:
“… Will someone please post the actual rule prohibiting them???”
Actually, Moesha, I’ve done that TWICE. Once in the nerve line thread, and once on the first page of this thread. (See my post of 4/13/00 at 8:46 a.m. on this thread and try reading for comprehension this time.) The rule quoted to me by an AHSA employee as being pertintent to the use of earplugs is Article 319.2, which covers artificial appliances. This rule falls under the category of “General Rules”, not under a specific breed/discipline , and therefore, I assume, applies to ALL AHSA rated shows–hunter/jumper, Arabian, Morgan, etc.
If you don’t believe me, or think that the AHSA employee that I talked to was wrong, then why don’t you call the AHSA yourself and ask them? And DO please let us know what they say! In fact, I wish that EVERYONE arguing either for or against the use of earplugs, and whether or not they’re permitted, would do so! Perhaps that would settle the question once and for all of whether or not they are prohibited at AHSA rated shows. Oh, but wait…then I guess those people that DO use them would have to either stop using them, or risk getting caught…I suppose ignorance is bliss. Personally, I did what I thought was right: When someone told me that they weren’t allowed, I called the AHSA, asked them, and then refrained from using them when an AHSA employee told me that they were not permitted. But perhaps that’s too much to ask of everyone.
I really don’t mean to get snippy over this, but how many times to I have to post the actual rule that was quoted to me? And how long are people going to argue about this before they pick up the phone and call the AHSA themselves? It only took about 5 minutes of my time, and I consider it time well spent.
Now as to whether or not earplugs SHOULD or SHOULDN’T be allowed…well that’s a separate issue unto itself, and I suppose that could be argued into infinity.
Maybe I’ll be less cranky after I have some more caffeine this morning… 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
I hate the self righteous attitude of some of the posts on this topic, and to make a sweeping generalization on the training methods of the country’s hunters and jumpers over a $.05 piece of cotton that cannot enhance a horses jumping ability or style or help him become a better mover is ridiculous. Will someone please post the actual rule prohibiting them???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I believe that are only prohibited on certain “spiteful” chestnuts!!!
Can’t wait to hear - no pun intended. I am a dressage rider and the use of ear plugs is specifically forbidden in dressage (check the rule book).
I’ve groomed a few times at H/J shows and am always suprised at the number of horses who go with ear plugs.
I was not justifying the use of “aids” in other disciplines, I said I don’t use any gimmicks or shortcuts to train my horse. Is it frustrating? At times, yes it is! But in my lesson today my mare was being so awesome and all the hard work I have put into taking the extra time to train her classically and not use any quick fixes is paying off. I strongly disagree with draw reins and would not use them, the same with side reins that are too tight. Is if I were to lunge in side reins, they would be VERY loose and just enough for the horse to feel contact when she stretches down. I don’t like to see dressage horses cranked into frames as much as anyone. I am not advanced enough in dressage to address the double bridle issue, but I have used one on my old GP schoolmaster, but he already traveled in “self carriage” and so the slightest rein cues were all that were needed, no cranking or pulling, but quiet, subtle hands. And comparing a double bridle to ear plugs is a little odd because the double bridle is required in upper lever dressage, ear plugs are not a required thing. And a double bridle or flash caveson do nothing to inhibit a horses senses in any way. If the horse still shows “personality” and it “hardley affects them” then why are they used at all? I still stand strong to my opinion on how the horse with the least amount of gimmicks should win, even down to the ear plugs. I don’t condemn it just because it is forbidden in my sport either. If it was allowed or if hunters was my main discipline, I STILL would have the same opinions. I do not jump on bandwagons. And I am still waiting ti hear from the AHSA. Why don’t those of you who question the answer that someone called in and got pick up the phone yourselves or e-mail them and find out for yourselves? I e-mailed them and I intend to call right now and get an immediate answer. I will re-post in a few.
We commonly used a square cut off the end of a black polo wrap as an ear plug.
I have a question about dressage scoring before I can really consider Pwynn’s question (good for you Pwynn for not being intimidated to ask such questions!). How do dressage judges deal with “behavior issues” that would count against hunters such as head play as someone else mentioned, or being a little “fresh” in the corners, etc.?
I think when it comes to today’s hunters, some judges will score any display of “personality” as harshly as true behavior faults like spooking or bolting. This may account for the increase we’ve seen in ear plugs. My horse will not allow 'em near him so we just resign ourselves to being more “brilliant” than the average hunter!! (Yeah right, LOL)
At home, we hang flags from our arena, play the radio, encourage the dogs to play, set up an umbrella now and again etc… etc… to try to get the horses used to dealing with things. As a dressage rider, a BIG part of the training is about getting the horse to CONCENTRATE on his/her job. I constantly try to put my horse in situations that will help his self confidence - trail riding, crossing water, hand walking him within earshot of strange noises etc. I always laugh when someone inadvertently spooks my horse by doing something like sneezing - and then apologizes profusely!! The way I look at it is if the horse can’t deal with a sneeze he’s a danger to me and everyone around me. The more spooky things he’s exposed to the better.
I want to make it clear that this stimulation does not make my horse a basket case. I’ve had 3 OTTB’s and now have a QH - they have all learned to cope. I must admit one of my TB’s was a tougher case and would sometimes jump out of his skin for no apparent reason but that same energy - when I could channel it - made him FABULOUS!!!
[This message has been edited by inthesaddle (edited 04-13-2000).]
SPOOKING? He’s not spooking, he’s trying to SAVE YOU from that horrible thing trying to get you! You should thank him for looking out for you!
How on earth can you recreate a show atmoshphere at home! I would love to see someone try to recreate Ocala at their barn an entire area of shops, car and trailer dealers, 8 rings several schooling rings a highway people all over the place giant water trucks about 5,000000 golf carts -Ridiculous!
Devildog, This is ridiculous Penning competitios! What on earth are you talking about The horses from our barn are in the National, Zone, and State standings we do all of the A shows in our Zone and Florida in the winter so please do not tell me that the ones that wear ear stuffers need to go to schooling shows maybe you should go to a A show and see how it is done, obviously you have no clue and this is starting to get tiresome. Sorry if it seems that I don’t want to hear your opinion but if you do not show hunters and jumpers maybe you should keep your opinions to the disciplines you do. Obviously people who have no clue about how to turn out A quality hunters and jumpers can type critical and useless comments and hide behind self righteous and smug statements. Instead of talking about pleasure classes and penning and dressage this discussion needed to focus on Ear plugs in the hunter jumper world.
Devil Dog, I’m not going to respond to your RUDE statements. I barrel raced in 4-h, was a C pony clubber and tried vaulting the same year I qualified for the National medal finals and my large pony and junior hunter for indoors. So please do not call me closed minded. I have my opinion like you have yours.
Moesha, my “rude” remarks came after YOUR rude, stuck up comments. Why do I think your stuck up?
“Devildog, This is ridiculous Penning competitios! What on earth are you talking about The horses from our barn are in the National, Zone, and State standings we do all of the A shows in our Zone and Florida in the winter so please do not tell me that the ones
that wear ear stuffers need to go to schooling shows maybe you should go to a A show and see how it is done, obviously you have no clue and this is starting to get tiresome.”
Now, I don’t know about you, but that sounds rude and stuck up to me. Just because I don’t agree with something and I have a different view on something does NOT make me ignorant and does NOT mean I have never been to an A show or anything like that. You totally missed the point of my post. My point was not team penning, but EXPOSURE. My first post was my opinion, and I in no way personally attacked you and then you made me seem like I was smoking crack for even SUGGESTING that horses should go to OTHER competitions besides A shows because heaven forbid they were NATIONAL. In fact, it wasn’t until later that you said you took your pony to barrel racing! Well, I find nothing wrong with that, but then you should not attack me for going to a penning competition! I was not the one who started out rude here, I stated my opinion and you lashed out hard at me. I am not going to change your opinion and You are not going to change mine, and I really don’t care. But I am allowed to show my opinion as much as you are allowed to show yours so let’s leave it at that. I may have used your name in my original quote, but it was not meant to personally attack YOU. I was disagreeing with what you SAID. On another note, I am e-mailing the AHSA right now and I will post their response. If it’s legal, I still don’t agree with it but hey it’s a free country, and if it’s NOT legal, then that is a whole 'nuther issue.
Good point, J. Turner, that we do have to hand over a bit (no pun intended) more control to our horses in the hunter ring, as they are expected to go around on their own and we just make minor adjustments. Can you imagine having to hunt a horse for several hours that you have to ride ride ride every step of the way? As the horse goes along in his training program, he learns to carry himself and balance himself so the rider only has to do minute fine tuning during a round. Are some of your best rounds the ones where you pretty much did nothing, just let your horse canter around? Your horse has learned to hold his rhythm and pace through the course.
Some of our best hunters and jumpers are race track rejects, and need ear plugs. I know TBs, and you can’t always train the track out of them. Sometimes just getting them to go quietly around a course is miraculous! So what if they need earplugs? Should we expel them? Send them to the auction or the slaughterhouse? I think it is wonderful that these horses have been given a second chance to lead a healthy, happy and productive life.
Does anyone know of a nonTB that needs earplugs, or does this seem to be a TB realted thing? If it was simply a training issue, wouldn’t horses of all breeds need ear plugs?
Thank you for starting this thread. I just cannot believe that anyone sees anything wrong with stuffing a horses ears.
I started a new topic with the answer!
Our ex-steeplechaser turned eq-horse LOVES his earplugs…he puts his head dowwwwn for you to put them in or take them out. What could be wrong with earplugs? They save sensitive horses from some needless agitation without harming or hurting them…I use earplugs in the office when I’m trying to write a report and there’s too much chitchat going on around me.
I’ll jump in behind you, pwynn - and totally support wicky’s idea of revisiting the “ideal hunter”. Someone (maybe prior to separating earbunnies thread from nerve lines?) supported the practice because they take 45 day old racetrack rejects to shows and the noise would be too exciting. I’ve worked for one of those barns (back in the days when 3’6" was the lowest fence outside eq classes) - and earbunnies are the least of what those poor critters need. How about another 6 months of training???
So what IS an ideal hunter? From what I see and read, what’s showing today is as far from an ideal hunter as today’s western pleasure is from a pleasure horse!
WHY is any movement condemned? If the ideal is dead but beautiful, then let’s show robot-horses. Isn’t there a difference between disobedience/resistance and slight movement?
Anyone from KY? Remember Ruth ?? and her dun horse, Claybank? THERE was the ideal hunter/pleasure horse… The only thing he was lacking was beauty, but he MORE than made up for it!
