Electrical and Lighting Questions for Indoor Riding Arena

[King_s_Ransom]

We continue to move forward with our plans to build the indoor arena this spring. The survey is done and the building placement has been determined. The site plan has been submitted to the county, so now we wait.

I have the electrical plan, but am getting some conflicting advice. I’d like to see what you guys think.

For reference, the building will be 60 x 120 and will have two “sky belts” along the two long walls to let in sunlight.

We have to run 300 feet to get power. Right now the plan calls for a 100-amp 22 circuit panel.

We will be powering:
– two cupolas with exhaust fans
– two LED exterior barn lights
– four 20 amp gfci outlets
– 25 five-foot, four lamp T5 fixtures

My nephew is an electrician and he was over this weekend and I showed him the plan. He does not think 100-amp panel is enough, thinks we should do 200-amp. He also is suggesting LED lights instead of the T5 because 1.) replacing bulbs on fluorescents will be a pain since they are so high, 2.) LEDs will come on right away, even when its cold, and 3.) LEDs are not that much more expensive so worth the extra cost.

Does anybody have any opinion to offer? The budget is pretty stretched already, but obviously now is the time to get it done right.

Thanks!

[mmeqcenter]

I agree with your nephew on all fronts.
Better to have more than amps on your panel than less, especially in case you want to add something in the future.
Depends on the wattage of bulb, let’s say 54-watt T5 lamps. That’s 5400 watts, divided by 120 volts gets you 45 amps just from your 25 lamps. Four 20-and circuits is of course 80 amps. You should always have enough on your panel to use everything on it, even if you don’t plan to use it all at once. So now you’re at 125 amps. I have no idea how much fans use, and you still want outside lights.
If you can afford it, LEDs absolutely. Fluorescents are a giant PIA, LED last much longer. LED lights do use less power, but I don’t know if they’ll get you low enough to still make a 100-and panel possible. Could you just do two GFCI outlets?
Could do solar, timed or motion-detector, LED outdoor lights.

[Bluey]

Our panel to the covered arena is 200.
Our transformer is a 400 one and we tapped into the main panel.
We also had to bury 300’, had electricity much closer, but not enough there, needed to put a bigger panel, just as you may have to do.

We have four lines of ten, six lights T5’s and they are wonderful, no shadows.

Can’t say what it would look with other, because those T5’s is all everyone here has.

Electricians today have those bucket trucks and can change any light that fails easily, no matter how high it is.
We also have made a 12’ scaffold frame we can put on our pallet forks that let us reach the highest lights high up there ourselves, but you may not have that.

We just rode into the night today and the light was great in there.

[FitToBeTied]

100 AMPs will be more than enough. We have a 100 AMP service in our barn that comes off the 200 AMP house service. It powers exterior lighting on the barn, a base board heater in the tack room (30 A), A hot water heater (30 A), a six outlet 20 A GFCI run along the stalls, a four outlet AFCI 20 A run above the stalls for fans, A Cupola fan (15 A) and a set of heat lights in the wash stall (15 A).

In the winter time when the farrier plugs his trailer into the 20A outlet, the HW heater is on, the baseboard heat is on, the aisle lights are on and some exterior lights are on.

In the summer when he comes, swap out the baseboard heater for the stall fans and cupola fan.

We never had a problem with power.

I would agree with the LED’s. As lights burn out in the barn we are replacing with LEDs. Less power drain and the come on immediately even in cold weather.

[cherham]

We have 100 amps to our arena and attached tractor storage area. We have no problem with lack of power down there but if you are burying underground anyway you may as well drop in the heavier gauge wire and upgrade to 200 amp. We also installed T5’s as apposed to the LED lights everywhere. These new florescent fixtures were what everyone recommended to us to purchase for our new indoor arena as well. VERY pleased with the light output and they are auto on even on the coldest of nights here. Well below freezing in the winter…as in today ugh! Oh we also installed electrical outlets every 50 feet down the side of the indoor and along the ends as well as outside at every corner of the building. Can never have enough outlets.

[gumtree]

Agree with others 100 amp is more than enough for the intended use. Same as others our barn has a 100 amp panel. It is powering, hot water, 1 baseboard heater, barn well pump, numerous lights, numerous outlets, a couple of ceiling fans, 1 1500 watt tank heater on a 300’ run. my shop with various power tools, a compressor etc.

But if it doesn’t cost that much more to install 200 amp might was well. If it is a possible budget buster don’t bother.

[clanter]

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;9027558]
.

We have to run 300 feet to get power. .
![/QUOTE]

to me this would be the determining factor… what size conductor will be used for this run? … the 200 Amp panels will accept a larger primary feed conductor than the 100 amp panel.

cost difference between 100 and 200 amp load centers is nominal

Would suggest using at least a NEMA-3R rated load center if the location is anywhere near being exposed to the elements.

[King_s_Ransom]

clanter – this is what my nephew said, he was concerned about the length of the run. that is why he suggested the 200 amp service.

[King_s_Ransom]

I just got a suggested light diagram from a company called Pro-Lighting. They are recommending 10 of these: https://www.prolighting.com/hb185b150dl.html

Here is the description from the web page: his 185 Watt LED High Bay is waterproof, and features 0-10V dimming capabilities. Replace your 400 Watt Metal Halide with this fixture, and enjoy the savings of LED for its 79,000 hour life span. Delivering 22,000 lumens of 5000K uniform circular light, this fixture is ideal for any retail, warehouse, gymnasium, or industrial application. For added control, an optional PIR sensor can control the on and off abilities of this Litetronics High Bay. Order your LED High Bays today, or contact one of our certified lighting specialists to learn more.

7 year warranty
0-10V low voltage dimming
Waterproof IP 65 rated

Does anyone have any experience with these, or opinions? These would come in at around $3,000 for 10; as opposed to $2,500 for 25 of the 4-lamp T5 units. Clearly, over the entire cost of the project, $500 is de-minimus if this is indeed an upgrade. Thoughts?

[2DogsFarm]

Cannot speak to the amperage issue because I am electrically-challenged :uhoh:
BUT:
Totally agree on LED over fluorescent.
I went with cold-ballast fluorescent 12yrs ago because I cannot stand the buzzing from halide & IIRC, LED was not available, or at least not offered to me as an option < find that hard to believe, as electrical contractor had to be downsized from his initial quote that would have lit the barn & indoor like hospital surgical theaters!

I HATE my fluorescents now :mad:
Maybe my Fail at not having enclosed fixtures installed, but they are fussy about humidity & with a rafter height of 14’ in my indoor there is no way I will get on a ladder to replace bulbs & cannot afford to pay an electrician.
When first installed they were instant-on in cold weather, but with the years I now have to pray at last 2 of the 4 fixtures in my barn will go on when I need to work in the dark.
The indoor has the same issues, but as I rarely ride after dark & have both eavelights (your “sky belts”?) & skylights. There’s plenty daylight, even on overcast days.

[clanter]

regarding LEDs… light color (color temperature) is measured in kelvins. The lower the number, the warmer (yellower) the light. So, your typical incandescent is somewhere between 2,700 and 3,500K

[cherham]

The new florescent lights available on the market are “light year’s ahead” (pun intended) from what they used to be. The initial cost over the LCD’s were another major factor for us. And the light they throw I believe is better. But everyone has their own opinion. Just do your research.

[King_s_Ransom]

Just heard back from the electrician. He likes the LEDs (linked above) and insists the 100 amp panel is more than adequate. He says he is over-sizing the wire to take care of the voltage drop over the 300 feet.

Also, he said installing only 10 LED fixtures will be less than installing 25 of the T5s. The labor savings will help offset some of the increased cost. He is going to refigure his bid, sticking with the 100 amp service, but swapping out the T5s for the LEDs. Pretty excited to see how this works out!

[cherham]

25 of the T5’s? How large is your arena? We have 12 installed in our 72 x 144 and its overkill really on the light it throws. We usually only use 2 banks of lights at night. Geez you must have one heck of a large indoor riding arena for 25.

[King_s_Ransom]

That’s what he put on the quote, for sure. Seemed like a lot to me, too! The arena is 60 x 120.

[Bluey]

The footprint of our 6 bars T5’s at 16’ is 25’ x 30’.
Our bays are on 25’, the width is 120’, so we used one light in each bay and that covered the width and length for each one.
We can ride fine with only two of the four lines on, but for more traffic or pictures we use all four lines.

I expect whatever you use will be fine anyway.

[King_s_Ransom]

He just called and is going to send me a couple of options. He is concerned that the lights in the lighting diagram from Pro Lighting will be too bright for the horses. He is going to re-quote me those lights as well as some that are not as bright and let me choose.

[Jim_in_PA]

I also agree with your nephew…100 amps is not sufficient long term for a barn operation with an indoor and other existing or potential electric uses. There is little cost difference, if any, for installing 200 amp or higher service outside of the larger conductors from the street. That cost will serve you well over time.

In the simplest terms…it’s a lot easier to have more capacity now than you might need than not enough and have to retrofit later. And likely less expensive long term, too.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Jim_in_PA;9028890]
I also agree with your nephew…100 amps is not sufficient long term for a barn operation with an indoor and other existing or potential electric uses. There is little cost difference, if any, for installing 200 amp or higher service outside of the larger conductors from the street. That cost will serve you well over time.

In the simplest terms…it’s a lot easier to have more capacity now than you might need than not enough and have to retrofit later. And likely less expensive long term, too.[/QUOTE]

“I also agree with your nephew…100 amps is not sufficient long term for a barn”

That has not been my experience with our 100 amp service in the barn. As I said in my comment I run/use a LOT more high demand equipment than than the average barn owner. My shop alone, large table saw, planner, other high demand equipment, stick welder, etc. I gave a what is running in my barn.

I don’t see how an indoor would ever come close to the same demand needs. Let alone a barn and a well equipped shop.

The voltage drop on a 300’ run will have little to no effect. I don’t care what the “book said”. I have found the book always leans toward the worst case scenario.

That being said I agree if the added expense of installing 200 amp service is nominal might as well. The added expense will depend on the existing service that is being tapped into.

[OTTBs]

OP, is this coming off a house or other existing panel? If it’s a new run anyway and it doesn’t cost much more, go with 200 amp. If you’re taking off an existing panel, like I did, 100 amp should be fine. I’m running a heater for the tackroom and an electric water heater in addition to T5 lights, heated buckets (5 so far) and 2 trough heaters off 100 amps.