Derby hunters do 4’ courses in snaffles. Many advanced eventers go in saffles. Most big jumpers only go in something stronger at shows but are safe and soft in snaffles around 4’ or 5’ courses. Furthermore, those horses are being ridden by riders who can get them to the right distance 99% of the time, dont get left behind, don’t come back early, don’t accidentally grab, etc. In times that they do, one of those very athletic horses may have zero qualms about vaulting into the air or firing off a few big bucks.
How high are you jumping? Do you honestly feel that you have exhausted every training tool and resource available so that the only option left is to increase the severity of the bit? If you increase the severity of the bit, are you completely confident that you are not every holding over a fence, coming back early, putting him at a bad distance, or doing something else where a harsher bit will only increase the punishment to his mouth?
I had a super hot hot hot TBx. I tried an elevator. I tried a slow twist. She was enough of a saint to tolerate me long enough for me to learn the problem was me. We fixed my holes as a rider and she was a snaffle ride the rest of her jumping career.
Two of my favorite quotes about bitting up, both from venerable horsemen I respected:
First, from a wonderful old racetracker, watching me and another exercise rider leaving the tackroom with ringbits, figure eights and yolks and rings. “Girl, if you need that much tack just to gallop that horse, you might as well hang it up and go home.”
Second, from a crusty old foxhunter, on a great big 3/4 draft, when asked why he didn’t bit up:
It’s the same old story. The desire for a “shortcut” for the rider to get to a level of riding and/or jumping when the horse needs a proper foundation that the rider is too impatient or unskilled to provide.
The best solution to this problem is for the rider to buy a horse that is already jumping at the level which the rider wants to compete. Inexperienced rider on inexperienced horse takes a lot of hard work to improve, even when supervised by a qualified trainer of horses and riders, it will take time.
If a rider new to eventing, or any other discipline, wants to compete “now”, they need to buy a horse that is experienced at the level. It is unfair to take a horse with issues and try to rush it. That scenario never ends well, especially if the rider is as green in the discipline as is the horse.
This. you’ve created a cycle. Big loop in the reins and pinch of mane. Practice a lot on the flat while you practice your two point. Restraining the horse (and thus limiting his ability to use himself), and/or bumping him in the mouth is a 110% guaranteed way to create a rusher. They panic and have no trust in you. You are not demonstrating a release in your otherwise very pretty profile photo. (Nice horse!). To my eye you appear to be frozen (just a hunch). To steady his rhythm approaching the jump, you can squeeze-release in rhythm but LEAVE HIM ALONE the last three strides (at min). Set up a cone 3 strides out. The release gets the effect. He can be easily reformed but you have to commit to helping him succeed.
Thank you very much. I will try this and just bite the bullet and let go. He may get fast but he doesn’t do anything stupid and he eventually comes back to me. It’s not like he can go very far in a closed arena as well. I’d like to try this.
We school very small fences, 2 foot or less. My last lesson with the elevator bit we schooled 2’7. We have done a ton of schooling to try and get him to be easier to regulate and sometimes we have good days and other times not so good days. Typically we can do an exercise once really well but if we repeat the exercise he wants to get quick. It’s almost like he has the attitude of “I already know this so let me do it” We do a lot of flat work to strengthen him. I’ve started teaching him walk-canter transitions. We can do canter - halt transitions. Canter trot canter. Leg yield. Shoulder in. Serpentine. Flying changes. Everything is there, his fitness is there, the training is there. I would love for it to just be my own psychological short comings that create this so I can just really put my trust in him so I don’t make him rush, if that’s the cause. On our good days, it’s usually me riding around with hardly any contact at a nice canter and he goes around just fine. I’m not sure when exactly or what it is that causes the switch to rushing. It could be when I pick up too much contact to his liking or stop releasing properly.
Never seen a horse invert over a fence in reaction to any bit unless it was being pulled on.
Just a thought. Do you ever pay for Pro rides on your horse? If so, did he invert in the elevator for them? Does he ball up and pull when they ride him around a course? It’s possible your current skills aren’t going to allow you to fix this and the best interests of the horse would be to try a different rider for a few rides and correct the isssue, It would set him up for success more then what you are doing now.
Also, on him telling you he does not like a bit, are you sure he’s not just saying “No, not going to do it and you can’t make me”? Honestly, HM isn’t going to stop him taking you water skiing around the course. More experienced, stronger rider legs and hands might.
Know you will probably say you just had his hocks x rayed just last week and they are perfectly clean but…sore hocks with arthritic changes can create what you are describing and the horse leans on the forehand to protect a sore backend. Or your trainers are experts and say he’s not lame. But they don’t limp if both hocks are sore.
Dont be stubborn about admitting there may be things better for the welfare of the horse then bit changes. He’s no happier then you are.
As I’ve stated before, he’s only been ridden in it once. My trainer has ridden him once in a Dressage lesson and I plan on having her jump him and get on him the next time we go xc schooling. His hocks were xrayed during his PPE last August and they were fine. I agree having a pro ride him would benefit him for sure and I’m excited to see how he goes for someone else. His nickname from the previous professional he came from was rocket ship. If that tells you anything. :lol:
I think that is going to help you the most, honestly, giving a really big release, grabbing mane and just staying out the way as much as you can and just riding it out after the jump. Try it out and let us know if it does help, give it it several tries though for it to work, if you are accidentally catching or pulling on him without realizing it, it’ll take him a few times to realize you are changing things up and he can stretch better.
Year old X rays aren’t much help on a horse in work over fences for a whole year since they were taken that is showing a classic sore hocks behavior trying to unweight and protect the back end. At least it should be ruled out before increasing the pressure to fix the dumping on the forehand.
If that’s it, it’s an easy fix. Why not at least reshoot the hocks to rule it out? You won’t feel too good about it if sore hocks are later found to be at least part of the problem
Have your trainer ride him ASAP in the arena over small jumps. Do that instead of your next lesson. Watch for a while then video tape the rest of the ride. Then ride the horse and have someone video tape your jumps. Go home and play them one after another. How is he different for the pro? What differences do you see between your riding and the pro
s riding? There will be differences. How do those differences affect his jump?
If I investigated every claim someone on the internet has made that has to do with veterinary problems with my horse I’d be completely broke. So far, on this chat board alone, I’ve been told to have him checked for Lyme disease, hindgut ulcers, ulcers, EPM, and now hock issues. I’ve already spent a ton to rule out veterinary issues. He has had a recent lameness exam and my vet was not concerned about lameness issues.
Thank you for your suggestion, anyways. I just don’t feel that’s the problem. He is a strong horse that is fit enough to carry himself properly that has a rider that needs to relax a little bit first to see if that fixes the issue. And if it doesn’t, I will continue to work with him under the guidance of my trainers and if my trainers (that are certified) tell me to try a different bit than I will.
Rushing is almost always pain or anxiety (or both–anxiety about pain). There may be loads of reasons for the anxiety. A lot of them could have to do with your riding. Hard to say over the Internet. Examples might be: not giving enough release, catching him in the mouth, coming back too early on landing, grabbing on landing, or just holding on with the reins too much overall all of the time once the jumping starts because you are afraid to go faster. It might also be your seat…maybe you are driving too much, sitting too hard, leaning forward or back, or maybe you are goosing him with your legs in the air and don’t know it. Maybe your idea of fast and his idea of fast are 2 different things. I mean, he is an eventer and should be bold. But a nice bold eventer is not necessarily suitable for a timid beginner eventing rider who hasn’t learned to become bold themselves.
It would be a very good idea to have a good pro get on and see what happens. Can she identify where the anxiety is? Is it in his body? Is it something else? How does he respond to a different ride.
I think in addition to practicing all your flatwork that’s geared towards suppling him, you should supple yourself some by spending some time in 2 point, bridging your reins, and going for a gallop. Like you said, he doesn’t do anything stupid, so go for it. Get comfortable with some speed and keeping your body quiet and out of his way. If you can do that, you can finesse your posture for the other work as well. Riding a bold, sensitive TB is an art.
Thank you. I really appreciate your input and I think you’re exactly right. We are both beginner eventers he’s just already bold about it. I’m very excited to try all of this information that’s been presented in a different perspective. I really really hope this is it. I tried SO HARD to not catch him in the face when we first started out, and when we first started out I didn’t have this problem. I think it may have manifested because he would jump SO large all the time despite the size of the jump and he would unseat me here and there, especially because my saddle didn’t fit us in the beginning so I absolutely couldn’t use my leg appropriately. Now we have saddles that fit us both but I need to work on this monster I’ve inadvertently created. I truly hope it’s as simple as this. I won’t be able to try any of this until 2 weeks from now because I’m going on vacation. So now I have to sit and feel anticipation. Hehe
