Is there a commonly accepted best way (or at least a good way) to emergency stop a driving horse? Under saddle there are far more options it seems because of the close contact with the horse and lack of a vehicle with unbending shafts between you and horse.
thanks!
-Leah
Here’s a video that shows the addition of leverage. This is what I’m going on till I learn a different/better method.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Lk9U6POLw&NR=1
The reining begins at 2:00 and goes almost to the end of the video.
The emergency stop occurs at 3:50
Even if you hold your lines in two hands, I think you can easily make this method of leverage work for you.
I’m just beginning, so I’ll be very interested in the other’s replies to your question. Thanks for asking it!
Wendy
I had a previous trainer tell me the best plan if bolted with out in the country was to look for a penetrable but difficult substance, such as tall standing corn, and aim for that. Slows the horse way down without too much risk of shattering horse, carriage, and passengers into smithereens.
He once also stopped a pair by “splitting” them around a tree. Had a bride and groom in back, and couldn’t risk a turnover.
Best, though I suppose it’s not always guaranteed, is a very solid training of the “whoa”. I’ve seen a well-trained horse heed a “whoa” and stand even when he’d just had the carriage flip at a canter, so it can be done.
ETA: just watched the video - what an adorable pony!! The “leverage” thing seems like a nice way to be sure you have your reins, but I think the problem is not usually (hopefully) “help, I’ve lost my grip on the reins” but rather “help, I’m pulling on the reins and the horse is running through the bit!”. So it’s the latter - which is about training not hand position - that is most important. IMO, anyway. I’d love to hear what others have to say about it.
There are 5 videos in that series and I just love watching them. The pony is indeed adorable! It kinda almost makes me want to have a pony!
tfp, I can’t offer a thing about your take on the leverage action. I just don’t know any alternatives - except the ones you mentioned above. When I begin driving our roads, I’ll have to make a point of looking for penetrable obstacles that we could get to safely. Most of our land here is below road level, meaning there’s some form of steep, short hill or culvert between the two. Ouch!
Wendy
thanks for the replies. Twofatponies- I agree, I think most horses when bolting are not going to respect the bit the way they do when they’re in control and using their brain- so in an emergency, pulling harder is usually just that.
I like the cornfield idea, but how about if you’re doing mostly arena driving?
I have heard of horses respecting the voice cue to whoa during an emergency, but I think the ones that can do that while in an emergency situation are far and few between.
What other ideas are out there??
Had a friend who trained a pair of small mules for a wagon. He had one he couldn’t trust and was a little flighty. He ran a small rope from a hobble attached to one pasturn thru the harness to the wagon. It was his emergency brake. If the mule got foolish he’d pull the rope and have him fall on his knees. That mule learned pretty quick to behave and he only needed to use it a few times. He was doing public things and needed to be sure he could stop them quickly if needed. He said he’d rather have a skinned knee than an awful wreck with them.
Beyond that I don’t know. I always try to be as prepared as possible. Helmet. Someone either with me in the vehicle or on the ground nearby. I’ve been in only one emergency situation, and I was the “groom” - my trainer was driving. My older mare (who is no longer a driving horse because we couldn’t get her past this kind of occasional overreaction) spun and bolted. She went down a ditch and around a tree, but she did stop after a few strides, though she was plunging up and down and had her tongue over the bit. I was already at her head by then. We unhitched her, ground drove her back and forth til she settled and listened again, hitched up and went home.
The mare I drive now I selected in part because she is deeply sensible, generally unflappable, has a lot of try and listens well. I’m sure somewhere out there there’s a situation that could unhinge her, but I haven’t (thank goodness) discovered it yet.
I would never drive a horse I didn’t have a whole lot of confidence in.
[QUOTE=painted spirit;4329156]
Had a friend who trained a pair of small mules for a wagon. He had one he couldn’t trust and was a little flighty. He ran a small rope from a hobble attached to one pasturn thru the harness to the wagon. It was his emergency brake. If the mule got foolish he’d pull the rope and have him fall on his knees. That mule learned pretty quick to behave and he only needed to use it a few times. He was doing public things and needed to be sure he could stop them quickly if needed. He said he’d rather have a skinned knee than an awful wreck with them.[/QUOTE]
yes I have heard of this method. My friend sent her Arab off to be broke to drive last spring and he put hobbles on him and set him right down to his knees if he didn’t respond to “whoa” on the first try. This horse is extremely sensitive and rather flighty so I’m sure he spent a lot of time on the ground in the process. I think it’s kindof a nice system to use when breaking, but I wouldn’t want to always have my horse hobbled in order to drive. If anyone uses this method, do you hobble just one leg or both, and how do you run your line (through what part of the harness)?
[QUOTE=Samigator;4329306]
yes I have heard of this method. My friend sent her Arab off to be broke to drive last spring and he put hobbles on him and set him right down to his knees if he didn’t respond to “whoa” on the first try. This horse is extremely sensitive and rather flighty so I’m sure he spent a lot of time on the ground in the process. I think it’s kindof a nice system to use when breaking, but I wouldn’t want to always have my horse hobbled in order to drive. If anyone uses this method, do you hobble just one leg or both, and how do you run your line (through what part of the harness)?[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen this done but never as a standard part of training, only as an emergency “cure” for a pony that had developed a dangerous bolt or rear. I think most horses, especially if just being started, can learn “whoa” quite well in their ground work and long lining work. It seems an extreme measure to use as a standard part of training, as opposed to dealing with a problem horse that needs re-training.
OK… dropping your horse by pulling his leg out from under him sounds like a very bad idea to me. Usually a horse that truely bolts is not a good driving candidate. A temporary bounce forward for a short distance can typically be dealt with by the rein method shown in the training tape or a lot of half halts to prevent the horse finding something to bear down on and pull.
In a life or death or imminent major danger setting, I guess turning into a crop field full to slow him down might help, but it’s sure going to make the farmer unhappy to say nothing of the horse if you find one of the groundhog holes we have in our local fields.
Best practice is to keep working with the horse until his first choice of response is to stop or maybe take a few steps and then check back to see what YOU think of the situation.
If the horse is offering this type of behaviour in the ring, I’d probably back off a step or three in the training. He’s showing he’s uncertain and doesn’t feel he has someone to turn to for help.
OKay this is tough. I have had two horses that I have had to “last resort” with the hobbles/ i actually use a foot shackle much like what Saddlebred trainers use to teach front end animation.
This is exactly that, a last resort! I did not do it hitched. I was teaching “whoa, right the F now!” I did it in simple surcingle gear, blinker bridle, sometimes longlining, sometimes only on a lunge. Walk trot only. I asked for forward, then I say whoa. If the horse doesn’t put on the brakes, i add resistance, in stages. I never just brought the horse down until it became absolutely neccessary. I do it in my deep sand so as to minimize injury risk. I stay well clear of the walls as well.
this is only for the extremely experienced trainer. this is a last resort for teaching whoa. This should be done first NOT HITCHED. I personally woudl not do this hitched unless absolutely neccessary and would probably not be in the vehicle so as to have better control, hard to manage lines and a hobble line with a carriage going nose down on you.
My biggest gripe about training techniques of ANY SORT is that most folks don’t understand how to break the final goal into umpteen thousand steps and take your time and patience with the horse and the steps so as to get to the goal as an end product of the steps, not as the whole enchilada on the first try.
I am currently retraining a Haflinger (13, very seasoned) who just bolted pulling a Kunle and turned it over on my friend because she wouldn’t stop. The problem, she has an aversion to unexpected noises that startle her ( this has gotten worse over time) and she has never been taught to stop when the carriage meets resistance. Unfortunately, it is the owners fault for not dealing with these training issues and now they are habit. You can bet the first lesson is whoa and I am taking away carriage, blind bridle, lines you name it so she can pull a noisey piece of fence wire all over the farm. All the while, now she can see it behind her and I have her on a short chain lead over the nose to teach whoa. We take tight corners around fence posts and trees to teach her that resistance does not mean she is trapped. Your best training tool is your ability to set the horse up to succeed.
thanks. Yeah, I didn’t really know of a good emergency brake for a driving horse like the one rein stop or “doubling up” as I call it under saddle- at least nothing as simple yet effective. That’s why I started this thread- to see if anyone else out there knows of a good way to stop a driving horse in an emergency situation, and it doesn’t sound like there’s an overabundance of options out there. Just to clarify, I’m not looking for advice on training a poorly suited horse, just as a general discussion on the “what if’s.” Thanks for the ideas thus far, if anyone has more, I’d love to hear them!
I didn’t have access to an arena when I drove a lot as a kid. I remember having to do an emergency stop with a runaway once. I drove him into a thicket of bushes on the side of the road. It was more of a spook than a true bolt and we were traveling down a road. He was not responding to voice or lines best I could manage was to steer him off the road!
[QUOTE=Samigator;4329306]
yes I have heard of this method. My friend sent her Arab off to be broke to drive last spring and he put hobbles on him and set him right down to his knees if he didn’t respond to “whoa” on the first try. This horse is extremely sensitive and rather flighty so I’m sure he spent a lot of time on the ground in the process. I think it’s kindof a nice system to use when breaking, but I wouldn’t want to always have my horse hobbled in order to drive. If anyone uses this method, do you hobble just one leg or both, and how do you run your line (through what part of the harness)?[/QUOTE] Sounds stark staring bonkers to me and a good way to render your horse useless!
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4333535]
Sounds stark staring bonkers to me and a good way to render your horse useless![/QUOTE]
so do you have a better idea?
[QUOTE=winfieldfarm;4332564]
OKay this is tough. I have had two horses that I have had to “last resort” with the hobbles/ i actually use a foot shackle much like what Saddlebred trainers use to teach front end animation.
This is exactly that, a last resort! I did not do it hitched. I was teaching “whoa, right the F now!” I did it in simple surcingle gear, blinker bridle, sometimes longlining, sometimes only on a lunge. Walk trot only. I asked for forward, then I say whoa. If the horse doesn’t put on the brakes, i add resistance, in stages. I never just brought the horse down until it became absolutely neccessary. I do it in my deep sand so as to minimize injury risk. I stay well clear of the walls as well.
this is only for the extremely experienced trainer. this is a last resort for teaching whoa. This should be done first NOT HITCHED. I personally woudl not do this hitched unless absolutely neccessary and would probably not be in the vehicle so as to have better control, hard to manage lines and a hobble line with a carriage going nose down on you.
My biggest gripe about training techniques of ANY SORT is that most folks don’t understand how to break the final goal into umpteen thousand steps and take your time and patience with the horse and the steps so as to get to the goal as an end product of the steps, not as the whole enchilada on the first try.
I am currently retraining a Haflinger (13, very seasoned) who just bolted pulling a Kunle and turned it over on my friend because she wouldn’t stop. The problem, she has an aversion to unexpected noises that startle her ( this has gotten worse over time) and she has never been taught to stop when the carriage meets resistance. Unfortunately, it is the owners fault for not dealing with these training issues and now they are habit. You can bet the first lesson is whoa and I am taking away carriage, blind bridle, lines you name it so she can pull a noisey piece of fence wire all over the farm. All the while, now she can see it behind her and I have her on a short chain lead over the nose to teach whoa. We take tight corners around fence posts and trees to teach her that resistance does not mean she is trapped. Your best training tool is your ability to set the horse up to succeed.[/QUOTE]
Good post, imo.
[QUOTE=Samigator;4333790]
so do you have a better idea?[/QUOTE]
If the horse is not safe in the training pen, after having had his leg pulled to halt him, there is NO WAY I would want this horse hitched in front of me! Especially with the rope and hobbles added to his harness in front of the vehicle!!
The training pen has the softer footing, hoping here for deep sand, to land better. Horse being dropped to his knees is going to hurt himself if you need to do much of that for stopping him. Knees are NOT designed to take body weight falling on them!! You will damage him, can happen easily. If he does not drive, is he worth money for any other job? Sometimes the hobble and rope are his last chance for being useful at all. Your choice, not a horse I would want to be using.
Again, such an animal is NOT a good prospect for driving when naturally spooky or flighty. Some animals just are not best suited, when FORCED to drive thru such training methods. Not mentally suited, not accepting of new or different things as reliable Driving horses need to be.
tfp- agreed!
To clarify again, I am not planning on using this hobble technique personally, as no horse I’ve ever worked with has required such measures. I’m not looking for advice on any personal problem- I started this thread because I am interested to hear what creative ideas people have come up with as a solution to an otherwise difficult to solve hypothetical problem. So thank you to those who have offered up your experiences and solutions!
Leah, in an arena I will try to circle. Since long lining is a basic part of ASB training, most of them are happy to return to the “safe” work of going in a circle.
If they will not steer, I’ll try to unbalance them by quickly turning their head HARD to the rail as I come out of a turn. If you can unbalance them out of their run and make them fall into a trot you’re usually ok.
Don’t use a steady pull - bump, left right left right and try to regain their mouth.
When we have a horse who might spook in the cart, we hook them with a halter over their bridle and a lunge line with a second person at the end. They can maintain some control over the horse should something happen.
Best thing you can do is put a solid WHOA on your horse, and test it in a variety of circumstances before you hook the horse. Going through “Saddlebred training” usually makes a horse fairly unspookable anyways. 
When dealing with a bolt I try to get them to give. There is a difference between a blind scared $h!tle$$ bolt and a wanting to run. For those wanting to run or not wanting to stop I have the tire of further enlightenment. I hook them up to the tire and we pull it until they are ready to listen. Not much different than lunging before you ride. For a blind bolt and I have only had this happen once, hope to heck you have room to maneuver. I had this happen once with a horse that was here because he had done it before. I had 80 acres of worked ground on the left when he tucked his but and went stupid. I moved him into the deep ground and didn’t fight with him. He made about a half mile before I could feel him come back to me. I didn’t try to stop him but moved towards a haystack. I yelled whoa as turned him into the stack. He stopped and let him think about life for a bit before I unhooked him to get him out.
I like to start horses in the winter with several feet of snow on the ground. The soon learn to stay on the trail. I can then move them into deep snow if they want to get goofy. LF
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