Thanks!
great ideas Tiffani, as always. Very useful tips for arena driving. and lostfarmer I totally agree about winter driving, I love it- of course there can be a few more obstacles to driving in the snow, but it certainly would help them to come to their senses quickly in the event of an emergency driving through deep snow!
To me an emergency stop is what you would do when something happens ahead of you that you weren’t anticipating or expecting.
There’s a difference between an “Emergency Stop” and stopping a horse that’s bolting. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
For the former which I took you to mean you need to stop in a hurry, you merely lean forward which, if you’re driving a 2 wheeler, will put weight through the tugs and saddle onto the horse and ask and then if needed take a great handful of reins and haul in. Saying “Woa” at the same time.
If you’re in a vehicle with brakes then you apply them as well.
If you’ve grooms on the back step then they need to get their weight forward on the horse/s too.
Not pretty but all effective!
That’s the simple answer but what I always want to say to folks is if you’re having to ask strangers how to stop a riding or driving horse then you’re not ready to go out with one yet and need to go to an instructor.
However this post seemed to morph from just an “Emergency Stop” to stopping a bolting horse.
Big Difference!
So you then have to understand what a “true” bolt or runaway actually is and also to understand that its REALLY REALLY rare.
There’s a HUGE difference between a horse that’s momentarily fearful and has taken off for a bit and a horse who’s LOST ITS BRAIN. The first isn’t bolting, but rather a spook and scoot. Bolting is another ballgame.
I’ve had no more than 4 true “bolters” in decades of training horses. I’ve had a quite a few though that all too often employed the spook and scoot or runaway tactic. The latter IMO isn’t even bolting.
There is a massive difference between a horse spooking and scooting away under the rider or driver for a few strides across or down to the other end of the arena, or say a racehorse or some other “hot/excitable” horse who takes hold of the reins and goes for a bit of a run because he got excited or tired of the rider/driver holding the bit, and a horse who bolts.
So then bolting:
First off you need to absolutely understand that a true bolt is a VERY rare thing.
So IMO it would be somewhat absurd to go setting up with something to bring a horse to it’s knees on the off chance it might one day lose it’s mind and bolt.
There are two kinds of bolting:
The kind where the horse completely loses its mental capabilities to ‘think’ AND DOES NOT REGAIN THEM FOR SOME TIME. The horse is literally in a panic and running for it’s life and sometimes this horse will run itself right into obstacles immediately in its path because it does not ‘see’ them in the panic. You’re not going to stop this horse until he runs out of gas or comes to his senses.
The second kind is the ‘clever’ horse that does it because he’s not happy with what’s currently going on. This is a horse that’s used bolting to get rid out of the situation its in and is fully aware of what’s going on. This horse often likes to include bucking as they’re galloping off with all their might. This kind you can stop, if you can stay astride or aboard long enough have the riding/driving skill.
It’s true to say that when compared to a bolt or runaway with a rider, the driver has intrinsic higher risk of more serious injury.
Accidents with a driving horse by their nature just aren’t like they are with a riding horse. Intrinsically are potentially they are always much more serious - lets say a bit of harness fails and the carriage tips or the carriage gets caught on something and then a bit of harness fails - the very event in itself puts on a “command” to the horse that you don’t want: all of a sudden something breaks and slackens and puts pressure elsewhere so there’s a command and then the spook and scoot occurs … but as the horse begins its run away lets say the carriage tips the driver falls out - When a rider falls off he merely risks being hit by a hoof and an awkward fall on the hard ground. The driver in addition to that also has the vehicle to contend with. He hits the deck and then gets smacked with or run over by a great heavy carriage. And trust me, they hurt and do SERIOUS damage!
What happens is that when the horse is now off on its flight and fright response and because the carriage is being dragged say with a failed harness slapping and flapping and staying with the horse, then the horse’s mind stays switched into its flight and fright mode and what would be a spook and scoot or short burst with a riding horse continues on as the horse gallops. The carriage continues often smashing into things - all of which further terrifies the horse and it cannot switch its mind back to “nothing to fear” mode.
A horse is a fright and flight animal when its GENUINELY in that mode its not thinking or listening at all to any rider or driver but its more likely to “switch back” quicker and recover its composure when its being ridden. When its bolting its looking after itself - its not at all concerned about anything else. As a rider all you have to do is sit on. As a driver you have to hope to hell that the horse isn’t going to go somewhere or do something in its panic to escape and flight that’s going to smack or tip the carriage.
In terms of practicalities your aim is to do all possible to keep the carriage running and yourself in it and safe for as long as possible and until the horse “switches back”. So if you are faced with a bolt or runaway, then if at all possible you’re best off staying on the straight - no turning, no risking a carriage tip up and try to make the going as heavy and as hard as possible for the horse. So that means apply brakes, put weight on and if possible even aim to put the horse into a ploughed field if you’re used to and have the skills to drive off road. And rather than putting constant Pull or pressure on the reins, ask and release, ask and release then ASK, ASK, ASK.
In truth though the best and most effective way to manage such circumstances is prevention. That means ensuring the horse is well trained and confident. In particular it must be confident that in the driver’s ability.
Its not just about building it in the horse - the horse develops it from having confidence in the driver and knowing that the driver isn’t going to ask anything of him that puts him in pain or danger. No driver has the right to be trusted and no driver should expect his horse to be confident. You earn it be being competent and consistent and managing risks. I passionately believe no book in the world can teach the driver those practical kinesthetic skills.
Its about building skill, putting skills into practice and so gaining experience and in gaining experience, learning from it and developing aptitude and competence and confidence which in turn means the horse will trust you.
Prevention is also about ensuring your harness is routinely checked and inspected and that you check and check again every time you put a horse to harness to ensure you’ve attached everything properly.
It’s also about ensuring your vehicle is suitable and fit for purpose and that it’s not going to fail or tip as soon as it comes under strain.
Finally it’s about being aware as a driver and being one step ahead and learning to “think and read horse” and ensuring your confidence is in sync with your competence (and never exceeds it!)
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4336523]
There’s a difference between an “Emergency Stop” and stopping a horse that’s bolting. HUGE DIFFERENCE. [/QUOTE]
I think either would constitute some degree of emergency and therefore fit into the question I had posed. Perhaps “emergency” wasn’t well defined in my first post. When I posed the question I had thought more of a bolt/spooked horse running away with the driver.
That’s the simple answer but what I always want to say to folks is if you’re having to ask strangers how to stop a riding or driving horse then you’re not ready to go out with one yet and need to go to an instructor.
I never said I didn’t know any way to emergency stop a horse, I just wanted to hear what others have learned from their experiences and what they think is the best way- especially since stopping a driving horse is more complicated than a riding horse. There’s more than one way to skin a cat as they say. I think it benefits everybody to discuss the options and have a couple of extra tricks up the sleeve in the event that they should need them someday. In my opinion, the best way to get hurt is to stop seeking knowledge and stop asking questions from others. We ALL can stand to keep learning from those around us, so what’s wrong with asking?
So IMO it would be somewhat absurd to go setting up with something to bring a horse to it’s knees on the off chance it might one day lose it’s mind and bolt.
Totally agree. I think the hobbling idea is a creative and potentially useful tool to have available in the event that you need it in the beginning stages with a horse who doesn’t necessarily respect the “whoa” command - as in the situation that Winfieldfarm posted.
In truth though the best and most effective way to manage such circumstances is prevention. That means ensuring the horse is well trained and confident. In particular it must be confident that in the driver’s ability.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately emergencies do arise no matter how well prepared we think we are, so it pays to be as prepared as possible before something happens.
alright,so now i chime in again. ironically enough, I am laying on my couch recovering from a carriage accident, a bolt.
History, Haflinger pony, 13 years old, broke as a 3 year old and driven far and wide for the majority of her life. The last 6 or 7 years, she has been owned by the breeders granddaughter, a knowledgable and experienced driver. This pony has done road miles, equine affaire driven drill teams, countless clinics under professional instruction and was moving up to prelim cde.
One time, three years ago, the pony got away from owner at home and got herself and carriage hung up on a tree stump after a short driverless bolt. This mare has always been the slightest bit scoot-chy about sudden noises behind her- all her life!! whether this issue was ever really addressed I don’t know. I guess it hadn’t escaleted into a full blown problem after all these years.
2 months ago, owner was practicing driven dressage in a friends outdoor. Pulling friends Kuhnle- second time for pony pulling said vehicle. Pony going along fine for a time when, suddenly she scooted. Kuhnle rattled louder and pony bolted. Owner could not get her pulled to stop. Here comes the end of the arena, pony turns, carriage turns over, throws my friend out and into fence. Friend really busted up, goes to hospital. Pony now dragging carriage, makes her way to open gate and out the ring she goes until someone is able to flag her down.
6 weeks later, pony comes to my house for evaluation. On Monday and Tuesday, I outfit her in harness, open bridle, halter and chain over nose, lunge line. we drag a noisey piece of wire fencing ALL OVER THE PLACE! She is given ample chance to see what is behind her, given proper direction about what to do if startled - WHOA! Quite frankly, her reactions her nothing extraordinary. She was hesitant but willing, not overreactive at all. I had plans not to hitch until week two but based on her calm acceptance, overruled my better judgement and hitched up on Wednesday.
My stall girl was nearby for assistance but horse gave no indication that she needed it. I hitched her by myself in the indoor arena. She never batted an eyelash. She was hitched to a two wheel metal forecart, one she has pulled countless times. She stood quiet, motionless, chewing the bit while I adjusted and readjusted tack. I gathered my lines and stepped into the seat. I waited several moments before asking her to “walk on”.
She never took a step. I was caught completely by suprise to the mare bolting off with all her might. She took off like a horse in a starting gate at the big race. It took several strides for me to catch my mind and begin hauling on her mouth. We started out parked on the short end of the indoor arena and made it one full lap of the ring so fast, I quite literrally didn’t have much time to react. then she leapt sideways to the left out the open arena door that is about two thirds down my long rail. She had spit the bit and had no intention of stopping. The forecart and my body slammed sideways into the door jamb of the barn. She dug her heels into the gravel driveway and bounced the cart over the doorsill. I was launched into the air, slammed my left side into the dash and landed about 12 feet out from the barn door on my knees and elbows. She never stopped, careening the cart first into a fence post, then running the shaft into the side of the sawdust bin. At this point, the cart exploded into to pieces and she continued on around the property, coming to a stop to graze outside the fence next to the other horses.
So you tell me…
What could I have done differently?
In the span of the few seconds that she lapped my arena, a thousand thoughts went through my head. I had sense enough to attempt to run her into the corner as she made her lap around the far end. She had her head pulled round over the left shaft, mouth gaping and managed to continue turning right through the turns. She never bucked, kicked the cart, or threw her head high in fear. My thoughts were to try to gain control so the cart and I wouldn’t tip over in the arena, just like my friend. She powered through me, I think in a very calculated way. She was headed for the door…
Brakes, yes, but speed and gravity as well as shock prevented me from stepping on it.
I had a brief moment prior to stepping in the cart where I debated long lining her hitched before stepping in but I have always found it safer to be in the cart, keeping up, rather than having the horse take off, ripping the lines from your hands and running loose with the cart.
If we had not hit the door, I may have stayed in and navigated the minefield of obstacles around my yard. but who knows?
Should this have been a horse that I should have hobbled? Should she been taken down so as to teach her that she is not powerful, not stronger than her handlers? I can only guess…
So now the questions is this. Can a bolting horse be cured or will that knowledge of power and definance always lay waiting in the back of their minds. Her owner and I, knowing this horse, do not trust this horse and will not continue any training with this mare. I have a little boy, a husband who loves and trusts me to keep myself safe. If I had been more seriously hurt, our lives would have taken a turn we could never come back from. I have been in the horse business my whole life, second generation horse trainer. I can count on one hand how many times in my career that I have felt truly out of control with a horse. this is the first time I was not able to get the control back.
My suggestion will not be the popular one. I say that she has learned that a bolt gets her free and free means no work. If she was brought to me to “fix” I would fix her with what us dumb farmers call a buck back line. I would then hook her as a team with my broke horse that is too lazy to run. The buck back hooks from the run crazy horse to the end of the evener behind the good horse. When the crazy runs it takes the entire load with its nose. I the vehicle of choice would be the war wagon with enough weight the brakes have meaning. With 2 people hook here and hope she bolts. As you can see this is a pain and time consuming to hookup so I would more than likely send her to visit a french family for dinner and the “guest” of honor. 
On other thing you could try. Get a forecart that is made from the front end of a semi truck. Then fill the tires with fluid. When said pony tries to run hit the brakes. It will slam the shafts down and bounce her on her nose. It may kill her but it will cure the need to run. Again I would simply let her be the guest of honor at a french dinner.
LF
winfield - that’s the nightmare scenario.
I think it’s a completely different if a green horse or even a broke horse scoots a step or two at a loud noise. But the bolting you are describing seems to me like it’s become something else, and I would not drive a horse like that again, no matter what “cure” was applied to “fix” it.
LostFarmer’s technique, or hobbles, or whatever, MIGHT fix it, but might not - a smart pony might well know when the device is not on, and a bolt can be gotten away with.
Now she may be perfectly fine as a riding horse for an experienced small adult or confident teen - there are a lot more options for stopping a bolting horse under saddle, and a lot less wreckage if you can’t get stopped right quick.
I’d consider her for a different discipline (maybe she loves to jump?).
Thank goodness you weren’t hurt worse. 
Wow, that is scary. It sounds like the first terrible accident scared the bejeezus out of her so she is now associating the feel of a cart bumping her sides and making noise with being A Bad Thing. I doubt she’s doing it “because she can” although if it continues, she’ll eventually learn that.
At this point I’d be long lining her with blinkers on, PVC poles as shafts, and dragging some tires. Long line in circles until she’s bored stupid, and then attach noisy stuff to it. Repeat. Eventually she will forget that stuff banging on her sides is going to automatically result in her getting loose.
But I would never trust this pony and would never put an inexperienced driver in the cart. More likely, I’d find her a new job.
wow winfield,
That sounds awful. I hope you are okay. I hope I didn’t jinx you by starting this thread at such a coincidental time. . .
[QUOTE=winfieldfarm;4341365]
alright,so now i chime in again. ironically enough, I am laying on my couch recovering from a carriage accident, a bolt.[/QUOTE]Hope you make a speedy recovery.
So you tell me…
What could I have done differently?
On Monday and Tuesday, I outfit her in harness, open bridle, halter and chain over nose, lunge line. we drag a noisey piece of wire fencing ALL OVER THE PLACE!
Put her in full driving harness and including a bridle with blinkers.
Vary what’s going being her and rather than having it attached to her get your groom/stall girl, to walk behind her with it. I drag tin cans, garden implements, you name it up and down a VERY rocky road behind them.
She is given ample chance to see what is behind her, given proper direction about what to do if startled - WHOA!
Don’t let her see things. Get a driving bridle on her and let her hear masses of noise.
Quite frankly, her reactions her nothing extraordinary. She was hesitant but willing, not overreactive at all.
Do it more and for longer and more varied and until she’s not hesitant at all. Don’t progress ever until the horse is showing signs of total confidence in your ability to lead it. Don’t move on till it’s confidently going forward when you let it know there’s nothing to be concerned about.
I had plans not to hitch until week two but based on her calm acceptance, overruled my better judgement and hitched up on Wednesday.
WOA! There’s the big thing you did wrong. You leapt forward at this point.
My stall girl was nearby for assistance but horse gave no indication that she needed it.
:no::eek: NEVER EVER EVER would I wait for a horse to indicate that I was going to need assistance. You have assistance there so that IF it’s needed you’ve got it and to stop any escalation of a problem
I hitched her by myself in the indoor arena.
:no: With a horse with a history of pis sing off!? You’re taking a risk there. Don’t in future.
She never batted an eyelash. She was hitched to a two wheel metal forecart, one she has pulled countless times. She stood quiet, motionless, chewing the bit while I adjusted and readjusted tack. I gathered my lines and stepped into the seat. I waited several moments before asking her to “walk on”.
I’d not have done this at this stage. All the signs are there that she’s not ready. She’s a history of pi ssing off. She’s only been 2 days with you and that’s not time to settle in, let alone to express her opinions.
I’d suggest that this stage should be done only when you’re 110% confident she’s not responding or hesitant about things behind her. THEN when you first harness, you have someone to head the horse. In fact I have 2 assisters when a horse has the track record you describe and then once it’s harnessed to an exercise cart, I long rein over the back and so I’m walking and there’s an assister either side of the horses head and holding a loosely coiled 30 feet long line each also attached to the bit. The headers stand alongside the horses shoulder for reassurance and then gradually step back and out. ONLY if things are going well do they unclip.
I also severely test the horse by going out through a gates walk way nice and smooth and gradually going to a little rocky, bumpy track and after 300 yards then to a very rutted gateway and a nice big 3 acre field with a down hill slope so the horse will feel it’s britching and the carriage bumping. Any signs of hesitancy or silliness and I can see long before it gets to me being on board.
As I said earlier, I don’t do turning if I can avoid it with a horse that’s bolting. For sure I wouldn’t be in a restricted or confined space with a horse with that track record and that I’m assessing and retraining.
She took off like a horse in a starting gate at the big race. It took several strides for me to catch my mind and begin hauling on her mouth. We started out parked on the short end of the indoor arena and made it one full lap of the ring so fast, I quite literrally didn’t have much time to react. then she leapt sideways to the left out the open arena door that is about two thirds down my long rail.
I never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever… got it… leave arena gates or doors open. No doubt that is something you could do differently in future.
She dug her heels into the gravel driveway and bounced the cart over the doorsill. I was launched into the air, slammed my left side into the dash and landed about 12 feet out from the barn door on my knees and elbows.
Don’t forget to take your assister with you.
She never stopped, careening the cart first into a fence post, then running the shaft into the side of the sawdust bin.
Ensure where you’re working is enclosed and ensure the horse can’t piss off back to where it started by closing gates and doors.
At this point, the cart exploded into to pieces and she continued on around the property, coming to a stop to graze outside the fence next to the other horses.
See above plus ensure the exercise cart is substantial and sufficient to stand REALLY rough treatment.
She powered through me, I think in a very calculated way. She was headed for the door…
You gave her that opportunity. Don’t do that in future.
I had a brief moment prior to stepping in the cart where I debated long lining her hitched before stepping in but I have always found it safer to be in the cart, keeping up, rather than having the horse take off, ripping the lines from your hands and running loose with the cart.
That’s not my experience and I do what I described earlier. With lines long enough and good assisters and a vehicle substantial enough in the right space you are more likely than less likely to get leverage. IF however the horse is so bad that it does pi ss off, then you’re best keeping safe yourself and letting it run loose with the cart. You manage that by ensuring that the horse is in an enclosed area and the most she can do is hit a perimeter fence/gate or door or run out of steam.
If we had not hit the door, I may have stayed in and navigated the minefield of obstacles around my yard. but who knows?
CLOSE YOUR DOORS AND GATES!
Should this have been a horse that I should have hobbled?
Not in my opinion.
Should she been taken down so as to teach her that she is not powerful, not stronger than her handlers?
Not in my opinion.
So now the questions is this. Can a bolting horse be cured or will that knowledge of power and definance always lay waiting in the back of their minds.
yes but it needs doing by someone who: doesn’t take chances. Doesn’t progress too quickly. Has able and competent assisters at hand. Shuts gates and doors. Can read horse. Who thinks about the horse’s and their own safety and takes all reasonable precautions BEFORE training commences.
You don’t trust her and she won’t trust you. The horse has now had several bad experiences and it’s going to be harder to recover. Not impossible at all, but harder. It’s learning to bolt and it’s going to need a very very competent driving trainer with facilities and resources to give it a chance of recovery.
Incidentally this one sounds absolutely identical to one I posted about here a couple of years ago. That came to me having had 3 major bolts within the first year of it’s being put to harness. Experienced driver (ex head girl for John Attenburgh - current UK pairs HDT champion). At the time I posted a lot of photos of it being long reined with assisters and over the back of the carriage. And yes it pi ssed off doing that too! But we got there in the end and it’s doing VERY VERY nicely now. It was here for over 6 months though. About 3 months training with me and 3 months to get it’s owner’s confidence back up and put them back together safely and all whilst it was having miles put on it by me and always with an assister.
agree with thomas 1
years ago a freind of my aunties did exactly what you did winfield
they put the horse in the trap shes was 15.2hhs a couple of nights before there was a storm and a big oak tree had fallen down
anyways they hitched up this big lovely mare only to be bolted off
as thomas 1 says in a true bolt they panic and wont listen
the horse bolted of all over the place and hit the tree the trap over turned
the people escaped unharmed but bruised and shakened the horse didnt
the horse had to pts there and then as it had broken both it front legs and a lot of of broken areas
my point which i wanted to say - is you cant rush a horse and shouldnt rush it
if its not ready or if you have any doubts in your mind then dont put it to trap of any kind until it is ready
as in the long run-- it will only cause heart ache in more ways than one
This thread is so educational it might rightly be added to the FAQs??
Hi all,
I am new here, but have been driving for many years. I currently drive a pair of haflingers prelim and they are basically good boys, but I would never trust my right wheel gelding, Shane. Murphy, his partner, keeps him sane, but the one time Shane bolted (a true bolt out of fear - a new horse was in a field that we were passing and I honestly wasn’t prepared for Shane’s reaction to this horse’s fear of the carriage - so my fault), anyway, he took Murphy right along with him. My trainer was with us and between the two of us, we got them under control. I basically stood on the brakes so they were literally dragging the carriage down the dirt road and as they slowed a bit, he aimed them for a wood board fence that was in front of us, about 100 yards down. Shane came to his senses about 30ft. from the fence and we stopped without crashing.
We made it back to the barn and got a war bridle out - and the Boys spent the rest of their hour learning whoa (now!), with Shane in the war bridle. Much better than a hobble. Putting a hobble on a pony like Shane would probably send him over the edge. That was two years ago and now when Shane gets a bug in his ear, I play with the bit and move him on so I have the control. We haven’t bolted since.
In any event, I would never try to retrain anything by myself nor would I ever drive Shane by himself. But, I haven’t/won’t write him off either because the pair are really perfect with each other.
Thomas, i have read many of your posts and have great respect for your opinions and experience. You are absolutely right. I short cutted, and went forward expecting her to behave. My fault, i thought i knew this horse. Everyone who knows me and my experience keeps telling me it wasn’t my fault. But I disagree. There are a thousand things that led up to this accident. When my hands lay on the horse, I am responsible for their safety.
Some questions - in relation to the OP, can you stop a bolting horse by mouth alone or do you “wait them out” and run them through tough footing.
In a training situation, there are lots of setup and variables. What do you do when the bolt is unexpected. Not like mine, but like the original bolt with my friend who was in an outdoor arena. The turn of the arena was coming at her, she had to turn.
Unfortunately, there is the wicked and debatable fact that if we all waited for QUALIFIED assistance, some of us would never drive. It’s the helmet debate of the driving world. In a perfect world, we all have monsterous training carts, perfect landscape with plowed ground in arms reach at all times to run a horse into, and a bevy of able assistance to hold lines to the horse at all times.
Please know that I am not poopooing any opinions or training advice. Im just looking for an answer as to what do you do when a horse bolts under less than ideal circumstances. Can you truly bomb proof a driving horse?
( this is truly tongue in cheek, please don’t flame. I am trying to keep my spirits up)
Several sarcastic jokes have been tossed around amongst my closest.
The mare’s barn name is Babe.
“That’l do, pig, that’l do…”
Thoughts of a good old fashion pig roast have come to mind.
And I have decided the French have a good thing going. This mare is quite beefy although my concern would be her age, making her rather stringy…
For those of you wondering.
The mare ran so hard, she ripped off a front shoe and part of her quarter.
Other than that, there is not a bloomin’ mark on her…
I have been through the medical system. No breaks, no tendon, ligament damage. Did not injure my skull.
Have lots of chiro, massage, and physical therapy scheduled.
I look like a bad piece of fruit…
This is your question and it’s also your answer. You don’t trust her and she doesn’t trust you or anybody else to drive her. If she were mine I would not drive her again and the owner should not sell her on as a driving horse. That would be a terrible disservice both to the horse and to the buyer. She’s not a driving horse any more, no matter what her past was. That’s over. She’s had a series of very bad events and, being a Haflinger, she’s not going to forget them. The wonderful tenaciousness and self-preservation instincts of the Haflinger that help keep so many of us driving them happily and safely for years will also work against you when the horse has been traumatized like that. The tranquility and equilibrium that is at the heart of a good trustworthy Haflnger is gone as far as driving goes. She is going to put her survival ahead of any training that anybody could do with her and even if a super trainer with icewater in his veins can eventually get her driving again, the average driver is not going to be able to repeat that once she leaves the trainer’s. Retrain her as a riding horse or let her be a pasture ornament. Perhaps breed her one day if she’s registered, inspected & classified and has some good traits that the Haflinger gene pool needs.
JMO as someone who owns and loves Haflingers, knows a lot of people who own them and is fairly familiar with their traits.
winfieldfarm- don’t beat yourself up over this. Granted there were some steps you could have taken that may have prevented the accident, but you can’t change the past. The horse is no worse off than she was before you started working with her- mentally or physically- she was a bolter when she came to you and she’s still a bolter. Even if you had taken a lot of those precautions, it may still have happened, just may have ended differently- and not necessarily better. . (consider the options here, if the arena gate was closed and she’d tried to jump the fence . . .)
This is the whole reason I started this thread to begin with- these situations arise, and they are disasterous when they do. We need solutions to this problem as it almost always ends badly.
And you are absolutely right, most of us drive in less than ideal situations. Most people I know do not have the resources available to do this optimally, so we make do- good, bad or otherwise. . . and we’ve been doing it for a long time. I tend to think that most people who take the time to think about what they’re doing and how they could have done better are better off than those who don’t analyze their training programs at all.
Yes there were things that could have been changed. I am not sure the end result the mare bolting and running would have changed. I am not sure you would not have been equally hurt but in a different way. I still think this mare was spooky and learned that bigger spooks worked better at getting you out of work. She ran off an scared herself and is now a wreck. Is she worth the time and effort to rehabilitate into a reliable driving horse? Not in my mind. I would not hook her again single. I know Thomas disagrees with using a breaking horse and I don’t believe it to be the end all method of training. But hooked to a good horse and worked until her mind was engaged does help.
I know I could get her driving again with enough time and effort but why work one that is trying to kill you when there are good ones out there. The longer I do this the more I agree with what my grandfather said, In his day they did not have good horses they had broke horses. Now we have good horses but no broke horses. The difference is the genetics, the feed, and the health care was not there 70 years ago. But because the horses were used daily they were broke. I don’t fully agree with that because there are some that just do it wrong over and over but in general I think there is some truth to the statement. Now we have “trainers” that want to turn out finished horse in 30 days not 6 months to 6 years. I feel a true seasoned driving horse is similar to a dressage horse. It takes time and effort to get them there. Miles, sweaty collars, time, use, etc. Call it anything you want but don’t skimp on it. Now will this make a bomb proof horse? Absolutely not. There is no way to bomb proof a horse. You want a horse that trusts the driver enough that when scary stuff happens it is looking to you for direction. That takes time and use.
LF
[QUOTE=winfieldfarm;4342743]
Thomas, i have read many of your posts and have great respect for your opinions and experience. You are absolutely right. I short cutted, and went forward expecting her to behave. My fault, i thought i knew this horse. Everyone who knows me and my experience keeps telling me it wasn’t my fault. But I disagree. There are a thousand things that led up to this accident. When my hands lay on the horse, I am responsible for their safety.[/QUOTE]
I truly respect you for taking full responsibility.
My preference is of course to always learn from other people’s mistakes but next comes NEVER repeating the same mistake twice.
That means I’m not one for brushing things aside and shrugging my shoulders and saying “sh** happens”
I know whenever I’ve had anything similar happen that I too always critically reflect on everything that happened leading up to the incident and in so doing it means that I can learn and understand what I need to do differently.
Please know that I am not poopooing any opinions or training advice. Im just looking for an answer as to what do you do when a horse bolts under less than ideal circumstances.
As I said earlier, I honestly believe that if the horse has actually got to bolting then you do whatever it takes to stay safe. I believe that by that stage it’s just hope that it switches back it’s mind or runs out of steam.
It’s up to the bolt that you can do everything possible.
In a training situation, there are lots of setup and variables. What do you do when the bolt is unexpected. Not like mine, but like the original bolt with my friend who was in an outdoor arena. The turn of the arena was coming at her, she had to turn.
One of the advantages of driving a pair is that you’d be REALLY unlucky if both horses flipped their brains at the same time. In many ways pairs are “safer” for this sort of circumstance and it’s the reason why I always do commercial work with either a pair or a 4 in hand.
Can you truly bomb proof a driving horse?
If it’s a horse it will always be a flight and fright animal. What you can do though is do a heck of a lot to mitigate the possibilities and reduce the risks.
LF,
Your grandad was a wise man and generally I’m in total accord with what he said. I’m from a driving family and have been driving properly since I was 9. I was very lucky to be taught and mentored by some great coachmen and I learnt early on not to cut corners and not to rush things or pussy foot about.
The feed and general management is critical. The training and preparation is vital. It can never be too slow and can all too often be too quick.
There’s someone about 60 miles from me that puts them to harness in 6 weeks and right from the start. I normally get them about 3 months after the owner gets them back and after the first huge spook. One of the things he does is all the work is done in a flat relatively small arena. He even harnesses up there. I won’t do that. I want them to know what a big space is like. What it feels like for the carriage to bump over ruts and for the britching to come on as it runs downhill etc etc.
The other thing that is a feature nowadays is driver skill. Too often novice driving horses are passed over to novice drivers. Put bluntly they don’t have the skill and confidence to bring the horse on and to expose it carefully and under control to a wide range of experience without mishap.
There’s a lot to be said for experience and miles. For the horse and the driver.
Like you, I’m convinced that I would be able to stop the mare bolting. But as I often say to owners who come to me with the same problem.
That’s irrelevent. It wouldn’t be me that’s going to drive it. The owner doesn’t trust it and so there’s a lot of work to be done with the horse AND with the owner.
It’s a big commitment.
[QUOTE=LostFarmer;4342981]
I still think this mare was spooky and learned that bigger spooks worked better at getting you out of work. [/QUOTE] I do wonder about that. Particularly as it first happened when she’d just been put to a new carriage. I’m wondering if there’s something about that. I’m not a huge believer in “coinciditis”. Just a thought.
I know Thomas disagrees with using a breaking horse and I don’t believe it to be the end all method of training. But hooked to a good horse and worked until her mind was engaged does help.
It can indeed help with such circumstances and trust me I drive multiples for a reason and as I said earlier.
So long as it’s not taken as “training” but rather as experience then it can help with such circumstances.
Though personally I wouldn’t want to put such a horse next to an old faithful at least not till it had proven itself under long reins and in the way I described earlier.
LF - it’s a guess, but I imagine in the days (and modern places) where a horse is a using animal first and foremost, those that couldn’t do the job reliably or be fixed soon enough were sent on to the Italian sausage factory without a second thought. Or handed off to the local horse trader to pass on to some goober in the next town who didn’t know its history! Ever read Ben Green’s horse trading tales?
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
