emergency stop?

2fp,
You are absolutely correct. The year was 1944 and grandpa had just brought his 16 yo bride home to the ranch. He had one team but needed another to make hay that summer. He bought a belgain mare and a percheron gelding that were available. That belgain mare was balky, lazy and about half mean. She was always looking to hurt someone. Bite, kick, run over, she had no real preferance. But grandpa had hay to mow, rake and get in the stack. He also had a little dingo dog. She would bite on command either man or beast. Between dingo dog, grandpa and a good horse on the other side they made hay. That mare was sold the day that the last hay went in the stack. Grandpa would never look at a belgain after that.

I am not saying there were not problem then and there are now. But when you concider the number of horses being worked then to today you can see that the percentage of idiots was not any worse and they had half the breeding. Most of grandpas stock for work were the result of a heavy horse on the local range mares. For riding a TB stud on the local range mares. It was the local range mares that were the weak link. Basicly every horse broke was a step from feral. How many of todays trainers could get a team of mustangs going in 30 to 60 days? These horses were handled until you could get them hitched. That sometimes invloved twisting ears, blindfolds and twiches. But once in harness that horse was hooked in with one to 5 others and put to work. It didn’t take long for them to conform. Now I don’t like that method entirely. I think the horse needs to know what you are asking for. Long lining and ground work are the key. I won’t hook a horse until they have the ground work done but at that point I think it is time to show them work.

One of my sons little grey horses had a phobia of water. ALL water had horse eating beasts in it. I tried all the stuff trainers suggest then finally hooked him as a pair with the paint mare. She out wieghed him 200 lbs and she made the desisions. She is also honest and dependable. If you point her at something you better mean that is where you want to go. It rained hard one night and we awoke to puddles everywhere. I hooked then up and we drove. He tried jumping the water, skirting, shieing and the rest of the tricks. In the end he was drug through the water. He found out that A) the other horse isn’t scared and B) fighting it is useless. Ty is now a point and shoot horse. He will go where pointed and not much bothers him. I would still be fighting him if we hadn’t just get it done.

Ever see a child fall and look to mom to see if it should cry? I think our pussy footing around horses not making them do anything is the same thing. They look to us to see if they should be scared. Once they learn to be scared you have wreck. Training the horse is the easy part training the person is a B!tc#. :cool:

LF

Here is some interesting history on said Haflinger.

Grandpa breeds old style Haffies. Mare is born. Grandpa “breaks” horses the old fashion way - harness them, line them around a bit then pair them with ol’ faithful. I DO NOT agree with this method nor am I able to employ it anyway. regardless…another thread…

Grandpa sells said pony at age three. HHmmmm…Granddaughter (current owner) says mare has ALWAYS been scootchy about sudden noised behind her.

Grandpa passes, grandma says liquidate those damn ponies. my friend was not able to pruchase the mare she wanted from the sale. So off she goes for the next best thing, private sale from past owner of said mare.

In between driving, some riding, and lots of miles, she breeds mare once. Has nice colt, gelds at appropriate age and starts the driving training at 2.

Driving gelding, mare’s son, in dirt indoor of friends farm, alone. Horse has been hitched plenty and she is starting to ask a little more from him in response and movement. Nothing crazy, just trot out. I think she had hitched him with mama as a pair several times “for experience” but mare was pissy about it so she stopped.

noisy cart starts to rattle about, hits a rut in arena, horse spooks and bolts. She was alone, rightfully frightened and ran him full on into the wall. Of course he got tangled up, shaft in the armpit and such and she has to telephone help to get untangled.

Now, we can all debate her skills, training or lack thereof.

That is not my question. Two horses, mother and son, both spooky about noise behind. Is this from holes in the training or hereditary? Hmmmm…

And to the Haffie poster, you are absolutely right. Good Haffie = great haffie. scared haffie= survivalist. So would you breed?

Not a chance I would breed that mare. Some say mare is at least 60% of the cross and I believe it to be more like 70% of the cross. The foal learns so much that first few months with mama that if she is skittish then she teaches the baby to be skittish.

LF

Would I breed her? Probably not if by “old style” you mean short and drafty as that is not my preference among Haflinger types. But I wouldn’t base that decision on the fact that noise from behind scared them both. I’d say based on what you’ve provided that there were big holes in the training of both. This is unfortunately very common with Haflingers. Haflingers are their own worst enemy. The placid, accepting disposition of many Haflingers leads people to skip important steps in training. The young horse seems to easily accept being harnessed and hitched or saddled and mounted so why not hustle the training along and have yourself a finished horse in record time? The gaps in training don’t become evident until one day the horse explodes because she’s simply had enough of being made to do things she doesn’t know how to do. It happens a lot and invariably the horse gets blamed and sold on down the line and never does get the training she needs in order to become a useful equine citizen. And sadly, many end up at the meat market. It’s a double-edged sword for the breed be so well-known for its placid temperament.

As for the colt, he was only 2 and was probably way over-faced for his age and experience. I doubt if his wreck was due to a genetic trait that he inherited from his dam. I wasn’t there so I can’t say for sure and certainly I do believe that temperament can be an inherited trait. But the evidence to me would point to holes in the training of both as the culprit.

I agree, massive holes in the training. The scorn of the entire horse industry, no doubt. No breed is exempt, unfortunately.

my final thoughts on the emergency stop are these:
There is no black and white answer. We all know that horses are as individual as we are in their personalities. couple that with the fact that in their brains, they are still food, prey. If only they could speak…

be safe, train smart, watch yourselves and your horses…and have good medical insurance.

Off to P.T. for my knee…

IMO there’s nothing genetically wrong and lack of training isn’t an inherited condition :wink:

However to answer the would I breed her? NO WAY. Because in my opinion you don’t breed any horse unless it’s got something worth reproducing. This one is just an everyday pony breed. Unproven. No track record doing anything.

For that reason it’s hardly going to add to the quality of horses.

It needs to be sent to a trainer not to a stud farm.