Speaks for themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MGAP5dZc7
Sorry first one doesn’t show . Here’s another. These people are proud of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr4wdxkFQpA
In the above videos I was trying to point out that the pleasure classes are just as exciting without the big stacks.
[QUOTE=CFFarm;9036432]
Sorry first one doesn’t show . Here’s another. These people are proud of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr4wdxkFQpA
In the above videos I was trying to point out that the pleasure classes are just as exciting without the big stacks.[/QUOTE]
Omg. That’s a two-year-old! Not only padded and stacked to the nth degree; I also can’t get over the big heavy man riding her.
I am not sure what your point is with those videos.
You are comparing fast moving, lightly
padded Saddlebreds in The World Championships, to a small show 5 gaited Saddlebred pleasure class, to a Big Lick walking horse in a field.
The saddlebreds are lightly shod, fast moving and show brilliance.
The walking horse looks labored.
Ia not sure what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that you are OK with The the two videos of CH Bravo Blue and Red And Gold?
if so, why?
I don’t feel like sorting through a bunch of videos, so here is Our Charming Lady- WGC Three Gaited Horse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVLfpYNeug
This is supposed to be the epitome of the breed, I am sorry to say.
I LOVE my breed of horses, but I am disgusted by this kind of shoeing.
This is supposed to be the epitome of the breed, I am sorry to say.
and I will say it yet again…you keep trotting out the SAME example over and over again. The length of this horse’s foot …
IS NOT THE NORM…
…it is the exception. 99% or
better of the Teotting saddleseat
horsea do. It have a foot this big.
But guess what? This is the SAME horse you keep showing over and over because you want to show the extreme to try to prove your point because your argument just.isnt.strong.enough.
[QUOTE=Amwrider;9036966]
and I will say it yet again…you keep trotting out the SAME example over and over again. The length of this horse’s foot …
IS NOT THE NORM…
…it is the exception. 99% or
better of the Teotting saddleseat
horsea do. It have a foot this big.
But guess[/COLOR] what? This is the SAME horse you keep showing over and over because you want to show the extreme to try to prove your point because your argument just.isnt.strong.enough. [/QUOTE]
This isn’t about the strength of my argument. My argument is bullet proof. This is because I am too lazy to dig up a bunch more pix, or videos, frankly.
Your argument is laughable- and the people here know it. You cannot make a case for having more foot, weight or pads on a horse being good for them- it simply isn’t. The blacksmiths who make their living doing this know better, but it is where their bread is buttered.
You talk about horses with upright feet NEEDING pads. They don’t. They need to be trimmed properly, over a period of time. I have horses here who started with two very different feet. They are all barefoot, and sound. Why? Because we do it right. We don’t try and make them wear something that they shouldn’t, because our vanity dictates that they must. That exists in the show horse world.
Anyone else who did this to a horse, and then realized what they’d done, would be ashamed. However, people who make their living in this industry perpetuate this nightmare- over and over. And feel nothing. That is the saddest thing about it- except for what they are doing to the horses. That’s worse.
I’m going to make this easy. I do not want to infringe on any copyright issues, so go to this site: http://www.howardschatzberg.com/default.asp
Go to “show proofs”, and then to Louisville 2016, and then to Saturday Night, and then to classes 239, and 241.
There are photographs which clearly show packages on some of the horses feet that are truly frightening. And these are the best of the best.
So Amwrider, this is the recent stuff. And yes, it is JUST as bad as I have been describing.
People can also go and look at all the other classes on Saturday night and see all the other horses in all the other classes clear too. Take a look at the five gaitedS for example. Take a look at horses from the entire week.
Well, as long as they bear in mind that, while gaited horses in particular cannot go with too long a foot (they have to be able to trot and rack at speed) so, therefore, if they need it, the weight is concealed under the pads, or in the weight of the shoe.
Country Pleasure horses cannot wear pads- but there is no restriction on toe length. As for the rest? Lead can go under any pad, or be brazed into the heels of the shoe. It is amazing what you can find when you peel back the layers.
Here’s CH Our Charming Lady retired, sound and happy. I doubt if the Finch’s or the Orr’s would ever do anything they thought would harm the mare. I do know the farrier, next time I see him I’ll have to ask why she was shod that way.
https://www.facebook.com/HighCaliberStables/photos/a.219340397284.132988.149283542284/10152936680542285/?type=3&theater
Saddlebreds and Morgans frequently wear huge shoes. I’m not sure why one woman keeps trying to say otherwise…
[QUOTE=luvmyhackney;9037173]
Here’s CH Our Charming Lady retired, sound and happy. I doubt if the Finch’s or the Orr’s would ever do anything they thought would harm the mare. I do know the farrier, next time I see him I’ll have to ask why she was shod that way.
https://www.facebook.com/HighCaliberStables/photos/a.219340397284.132988.149283542284/10152936680542285/?type=3&theater[/QUOTE]
Absolutely- and look at her toe length, now. If it was healthy, they could keep her in all of that foot and shoe. But it isn’t.
This mare’s career was relatively short, because she was a Pro ride ONLY. Generally, the good thining horses get passed down to amateurs. This mare isn’t one of those. Therefore, when she’d won what she could, it was time to be done.
[QUOTE=Ladylexie;9037208]
Saddlebreds and Morgans frequently wear huge shoes. I’m not sure why one woman keeps trying to say otherwise…[/QUOTE]
According to her, this doesn’t happen anymore. But, if it does, it is still healthy for the horse.
I. Do. Not. Think. So. :winkgrin:
ASB Stars You are NOT a DVM or a farrier, and your opinion is far from bullet proof. There were a number of DVMs who testified at the USDA hearings on this matter and wrote letters of clarification and support to prove that you are incorrect. Our Chaming Lady is happily and sound as a dollar- I saw her in person last fall. She was at shows with USEF stewards and drug testing, which is far more important than you opinion on how she was shod.
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When we won the Virginia State 3 gaited championship in the 70’s no one was padded like in ASB’s video. It’s getting worse, not better. No defense for this kind of thing. I’ll say it again. It’s totally unnecessary for the sport. To show the best horse. It’s fashion plain and simple.
[QUOTE=morgans4me;9037308]
ASB Stars You are NOT a DVM or a farrier, and your opinion is far from bullet proof. There were a number of DVMs who testified at the USDA hearings on this matter and wrote letters of clarification and support to prove that you are incorrect. Our Chaming Lady is happily and sound as a dollar- I saw her in person last fall. She was at shows with USEF stewards and drug testing, which is far more important than you opinion on how she was shod.[/QUOTE]
They testified that the horses were not being sored. They didn’t say that this was in the best interest of the horse. That’s a whole different thing.
I didn’t say that the mare wasn’t happy, or sound now. I have no idea- but, in that video, she is carrying what most would consider an excessive length of foot- and no, you don’t have to be a blacksmith or a Vet to realize that.
Since USEF has NO rules governing hoof length- exactly what is your point about the shows? I certainly didn’t indicate- at any time- that what was done was illegal. Simply immoral.
No, they testified as to the soundness of the horses and as to how pads are not detrimental to long term soundness.
To All Concerned,
I am a veterinarian involved with a multitude of disciplinesin the horse industry. This includes American Saddlebreds, Morgans, Hackneyhorses and ponies, Arabians, Quarter horses, Friesians, Dutch Harness Horses,and jumping as well as Dressage disciplines. In other words, breeds that trot.My emphasis is sports and regenerative medicine and I have published numerousscientific articles and chapters in textbooks.
With consideration of the proposed USDA phraseologyconcerning the use of pads in show breeds of horses, it must be realized thatthe breeds that trot as mentioned above rely on soundness of movement whichdoes not involve or can be accomplished with pain. Breeds that trot thus arequite different from the Walking Horse with which the bill is primarilyconcerned. To include breeds that trot in this bill for governmental regulationis an unjustified overreach and lacks necessity without foundation.
I have been working with horses with normal shoeing and padsfor thirty nine years and do not consider it abusive or detrimental in anymanner and is integral in the proper distribution of concussion. The highaction breeds are bred for their movement and shoeing with normal pads protectsform the concussion that develops from the movement they naturally exhibit toooften in an environment surrounded by less than satisfactory ground surface forambulation. These horses like all horses, are concussive animals by naturebecoming more exceptional with their motion from genetics, not gimmick shoeing.Many of the most talented athletic horses I know wear very light shoes and ifnot protected would damage themselves rapidly in the man-made environment ofmost venues. Perhaps it would make just as much sense to have governmentalregulations concerning concrete and asphalt at such venues.
Please consider that construction worker shoes are heavierthan any shoe I see employed with these horses. By your phraseology with thisbill, any construction worker or person wearing leather shoes and even gymshoes would be out of compliance subject to governmental sanctions andambiguous interpretation, if they were a horse.
One of the reasons I enjoy the trotting breeds is that theyremain active into their 20’s in age. So, if their shoeing is so detrimental,that would be a difficult subject to show a reasonable argument.
In summary, I believe it would be more abusive to subjectthe “trotting” breeds to governmental regulation when the governmenthas no idea of the dynamics and distribution of concussion concerning theequine athlete. The impact of taking away the ability to protect thesewonderful athletes from proper distribution of concussion would be adevastatingly brutal effect of possible misinterpretation and misapplication ofthe bill as currently phrased.
Sincerely,
Scott Bennett DVM
This was the only one I saved, but there were others who wrote in that were members of the AAEP, and the USEF also had support from AAEP members when they opposed the original proposed regulations during the original comment period on the Federal Register
LadyLexie said
Saddlebreds and Morgans frequently wear huge shoes. I’m not sure why one woman keeps trying to say otherwise…
actually Morgans have shoeing regulations, and I am not against regulations being imposed on saddlebreds, but I AM OPPOSED to an outright ban on pads which is what ASB Stars is wanting.
ASB Stars is showing the most extreme cases and trying to pass them of as “the norm” but it is not the case. Shoeing is getting lighter and hooves are getting shorter. Horses that labor at their trot or labor at their rack do not look good and do not place well so they are now going by the wayside. You still have a few “old timers” that think bigger and heavier is better…you still have some people that will put a longer hoof or heavier package on their horse if their horse doesn’t have to trot quickly, but it is getting better.
And again, I say that when the horse industry turns on itself, not because of CRUELTY … but because of DISLIKE … then we are making it easier for the Animal Rights people to get rid of us industry by industry.
Putting a heavier shoe on a horse or putting a 1 inch stack of pads on a horse does not equate to cruelty. It does no harm unless someone does something stupid.
FACE IT You are against it because YOU DON"T LIKE IT. Period.
That is not a valid reason to try to legislate it away.
Again, I say it…it is a slippery slope when we start banning and legislating things because we don’t like it.
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