Enlighten me: what does the AKC do for dogs?

Because most of what I know about them (admittedly not tons, as I have never been active in the show world other than as a spectator) does not make me like them. And I love watching dog shows!

I don’t see ANY requirements for registering a litter other than having a traceable pedigree from the closed stud books. Sure, there are lots of individual breeders who are responsible and diligent about health and temperament testing, but the AKC has no rules in place preventing someone from registering a litter of, say, Cavaliers with defective hearts, or even requiring spay-neuter in those cases. They’ll cheerfully take the litter-registration money. Which, as we know, enables the puppy millers who churn out litter after litter. Those Golden Retrievers might be green and have three ears and five legs, but hey, they’re AKC!

I know a lot of working dog people hate the AKC because of the emphasis on conformation rather than performance - can the dog, with proper training, do the job its breed was developed to do? No, the AKC wants “pretty”; must be between X and X number of inches tall with a coat like this, and these colors/markings are undesireable. “Can he herd?” isn’t important. “Can he stack?” is critical.

Again, I am not knocking the individual breeders who work hard to eliminate congenital defects in the dogs they breed, who screen their pups’ buyers carefully and have iron-clad contracts with spay-neuter and return-to-breeder clauses.

So, please, I’d like to hear from “the other side”. I really am posting this from ignorance, not trying to start a firestorm. I’d like to know some GOOD things about the AKC.

The AKC doesn’t care if your dog can stack, either. :wink:

Registering a litter is not difficult, and therefore means pretty much nothing when considering a dog or breeder. As you’ve mentioned, it takes nothing to register your litter and call it “AKC registered”. Something like $35…big deal. There is no requirement for a dog to meet ANY of the AKC conformation standards in order to be registered…so being “pretty” and “X inches tall” doesn’t matter either.

But AKC championships and titles DO mean something, and are a big deal. The dog has to PROVE that it earned the title…and championship (competitive) titles mean they have to BEAT other dogs in order to get it…not just meet the criteria…(e.g. only one dog and bitch wins the points in a conformation show, even if lots of them “meet the standard” of the breed.)

It’s definitely not the AKC’s job to weed out the puppy mills from the good breeders for registrations…the definition is simple breeding. (Just like my registered paint…) But the AKC does make dogs prove their merits before they hand out championships and titles. :slight_smile:

But why NOT have some restrictions on health-related issues? I know one obvious answer is the huge increase in the amount of paperwork that would result. Seems to me that such guidelines would be mostly welcomed by the responsible breeders and kennels, and might just discourage some of the marginal or lousy ones.

*And I know health issues are not always black and white, especially when it comes to OFA ratings.

As I mentioned in Post #1, I love spectating at the shows and have tons of respect for finished champions. It’s not easy or cheap to do, and obviously it’s fun for the dogs who do well (as dogs Who Are Not Having Any Fun tend not to disguise their feelings on the matter)!

AKC keeps the records and pedigrees for all its recognized breeds and for some not yet recognized breeds that want to use its facilities. AKC keeps the records of wins and points for all AKC events, including but not limited to, conformation, obedience, agility, herding, lure coursing, field trials, hunting tests, earth dog tests, tracking tests and CGC. AKC licences all these events and makes sure they are put on properly, down to size of venue and emergency preparedness. AKC representatives police all these events to make sure the rules are followed. AKC kennel inspectors visit large breeders, inspect their facilities and records and does random DNA testing. The AKC crackdown on “puppy mills” resulted in many puppy mill and backyard breeders leaving the AKC and forming their own kennel club the Continental Kennel Club or CKC. The CKC has little to no requirements for registration. AKC funds research into canine medical and genetic issues. AKC trains and licenses judges for all its recognized events.

AKC, AQHA, Jockey Club, they are registries and can only set certain rules of registration.

If they try to restrict registrations too much, they get sued.
Ask the AQHA, that lost tremendous amounts of their funds fighting a lawsuit about how much white was permissible to register a horse … and lost.

No registry today will just say now you can’t register this or that offspring without these requirements, not if they are too restrictive.

The way the law sees this, if you have two duly registered parents, be it dogs or horses or hamsters, the offspring should be unquestionably subject to registration.

It is up to the breeders to test and breed the best to the best and for the best health possible in the offspring.

That is one reason registries can’t do much more than, well, register and run shows, etc.

When it comes to breeding, the breeders of duly registered parents have rights too, as per the law.

The AKC is not who determines what makes a breed that breed.
The AKC is made of breed clubs and those are who write and rewrite the standards by which each breed is judged.

Our performance dog club went thru the AKC requirements in the 1970’s to become certified by the AKC and hold obedience shows.
Later agility and so much else was added, all regulated by the AKC.
In our rather remote area, we would not have had any dog shows all those years without the AKC.

[QUOTE=wireweiners;5860458]
AKC keeps the records and pedigrees for all its recognized breeds and for some not yet recognized breeds that want to use its facilities. AKC keeps the records of wins and points for all AKC events, including but not limited to, conformation, obedience, agility, herding, lure coursing, field trials, hunting tests, earth dog tests, tracking tests and CGC. AKC licences all these events and makes sure they are put on properly, down to size of venue and emergency preparedness. AKC representatives police all these events to make sure the rules are followed. AKC kennel inspectors visit large breeders, inspect their facilities and records and does random DNA testing. The AKC crackdown on “puppy mills” resulted in many puppy mill and backyard breeders leaving the AKC and forming their own kennel club the Continental Kennel Club or CKC. The CKC has little to no requirements for registration. AKC funds research into canine medical and genetic issues. AKC trains and licenses judges for all its recognized events.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I did not know that about the kennel inspections, crackdown on puppy mills and the resultant CKC formation. This is why I asked the question - the AKC gets blamed for an awful lot.

[QUOTE=Mara;5860739]
Thank you. I did not know that about the kennel inspections, crackdown on puppy mills and the resultant CKC formation. This is why I asked the question - the AKC gets blamed for an awful lot.[/QUOTE]

Any time you are the big kid in the playground, you are also the lightning rod for all discontents.
Goes with the territory, everyone knows better than you how you should run your business.

Some times, criticism is warranted and the AKC has changed over the years, has added what the public asked for, CGC, canine good citizen, rally, many changes in agility, etc.

I think the AKC needs a better PR agent to tell their story.:wink:

[QUOTE=Mara;5860444]
But why NOT have some restrictions on health-related issues? I know one obvious answer is the huge increase in the amount of paperwork that would result. Seems to me that such guidelines would be mostly welcomed by the responsible breeders and kennels, and might just discourage some of the marginal or lousy ones.

*And I know health issues are not always black and white, especially when it comes to OFA ratings.

As I mentioned in Post #1, I love spectating at the shows and have tons of respect for finished champions. It’s not easy or cheap to do, and obviously it’s fun for the dogs who do well (as dogs Who Are Not Having Any Fun tend not to disguise their feelings on the matter)![/QUOTE]

I think this is already answered in other posts, but being registered is just a verification of the breeding. It doesn’t mean anything other than that. I think it would be unfathomably difficult for the AKC to take on the job of restricting registrations based on quality of the litters. Even GOOD litters aren’t generally judged until they are at least 6 months old. Most dogs don’t get hip evaluations until they are 2…

So the AKC could potentially demand better verification of proof that the litter is truly worthy of registration (DNA), but it would still be pretty darn hard to “judge” puppies for registration.

Which is why people really need to understand that “AKC registered” means very, very little…except to say that the parents are most likely to have been from a known lineage. That’s all.

[QUOTE=Bluey;5860765]
Some times, criticism is warranted and the AKC has changed over the years, has added what the public asked for, CGC, canine good citizen, rally, many changes in agility, etc.[/QUOTE]

The only real criticism I’ve heard about the AKC has been from herding dog people (Border Collies), some of whom prefer not to show in AKC shows because of the emphasis on conformation and not performance. I don’t know if this is just a few people’s opinion, or something else.

The parent breed clubs should hold the ultimate standard for each breed…and if breeders don’t agree with those standards then there might be an issue. But I’m not sure the AKC is to blame for having the same standards for conformation champions for working or herding dogs as they do for other breeds?

I know that my dog’s national breed club does not admit a dog into the Hall of Fame without a field championship. They made an exception a year or two ago for a dog that won over 50 all breed best of breeds…but I suppose that is such a huge accomplishment they felt it was worth making the exception.

The way I heard it when it was going on, some 15 years ago or so, at that time we were training herding dogs, the old border collie club tried to work with the AKC about requiring performance before giving CH titles to conformation dogs.
That didn’t happen in the end, the bc people felt misled and so they didn’t follow with AKC accreditation for bcs thru them.

At the same time, some bc breeders formed their own bc club and followed AKC guidelines for registering their club with the AKC and so now we have bcs in the AKC, but not the true working bcs, according to the old bc association.

That happened long ago, many since have crossed older working lines and many agility dogs come from those also.

In the end, the AKC did what they needed to do at that time, maybe they misled them, maybe not, who knows.

There are still some bad feelings about this in the working bc community, trying to preserve the bc working style over all else.
The AKC and their bc breeders don’t care, they follow their own drummer, many do train for herding also, some compete in herding trials, but the better working lines are still coming from the old bc registry, I think.

http://www.akc.org/affiliates/car/CSRfund.cfm

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=4479

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=4438

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=4438

http://www.akc.org/news/disaster_preparedness/relief_award.cfm

the AKC funds many programs along with registering litters, recognizing achievements and sanctioning shows.

It’s like the jockey club or any other breed registry. As long as you follow the rules, you can breed any piece of crap and register it. At least AQHA put their foot down about the Impressive line and HYPP.

Rough and smooth collies too.

[QUOTE=LauraKY;5860872]
Rough and smooth collies too.[/QUOTE]

I have never heard any controversy about rough or smooth collies.
Our small animal vet used to breed and show both and other dog club members have also, one just now has smooths.
No one has talked about this.:confused:

I know about the bc controversy, because at that time I knew the bc representative that went to NY to meetings with the AKC executives.

A quick google of “puppy sale” will bring up such a slew of horrible backyard breeders whose pups are ALL registered - undoubtedly with joke registries that exist to legitimize small-time puppy millers - that the AKC starts to look pretty good. They at least have some competition element and some standards. I’m not a fan, though, particularly after coming across a copy of the Gazette which reported on the 2008 (I believe) general meeting where the focus was on recapturing the market by getting deeply into bed with the mills.

All that said, I love AKC dog shows, and will buy a purebred puppy one day. Plenty of nice people in the AKC, and lots of nice dogs, and dog shows have the best shopping! :slight_smile:

The Jack Russell Terrier Club of America was formed because its founder believed that bringing JRTs into the AKC would be the ruination of the breed. At first all was good when everyone was on the same page. Then the Breeders Committee of the JRTCA started lobbying for joining up with the AKC. They felt there would be better marketability for puppies if they could be advertised as ‘AKC registered’. They also felt that being able to compete in AKC shows would allow wider participation in shows because at the time most terrier trials were only held in the mid-atlantic and northeast.The breeders group eventually split off, formed a Stud Book, and so became the AKC Parson Russell Terrier.

But for many of the reasons the OP mentioned, Ailsa Crawford felt a dog should not be able to be registered before it was a year old and should be healthy in order to receive registered status (ie. breeding quality). Each JRT who applies for registration has to be examined by a vet who not only signs a detailed certification (eyes, nose color, hearing, heart, soundness among other things) but must also sign the back of three pictures to prove the dog examined is the dog in the photographs. A four generation pedigree must be provided, and a signed stud certificate from the owner of the stud dog. If a dog cannot qualify for registration, upon proof of spay/neuter can be recorded and compete for the same titles and certificates as intact dogs. The other big difference is that Mrs. Crawford felt that the AKC’s route to the title Champion was flawed. An AKC dog must win 15 points to become a Championship, and at least 9 points must be ‘majors’ where a dog beats a required number of dogs to earn points. Majors are often ‘staged’ by competitors who bring extra dogs who are clearly 2d rate, or not groomed properly or handled by novices; anything to pump up the number of dogs showing so that the desired 3 pt. major can be awarded.

In contrast, Jack Russells have no permanent title prefixes added to their name no matter how many ‘Bests’ s/he may have won in the ring. They are ‘best’ on the day, and the next time out they start out on an even playing field with every other dog. Although quality does tell, and it’s not uncommon to see the same 6-10 dogs take the Best Open or Best Working Terrier titles in any given year.

Jacks DID have some health issues, Primary Lens Luxation, and deafness among them. Through tireless work by the Jack Russell Research Foundation, a genetic marker for PLL has been found and now all stud dogs and breeding bitches should be tested. Carriers can be bred, but MUST be bred to a dog that is DNA tested to be clear and NOT a carrier. Most JRTCA registered breeders are thrilled to be able to know their dogs status, and proudly advertise it on their websites. As a breed group, we’ve tested for hearing (BAER) and CERF (eyes) for over 15 years.

It used to be that you could get a permanent height card for your terrier when it reached its 1st birthday. Now you can be protested up until 18 mos because we’ve found the little blighters grow until then :wink:

The club also reserves the right to do inspections of breeders kennels and there HAVE been breeders kicked out of the club and their registrations voided for keeping dogs in squalor, falsifying records, and cosmetically altering their dogs.

So, there are other registries who really care about the breed. Our motto is Preserve, Protect and Work the Jack Russell Terrier and we do!

That is true and another group formed and was certified by the AKC as a Jack Russel Club.
Then the original group sued the AKC and won.
The AKC had to change their breed’s name, now called Parson Russels.
If I remember right, their standard only accepts the longer legged ones, not the short ones, as the original club does.

[QUOTE=Bluey;5861230]
That is true and another group formed and was certified by the AKC as a Jack Russel Club.
Then the original group sued the AKC and won.
The AKC had to change their breed’s name, now called Parson Russels.
If I remember right, their standard only accepts the longer legged ones, not the short ones, as the original club does.[/QUOTE]

oh so that explains the whole Jack Russel vs Parsons Russel thing to me, thanks!

One of the earliest members of the JRTCA, Marilyn Mackay-Smith (wife of Alexander) was very forward thinking and trademarked the name Parson Jack Russell Terrier in the early 80’s, nimbly preventing the Jack Russell Breeders Club of America from using the word Parson. Mrs. Mackay-Smith ‘gave’ the trademark to a woman she trusted in the JRTCA when she downsized her breeding when Alex became frail. When the lawsuit was going on (with the JRTCA trying to prove that the Jack Russell was a type, not a breed) one of the sticking points was if the dogs were, in fact, two different breeds (albeit the JRTCA dog was a ‘type’) how come they had the same name? To Mrs. Mackay-Smith’s horror, the woman she’d entrusted the trademark to, SOLD the trademark to the other club, enabling them to finally call themselves Parson Russell Terriers. She dropped her membership and has nothing to do with the club these days.

Bluey is right; the standard for the Parson Russell Terrier is virtually the same as the JRTCA’s albeit in the taller height range. (JRTCA terriers come 10-12 1/2" and 12 1/2" - 15"). The latest addition to the AKC books is the Russell Terrier, very similar to our smaller height dogs, but more barrel shaped, and bigger headed.

If you look at pictures of the original fox terriers from the 1880s you would see the same dogs I show today. If you look at the Parsons from 2001 and today, you’ll see the same transformation happening - the terriers are getting bigger and groomed, just like what happened to the Fox Terrier in the early 1900s.

[QUOTE=S1969;5860789]
The only real criticism I’ve heard about the AKC has been from herding dog people (Border Collies), some of whom prefer not to show in AKC shows because of the emphasis on conformation and not performance. I don’t know if this is just a few people’s opinion, or something else.

The parent breed clubs should hold the ultimate standard for each breed…and if breeders don’t agree with those standards then there might be an issue. But I’m not sure the AKC is to blame for having the same standards for conformation champions for working or herding dogs as they do for other breeds?

I know that my dog’s national breed club does not admit a dog into the Hall of Fame without a field championship. They made an exception a year or two ago for a dog that won over 50 all breed best of breeds…but I suppose that is such a huge accomplishment they felt it was worth making the exception.[/QUOTE]

There is quite a bit more criticism about the AKC than from the Border Collie people. Many of the organized hunting groups shun AKC and go for various field oriented registries, among them UKC for United Kennel Club not United Kingdom, some used CKC before the economy went through the utopian “Information Age” and destroyed the industrial and agricultural part of the economy which in turn created the bubble economy. People began desperately trying to make money in backyard breeding situations.

I find what AKC has permitted be done through the emphasis either on hunting or other breed specific abilities or conformation through the show ring, really, really destroyed some nice breeds such as the Rough Collie, the German Shepherd, Irish Setter, even the Labrador Retriever with the emphasis on the squatty, lumbering English type that was so hot for a while. Now it is nearly white labradors! Or dogs that have no desire to swim, let alone hunt… Yes, they can have a very big influence on type and genetics through the show ring and or breed specific traits organizations, be they hunting, coursing, herding, etc. And yes, I believe they can improve vastly.

But, the big culprit is the American people or whomever buys these dogs and in their ignorance perpetuates a seemingly never ending series of “fad” dogs created by Hollywood or celebrities. The miniaturization of various breeds is just one of those “fads”. When we were more purposeful as a country, our dogs were more purposeful and healthy. If we need to bring in outside breedings to improve a breed that becomes too line bred to remain healthy, we should have enough sense, and not be ideologically myopic or fanatical to not know that this can be done and can be done well and right. After all, where did these breeds come from in the first place? The dog which “began” the German Shepherd breed was seen and “discovered” at the side of a sheep herder at either a sheep herding competition or farm show of some type in Germany. There are hundreds of such stories for all of the breeds that were developed. We just have to get over this period in our history where fanaticism seems to rule in so many areas, and improve our lives in so many ways, among those will be how we improve the discussions about where the breeds are going and where we need and want them to go so that they do not end up in the dustbin of history along with a country and world that cannot seem to rid itself of all manner of corruption, political, economic and otherwise.

It is a far bigger question than just how the AKC has or has not added to the obviously big problems with have with our beloved dogs.