Enlighten me: what does the AKC do for dogs?

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=mhhealey;5866622]
Merely getting a puppy with papers won’t be nearly enough to maximize the odds of getting a breedworthy dog. You’re looking for a puppy of a certain breed whose breeder registers, who health tests, who performance tests, who temperament tests. Registration is no guarantee of the other criteria; it’s only one possible component in finding a breeder whose goals align with your own.[/QUOTE]

mhhealey, what do you know about me? Do you know how long I’ve had dogs, what I’ve done with the dogs I have/had, or what my goals are?

I never said that I would NOT do those things. I never indicated in any way that I am unaware of criteria or how to find a breeder. I also never led anyone to believe that registration is guarantee of anything. I know the breeder I will be approaching, she knows me. We have had a long standing relationship and she breeds dogs that meet my criteria.

[Arizona_DQ]

[QUOTE=sisu27;5866536]
I struggle mightily to understand how so many self professed dog lovers would rather spend thousands of dollars to get a dog with papers then save the life of another of the same breed. I just can’t understand that. QUOTE]

Very easy, IF all the good breeders quit breeding that would only leave the backyard breeders. I understand that not all health issues can be predicted, heck we cannot predict health issues in humans!!! But at least the “good breeders” are doing and trying to do the right thing by the breed.

There are no guarantees, but I can tell you that in my breed, we have seen an increase in hemangiosarcoma deaths and now a handful of breeders working in concert with the Parent Club have gotten involved with a study of this in dachshunds being conducted by some major researchers here in the US. Breeders are submitting DNA samples from their dogs to help in this research… We cannot quarantee that no dog will die of this, but we are doing our best to help support the research!

[Mara]

[QUOTE=Arizona DQ;5866726]

[QUOTE=sisu27;5866536] I struggle mightily to understand how so many self professed dog lovers would rather spend thousands of dollars to get a dog with papers then save the life of another of the same breed. I just can’t understand that. QUOTE]

Very easy, IF all the good breeders quit breeding that would only leave the backyard breeders. I understand that not all health issues can be predicted, heck we cannot predict health issues in humans!!! But at least the “good breeders” are doing and trying to do the right thing by the breed.

There are no guarantees, but I can tell you that in my breed, we have seen an increase in hemangiosarcoma deaths and now a handful of breeders working in concert with the Parent Club have gotten involved with a study of this in dachshunds being conducted by some major researchers here in the US. Breeders are submitting DNA samples from their dogs to help in this research… We cannot quarantee that no dog will die of this, but we are doing our best to help support the research![/QUOTE]

I’ve long ago changed my thinking on shelter adoptions and purchases from private breeders. You can be in favor of both, and it depends on what an individual is looking for when they’re planning to add a dog to the household.

My sister and her husband spent a considerable amount to acquire a comparatively rare breed dog, one that isn’t available commercially because successful pregnancies among the bitches are hard to maintain and early puppy deaths are sadly common. Even if the breed WAS available in any backyard, they’d still have sought out a breeder with a good reputation. They didn’t want a show dog, just a pet, but they wanted this breed, especially after meeting several breeders and dogs.

My sister felt guilty for a long time; all she could think was how much good all that money could have done for their local shelter.

But you know, they wanted what they wanted. Just because someone has their heart set on a specific breed with specific traits doesn’t mean they are evil people. Sis and her husband still supported the shelter. And there are some breed-specific traits that make a dog, for whatever reasons, best suited for certain homes and people. Not to say you can’t find those same traits in shelter mutts, but you have better odds if you look for a breed know to have a strong propensity for whatever characteristics you want.

[wireweiners]

For those of you who say that AKC is all about the money, I would point out that AKC is a non profit organization. There are no stockholders or private owners. AKC has paid staff but it “belongs” to its member clubs which have delegates that vote on issues affecting the purebred dog registry and the competition event. The money that AKC makes from registrations actually subsidizes its competition branches, research legislative issues etc. Which leads to the rather uncomfortable position of the large breeders actually subsidizing the activities of the show and performance breeders. When AKC began cracking down on puppy mills and many of them pulled out to join the CKC, AKC lost revenue. Plus many puppy buyers failed to follow through with individually registering their dogs which caused an additional loss of revenue. To be able to continue to fund their competition activities, research, etc. AKC began to look for additional sources of revenue plus at ways to encourage the puppy buying public to purchase AKC registered dogs and register the dogs individually. One of the things they looked into were “partnerships” with large breeders such as the Hunte Bros. This did cause quite a furor among the delegates and I believe was voted down. As distasteful as I find the Hunte Bros. operations, there were some pluses to the AKC plan. The Hunte Bros were going to mass produce dogs anyway. If they continued to register dogs with AKC, they would at least subject themselves to the AKC inspections which did try to ensure that the dogs were kept in humane conditions and that the record keeping was reasonably accurate. It was an awkward position to say the least. On the one hand, AKC was trying to keep the mass breeders “in the fold” so to speak but on the other, the 1000’s of licensed and member clubs were passing out AKC produced literature about buying pups from responsible breeders, spaying and neutering pets and the importance of genetic testing before breeding.

As ArizonaDQ pointed out, the conformation standards are supposed to describe the perfect physical specimen of the breed that would allow it to perfom the job for which it is bred. The divergence of conformation types and performance types is the fault of both the conformation only breeders and the performance only breeders. IMO, it is just as wrong to breed only for performance capability as it is to breed only for physical appearance. A good breeder should strive for both and it can be done. Arizona and I both have dachshunds. I am proud to say that dachshunds have one of the highest percentages of dual (field and show) championships of any AKC breed. There is a respectable number of triple champion dachshunds, tracking, field and show. I have known many top winning conformation dachshunds that went one to perform well in the field. So a conformation dog should be able to perform in the field and a performance dog should bear more than just a passing resemblance to its breed.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=wireweiners;5866956]
So a conformation dog should be able to perform in the field and a performance dog should bear more than just a passing resemblance to its breed.[/QUOTE]

the whole post was outstanding. Good job wireweiners!

[Sonesta]

Arizona, I just do not understand your belief that “WE ALL have to fight against this type of legislation or we will lose all ablility to breed dogs. That is the ultimate goal…”

Forcing the large commercial breeders to get licensed and be inspected and get basic care for their dogs is a GOOD THING. How can you possibly read into that some sinister ulterior motive to ultimately disallow all breeding?

You have bought into the “sky is falling” hysteria.

READ the legislation. Don’t take AKC or anyone else’s word for it. READ IT YOURSELF.

None of the legislation applies to anyone with “x number of bitches” alone. All of the legislation says “x number of bitches AND they are used for breeding AND you sell at least x number of puppies each year.”

And if you DID fall into that category, why would you be so frightened of paying a licensing fee and having your kennel inspected?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5867077]
Arizona, I just do not understand your belief that “WE ALL have to fight against this type of legislation or we will lose all ablility to breed dogs. That is the ultimate goal…”

Forcing the large commercial breeders to get licensed and be inspected and get basic care for their dogs is a GOOD THING. How can you possibly read into that some sinister ulterior motive to ultimately disallow all breeding?

You have bought into the “sky is falling” hysteria.

READ the legislation. Don’t take AKC or anyone else’s word for it. READ IT YOURSELF.

None of the legislation applies to anyone with “x number of bitches” alone. All of the legislation says “x number of bitches AND they are used for breeding AND you sell at least x number of puppies each year.”

And if you DID fall into that category, why would you be so frightened of paying a licensing fee and having your kennel inspected?[/QUOTE]

Because of who will be inspecting and what more regulations will be then piled on the initial ones.

If I remember, the bill I read was fuzzy in too many important ways the kennels were to be inspected and fined or closed down.
Any overzealous inspector could do so easily with little reason.
The same with the breed specific bills, that are so questionable about what a breed any one dog is, that being up to interpretation, as studies show.

Do talk to the AKC, at least you will know what their thoughts are and then you can agree or disagree with them.
Just reading the bills without any background on the issues won’t by far tell you enough.
Right now, you don’t have but one side of these stories, those of the AR groups pushing for those law changes in every state, that is their stated goal in their fight to “liberate the animals”.

[Pcostx]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5867077]
Arizona, I just do not understand your belief that “WE ALL have to fight against this type of legislation or we will lose all ablility to breed dogs. That is the ultimate goal…”

Forcing the large commercial breeders to get licensed and be inspected and get basic care for their dogs is a GOOD THING. How can you possibly read into that some sinister ulterior motive to ultimately disallow all breeding?

You have bought into the “sky is falling” hysteria.

READ the legislation. Don’t take AKC or anyone else’s word for it. READ IT YOURSELF.

None of the legislation applies to anyone with “x number of bitches” alone. All of the legislation says “x number of bitches AND they are used for breeding AND you sell at least x number of puppies each year.”

And if you DID fall into that category, why would you be so frightened of paying a licensing fee and having your kennel inspected?[/QUOTE]

GREAT POST!! Amen!

[Sonesta]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

We cannot possibly force the bad guys to properly care for their animals, because then soon, they will target EVERYONE.

Ridiculous!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5867208]
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

We cannot possibly force the bad guys to properly care for their animals, because then soon, they will target EVERYONE.

Ridiculous![/QUOTE]

You forget all the laws already in the books that address exactly all that, without specifics of sizes and amounts and all that?

What we need is more money for good enforcement, not more laws.
Where more laws are needed, I sure don’t want them to be animal rights driven ones.
The one bill I read was really absurd in their requirements.
About like saying what size stall horses need, all horses, in all circumstances.:eek:

Why don’t you want to ask the AKC?
Easier to just bash them for doing something you don’t understand why they are doing it?

If all you can say is “the sky is falling”, I will respond that some still have their heads in the sand, when it comes to the AR groups and what they are after.:no:

[Sonesta]

I am not a basher of AKC. In fact, I am a Breeder of Merit with them.

But I recognize that they have motives that are finacial and understandable.

Why do you feel that I must ask AKC for their interpretation of bills instead of reading and interpreting them myself???

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5867331]
I am not a basher of AKC. In fact, I am a Breeder of Merit with them.

But I recognize that they have motives that are finacial and understandable.

Why do you feel that I must ask AKC for their interpretation of bills instead of reading and interpreting them myself???[/QUOTE]

Try interpreting what I am saying, that is not that they help you read the bills, but that they explain why they are against them, which may not even have anything to do with what the supporters of the bills want them to sound they do, but how they are written or who is behind them.
I don’t know the answers to that and you evidently don’t either.
Neither does anyone here, I think.

That is why I suggest you ask the source of your irritation, the AKC.:yes:

[Sonesta]

I have read why they state they are against the bills, and I have found their reasons unsatisfactory and transparently finacially based. And I find their propaganda astonishing in its ability to cause the casual reader to look to the skies.

I prefer to read the bills and make up my own mind. I don’t need a registry (that will be very negatively affected financially by these bills) to interpret them for me.

I am sorry that you do.

Why must you assume the AKC has no agenda and is not engaged in its own propaganda?

Consider that maybe, just maybe, these bills are actually aimed at controlling the horrible conditions of the puppy mills and NOT aimed at preventing everyone from breeding dogs. Is that just too much for you to accept?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5867395]
I have read why they state they are against the bills, and I have found their reasons unsatisfactory and transparently finacially based. And I find their propaganda astonishing in its ability to cause the casual reader to look to the skies.

I prefer to read the bills and make up my own mind. I don’t need a registry (that will be very negatively affected financially by these bills) to interpret them for me.

I am sorry that you do.[/QUOTE]

I see your point, you keep insisting “they are interpreting them for you” and you don’t like that.

Well, can’t say much about that, as long as you refuse to look at other angles and motivations in these important fights the animal rights groups are bringing to our door steps. There is nothing I can add when only looking at one facet of these topics.:no:

[Sonesta]

For DOG’s sake, Bluey, why do you insist that a law aimed at protecting dogs from horrid puppy mill conditions is an Animal Rights FREAKs’ law? Do you not see that is simply hysteria? And ridiculous?

Were the laws initiated many years ago requiring that dogs get rabies shots ALSO an incidious PETA plan? Or was it simply a law that helped protect dogs from a terrible disease?

Please. Show me the hidden motivation of the PETA fools in having these laws in place? And tell me how the good such laws will do are outweighed by the BAD they will do?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;5867429]
For DOG’s sake, Bluey, why do you insist that a law aimed at protecting dogs from horrid puppy mill conditions is an Animal Rights FREAKs’ law? Do you not see that is simply hysteria? And ridiculous?

Were the laws initiated many years ago requiring that dogs get rabies shots ALSO an incidious PETA plan? Or was it simply a law that helped protect dogs from a terrible disease?

Please. Show me the hidden motivation of the PETA fools in having these laws in place? And tell me how the good such laws will do are outweighed by the BAD they will do?[/QUOTE]

The AKC is fighting many such animal rights pushed laws in several states.
Anything I say is not going to make any difference here, evidently.

I will repeat, why don’t you ask them why directly?

[libgrrl]

Thank you, Sonesta!

[Sonesta]

[QUOTE=Bluey;5867450]
The AKC is fighting many such animal rights pushed laws in several states.

I will repeat, why don’t you ask them why directly?[/QUOTE]

You seem to refuse to accept that I DO know the AKC’s reasoning and have found it transparent and unacceptable.

Look. It really is quite simple. These laws will result in MANY puppy mills being refused licenses. This, in turn, will result in many THOUSANDS of puppies not being registered with AKC - thus, costing AKC many thousands (probably millions) of dollars each year.

AKC would be crazy not to fight these laws for that reason. \

But the fact remains that any breeding establishment that cannot or will not meet the requirements of these bills NEEDS to be shut down. And the dog world will be better for it - even if AKC loses some money.

[libgrrl]

Actual quote from one of the “Kennel Spotlight” articles:

“Volunteer to help at your local humane shelter. Get to know those people and
become friends with them. “Know thy enemy”.”

Seriously? I hope that is just the attitude of the “fringe” folks in Commercial Breederland, but I don’t know sometimes…

I come from the shelter/rescue world, but I have family members who are breeders (the “reputable” kind) as well, and I love dog shows. There is room to meet in the middle and educate the “bleeding hearts” about the differences between breeders, and how good breeders don’t contribute to shelter populations. I think that will go miles farther than treating animal shelters like “the enemy.”

[Arizona_DQ]

The large commercial kennels are already required to be licensed and inspected by the USDA.

Do not you understand that once limits are imposed it is very easy to lower the limit, to eventually target all breeders; THAT is the goal. To think otherwise is to have you head buried in the sand…

Some of the proposed legislation evern regulates the type of flooring and housing for the dogs, meaning the dogs could not even be housed in your own house… separate kennel building.

I resent that anyone wants to inspect my home!!! I have nothing to hide, but my HOME is my own!

Why should I have to pay more for a license on a dog that is not neutered or spayed? My dogs do not wind up in the animal shelters, nor do any that I have produced!!! My dogs do not run loose and breed.

Of course, this argument is going no where as long as people coninue to be uneducated and just fall for the “Puppy Mill” propaganda…:no:

We have our own people in the dog community falling for the PETA crap… sad…