Enlighten me: what does the AKC do for dogs?

[mhhealey]

[QUOTE=sisu27;5865012]
Again, I am in Canada. But…the dog is from the US…could I get him a PAL and compete over there even if he is now a Canadian Citizen?? Or do I have to be a US citizen? [/QUOTE]

I don’t see anything in the PAL application that requires U.S. citizenship for either dog or owner.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/ilpform.pdf

I’ve gotten ILP/PAL numbers on 4 dogs now (3 ACDs, 1 Labrador Retriever), and AKC performance titles on 3 of them. UKC (United Kennel Club) also has an LP listing, similar to ILP/PAL, if you have the opportunity to participate in UKC performance events.

I think it’s important to recognize both the benefits and the limitations of organizations like AKC. Their purpose is not to relieve individuals of the need to think carefully and critically; AKC is a brand, not a stamp of approval.

[Pcostx]

Here is the link to The Kennel Spotlight with the AKC ads http://www.kennelspotlight.com/AUG__11_ISSUE.pdf. The Kennel Spotlight is a magazine written by and for Commercial Dog Breeders (a politically correct term for Puppy Mill!).

You can see where the AKC helps sponsor all of the wonderful (sarcasm alert) Puppy Mill seminars held all over the US, along with the Hunte Corp., Petland and other glorious promoters of mass breeding and sales of dogs.

The AKC provides refreshments, discounted microchips and discounted fees for bulk litter registrations!

[CharingHounds]

Quoting Kryswyn: “The Jack Russell Terrier Club of America was formed because its founder believed that bringing JRTs into the AKC would be the ruination of the breed.”

I worry a little about the Boykin Spaniel which has recently been recognized by AKC. I grew up in SC, where the breed originated. Now I live in NY state and when I contacted a breeder about getting one a few years ago, I learned that the old “traditional” type is smaller than the ones currently being bred for the AKC show ring. Additionally, AKC frowns on a light or amber colored eye which was one of the most striking and identifying traits of the original working Boykin…
Anyway, I didn’t get a Boykin (got Borzoi instead - a whole 'nother story!), but if I ever do get one I hope it’s like the ones I remember as a child.
I’m not too worried - I imagine some of those Southern “good 'ol boys” won’t be quick to update their Boykins. :lol:

[Pcostx]

[QUOTE=Arizona DQ;5864939]

Of course AKC is about money, so are dog rescues…:eek::eek:[/QUOTE]

OMG! Don’t get me started, RESCUE organizations are ALL ABOUT MONEY?
:no:

[Hannahsmom]

@Pcostx;5865340

Here is the link to The Kennel Spotlight with the AKC ads http://www.kennelspotlight.com/AUG__11_ISSUE.pdf. The Kennel Spotlight is a magazine written by and for Commercial Dog Breeders (a politically correct term for Puppy Mill!).

You can see where the AKC helps sponsor all of the wonderful (sarcasm alert) Puppy Mill seminars held all over the US, along with the Hunte Corp., Petland and other glorious promoters of mass breeding and sales of dogs.

The AKC provides refreshments, discounted microchips and discounted fees for bulk litter registrations!

Agreed. This is a disgrace. Letter will be sent tomorrow.

[Pcostx]

So, can anyone look at this and say we don’t need to shut these places down? Notice all 300 dogs are “AKC REGISTERED”

http://www.kcbd.com/story/15571496/300-dogs-rescued-from-floyd-county-kennel

And another source of info. on the connection between the AKC and puppy mills/commercial breeders:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Kennel_Club

Read the Coton Club’s take on having their breed included in the AKC:

http://www.americancotonclub.com/SayNOtoAKC.htm

Thought provoking information here:

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/02/akc-loves-puppy-mills-and-naive.html

The following are written by responsible breeders regarding the AKC and their ties to Commercial Breeders:

I want to update you on the progression of AKC Delegate chat line
discussions which have gone on between me and at least two of the AKC
Board of Directors regarding the fancy’s overwhelming objection to
the AKC instituting its online puppy sales racket.

An interesting thing happens on our Delegate chat line, when you
state an opinion which is contrary to what the Board members want to
hear, you are censored. I had this happen a couple of days ago in a
rather benign exchange with Mrs. Schaefer as she was trying to
convince us that the real reason why the AKC is doing this is to
educate all of the puppy buying public about the virtues of well
bred puppies coming from discriminating breeders.

I merely said that that was complete nonsense, the AKC Board has no
such lofty goals, that this is all about making money and nothing
else, and that the Board of Directors should just go ahead and admit
this. This message was censored by the moderator, who is controlled
by the Board. I then gave the moderator a brief lecture on my First
Amendment rights, told her I was a lawyer, I fought for people’s
rights in the courtroom every day, took my Constitutionally
guaranteed rights extremely seriously, and was not going to tolerate
anyone censoring my words, my opinions. I then asked her to forward
my post to the list. It eventually showed up on the list.

This morning, after receiving yet a couple more rather inane posts
from the powers that be defending this brilliant idea, I went to the Hunte
Corporation’s website, out of curiosity. If you click on the link
which says “pick a puppy” - the site jumps immediately to our AKC
website section describing the different recognized breeds. Andrew
Hunte is a clever business man, and he has duped the AKC’S Board of
Directors into providing him with a wonderful outlet to sell his mass
produced puppies.

So, there you have it, the AKC, in its never ending lust for money,
will now be helping the largest mass producer of puppies in the world
to sell his produce.

Lisa Summers
Delegate Grand River Kennel Club
Painesville, Ohio
NCM Gordon Setters
Concord, Ohio

The message from Lisa Summers is right on target. Dennis Sprung tried
to slip past the delegates in Nashville that AKC is going to “help”
puppy buyers contact breeders. We all thought he meant AKC was going
to link with parent clubs, giving enhanced visibility to their
respective “litter listings” and breeder referral people. Luckily,
the delegate from the Basset Hound Club of America was apparently
more suspicious, and asked for clarification. It was then that we
learned that AKC was planning to list any AKC-paper- eligible puppy,
even those from puppy mills!

The delegates erupted with a negative outburst, and the Delegate
List has been buzzing with outrage from delegates. Couple of
logistical updates: The word" is that an AKC staff member, an executive within the Registration Dept., is the moving force behind this miserable and
misguided initiative–and the Board is going to be discussing it
this month.

I have urged my parent club to write immediately, lodging the
strongest protest possible. The plan is abhorrent, and undermines
everything conscientious hobby breeders have worked for over these
many years!

All breeder referral folks, myself included, spend hundreds of hours
on the phone with prospective puppy buyers, trying to educate them
about the right way to research and purchase a puppy. As some breeder
referral people have said: “Why should we bother any more???!!!”

So now AKC is going to help Andrew Hunte sell the 85,000 puppies he
'“processes” each year? We all know the deplorable conditions these
puppies come out of, and even worse is the suffering of the brood
bitches and stud dogs. And we also know that it is terribly easy to
falsify litter information. I see what comes in from the pet shops at
Smithaven every day, and it is heartbreaking.
Pups that barely resemble the breed they are supposed to be, pups
that definitely are not what they are supposed to be, and almost all
filled with parasites, heart murmurs, respiratory problems, and
worse.

AKC is turning itself into a huge joke—all for the almighty $$$.
And it gets better; they are now “licensing” the use of the AKC logo
(also for $$$). On canine products, that might make sense. But they are
putting it on men’s and women’ apparel, vacuum cleaners, lamps,
bric-a-brac, etc. etc. Some of us are convinced that the staff and
the Board have been drinking from the bowl of insanity!

Without exception, delegates have been screaming on line!

In my opinion, the arrogance and stupidity of this particular Board
and new staff are overwhelming. And part of the problem, a big part, is
that many staffers have absolutely no real background in the dog
fancy— just corporate thinking. And even some with a background seem
to be totally derailed.

All-breed clubs and parent clubs must weigh in with the Board asap–
and strongly. I have so urged the Beardie club, and am copying this
to Pat for SCKC. Letters and e-mails should go to Jim Crowley for
forwarding to the proper folks. Things are out of control. Do plan
to act! ________________________________

Donna Malone
Vice President, Responsible Animal Owners of Tennessee - a nonprofit
organization promoting the humane treatment of animals and
responsible animal ownership - Because Love is Not Enough!

---

Betsy, Mom to
CH Bugle Bay’s Sin City Caper UD RE TD BHCA-VC
CH Bugle Bay’s Sin City Cuppa Joe TD
CH Bugle Bay’s AllUCanEat Buffet CDX RN TDX NA CGC BHCA-VCX, 1996-2008
“Bugsie” UDX NA NAJ CGC, 1991-2006

[Kryswyn]

I don’t know about everyone else but I read that magazine cover to cover. I only wish I could believe that the puppy millers would actually attend those seminars and use the information provided.

Some of the stories are frightening: the family that decided to breed five different breeds, one of which was Siberian Huskies, and later decide to try Samoyeds. They research them at the library because they’ve never seen one. ??? How do you have one arctic breed and not even have seen a Samoyed? And when they got them, they were always clean and white.

The classifieds are really scary. Some guy’s getting out of the business and is looking to sell 15 of one breed and 45 yorkies. $70,000 for all. ?!?!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Pcostx;5865592]
So, can anyone look at this and say we don’t need to shut these places down? Notice all 300 dogs are “AKC REGISTERED”

http://www.kcbd.com/story/15571496/300-dogs-rescued-from-floyd-county-kennel

And another source of info. on the connection between the AKC and puppy mills/commercial breeders:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Kennel_Club

Read the Coton Club’s take on having their breed included in the AKC:

http://www.americancotonclub.com/SayNOtoAKC.htm

Thought provoking information here:

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/02/akc-loves-puppy-mills-and-naive.html

What is your intent on keep bashing the AKC with stuff like this?
No one here is saying they are beyond reproach or have not made mistakes or won’t ever again.

The AKC is a registry and does very much, some we agree with, some maybe not, if you don’t, don’t do business with them, simple.
No need to go badmouthing them like that.
We get it, you don’t like them.

That you presented those two first links to make the AKC look bad, links that don’t show anything sinister, well, that sound like some kind of vendetta, not an opinion.

I checked your first link and it seems to be some sheriff’s rescue of dogs, that happens to be AKC registered maybe and a horse.
If it was horses registered with the AQHA, would you blame that association also?:no:

The second link and I quit after that, has this disclaimer that what they are stating is not corroborated, so why post that?

—"Ever wonder about Sourcewatch.org?
Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:57 PM EDT
us-news, liberal, fake, wiki, opensource, disclaimer, nothing-reviewed, sourcewatch-org
By april-1023405
advertisement

For the past three months I have been seeing more and more people post links for information from Sourcewatch.org - claiming fact. Well if anyone ever would take the time to read the disclaimer they might learn that the site is anything but that, and that it of course - is very biased.

http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch:General_disclaimer

Read the disclaimer:

No formal peer review

Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by professionals with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information. That is not to say that you will not find valuable and accurate information in SourceWatch; much of the time you will. However, SourceWatch cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here. The content of any given article may recently have been changed, vandalized or altered by someone whose opinion does not correspond with the state of knowledge in the relevant fields. Our active community of editors uses tools such as the Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages feeds to monitor new and changing content. However, SourceWatch is not uniformly peer reviewed; while readers may correct errors or engage in casual review, they have no legal duty to do so and thus all information read here is without any implied warranty of fitness for any purpose or use whatsoever. Even articles that have been included in links from the Center for Media and Democracy’s website may later have been edited inappropriately, just before you view them.

None of the authors, contributors, sponsors, administrators, sysops, or anyone else connected with SourceWatch in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages.

And if you want to see who publishes sourcewatch.org:

The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) publishes SourceWatch, this collaborative, specialized encyclopedia of the people, organizations, and issues shaping the public agenda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Media_and_Democracy

The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) is a liberal[1] nonprofit American-based media research group founded in 1993 by environmentalist writer and political activist John Stauber.

CMD has stated that it is not affiliated with a political party, but that it does not pretend to lack opinions or a point of view."—

After that, I didn’t check any more links, that was enough.
The way you are going after the AKC just doesn’t make much sense, really.

[Barnfairy]

@Pcostx;5865340

Here is the link to The Kennel Spotlight with the AKC ads http://www.kennelspotlight.com/AUG__11_ISSUE.pdf. The Kennel Spotlight is a magazine written by and for Commercial Dog Breeders (a politically correct term for Puppy Mill!).

Thank you for the link.

From one of the AKC ads within the mag:

The American Kennel Club, working with its affiliates, is the only not-for-profit registry devoted to the health and well-being of all dogs. To date, breeder and owner registrations have helped us allocate over $30 million to fund programs for the betterment of dogs everywhere.

I looked into who puts out this mag and found this: Southwest Auction Service

(emphasis mine)

WHO I AM!

My name is Bob Hughes and I have owned Southwest Auction Service since 1988. Our Specialty is liquidating Dogs, Portable Kennels, Kennel Real Estate & Kennel related items through the marketing method of auction. Southwest Auction is the worlds largest and oldest auction that primarily specializes in professional kennel sales. We also publish The Kennel Spotlight magazine.

Lots of gray area here.

Mass-produced puppies sold through auctions are the antithesis of responsible breeding. One could put something of a Robin Hood spin on this, in saying the AKC gets money from the commercial breeders to fund disease-fighting research, lost dog recovery, search & rescue efforts, and kennel inspections. Despite any good which may or may not come of it, to appeal to commercial breeders while claiming to be “devoted to the health and well-being of all dogs” is nothing short of hypocritical.

It is a slippery slope to condemn all commercial breeders. While I don’t condone it, I also recognize what is the Jockey Club but a registry for a breed produced largely commercially and sold at auction? I may not want to breed my horses that way, but by the same token I don’t want to put the Three Chimneys and Win Stars out of business. Things could be a lot worse for a horse than to be living there. I do not equate all commercial dog breeding with filth and squalor, abuse and neglect.

No easy answers here, but I still contend the best way to end puppy mills is to stop buying from them.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Barnfairy;5865830]
Thank you for the link.

From one of the AKC ads within the mag:

I looked into who puts out this mag and found this: Southwest Auction Service

Lots of gray area here.

Mass-produced puppies sold through auctions are the antithesis of responsible breeding. One could put something of a Robin Hood spin on this, in saying the AKC gets money from the commercial breeders to fund disease-fighting research, lost dog recovery, search & rescue efforts, and kennel inspections. Despite any good which may or may not come of it, to appeal to commercial breeders while claiming to be “devoted to the health and well-being of all dogs” is nothing short of hypocritical.

It is a slippery slope to condemn all commercial breeders. While I don’t condone it, I also recognize what is the Jockey Club but a registry for a breed produced largely commercially and sold at auction? I may not want to breed my horses that way, but by the same token I don’t want to put the Three Chimneys and Win Stars out of business. Things could be a lot worse for a horse than to be living there. I do not equate all commercial dog breeding with filth and squalor, abuse and neglect.

No easy answers here, but I still contend the best way to end puppy mills is to stop buying from them.[/QUOTE]

Good post.

I think that the AKC finds itself similar to the AQHA, blamed for who and how the ones that register dogs or horses with them breed.
As the AQHA found, you can’t restrict who you are going to register from without legal consequences.
The AQHA tried to rule that horses could not have but so much white to be registered.
Since the breed is rather new, there were still many genes for more than the desired color that kept cropping out.
One breeder of such horses went to court over that rule and, to the surprise of all, won. That set a precedent for all registries, of horses and dogs and gerbils.

The AKC can’t very well refuse to register offspring of properly AKC registered parents, no matter if the breeder is the Westminster winner or a sleazy puppy mill.

What they can do is have rules for inspecting kennels and they do that, especially when someone alerts them to them and then they can help animal control close those kennels.

When the AKC started asking for DNA registration, that alone closed many puppy mills and in the end is what made them start their own registry, the CKC, not worth the trouble.
Are those dogs now better off? I doubt it.

I agree, don’t buy puppies but from breeders you know and know the parents, don’t buy especially from pet shops or parking lots.
That only promotes more of that kind of careless breeding.

There is more to the AKC than what we know, some of what we know is questionable.
Lets question them on that, make them accountable best we can.
The AKC, just as the dog world, just as everything in this world, all is a work in progress.
An evil dog empire wanting to harm or kill dogs for the money a few more registration fees bring, as some seem to insist they are, well, I don’t think so.:no:

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Barnfairy;5865830]
No easy answers here, but I still contend the best way to end puppy mills is to stop buying from them.[/QUOTE]

That would be the easiest thing…

Really, unless I wanted a specific sort of working or confo show do, I do not see the need to go to a breeder. If I wanted a coon hound, I’d buy one from the guy next door who breeds mostly to hunt himself but sells young dogs. If I wanted a guard dog, I’d find someone with a guard-dog breeding/training operation. Herding dogs, find someone who works the dogs in addition to breeding. Confo show dog? Someone with dogs who win big.

House pet? The pound works fine.

[threedogpack]

Here’s the thing. Those who want to believe that the AKC is a horrible organization will not hear what those who believe in the AKC have to say. I try hard not to argue with people who don’t want to hear it. It’s a waste of my time and energy.

So if you think the AKC is in bed with the puppy millers, have at it.

My dogs are still going to be AKC registered so if I choose to show in an AKC sanctioned show, I can.

If you choose differently…ok.

THAT said, to the OP…the AKC does do good, tho like any large organization, they are not perfect. Check out the links I provided.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=danceronice;5866230]
That would be the easiest thing…

Really, unless I wanted a specific sort of working or confo show do, I do not see the need to go to a breeder. If I wanted a coon hound, I’d buy one from the guy next door who breeds mostly to hunt himself but sells young dogs. If I wanted a guard dog, I’d find someone with a guard-dog breeding/training operation. Herding dogs, find someone who works the dogs in addition to breeding. Confo show dog? Someone with dogs who win big.

House pet? The pound works fine.[/QUOTE]

Well…but seriously, what makes the guy next door (who doesn’t do any health testing or obtain any working or conformation titles) any different than a puppy mill breeder? A lot of backyard breeders breed for nothing but money, just like puppy mill breeders.

The best advice – find a breeder who conducts pre-breeding health testing on their dogs and who either works them or shows them in some way. But be prepared to pay for it. (Although frankly I don’t think pet store puppies are any less expensive…)

The pound certainly can produce an excellent house pet, but doesn’t necessarily give you any guarantees regarding health or temperment…which is why MANY dog owners choose to go to a breeder instead of a pet store or the pound.

[Mara]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;5866250]
Here’s the thing. Those who want to believe that the AKC is a horrible organization will not hear what those who believe in the AKC have to say. I try hard not to argue with people who don’t want to hear it. It’s a waste of my time and energy.

So if you think the AKC is in bed with the puppy millers, have at it.

My dogs are still going to be AKC registered so if I choose to show in an AKC sanctioned show, I can.

If you choose differently…ok.

THAT said, to the OP…the AKC does do good, tho like any large organization, they are not perfect. Check out the links I provided.[/QUOTE]

I’ve read quite a few of the links here and browsed the commercial kennel mag.

It does speak volumes that the heads of several breed clubs are seething over the AKC’s attempts to develop working relationships with the large scale commercial breeders. (I’m sorry, but someone who has 45 breeding Yorkies? The dogs may be well-fed, vetted, and kept in clean living conditions, but that is NOT a responsible breeder looking out for the welfare and improvement of the Yorkshire Terrier).

Didn’t know about the research $$$ AKC disburses either.

So far, yep, they are a big organization run by people who do a lot of things right and also make errors in judgment. No shortage of those.

I can’t defend Andrew Hunte, though. I just can’t.

[libgrrl]

As a general rule, if I have difficulty understanding why people I disagree with believe the way they do, I try to find out where they are coming from.

That said, http://www.kennelspotlight.com/ is scary. I understand that the point is to “rally the troops” (i.e., other Commercial Breeders) – but just about everyone that is not another Commercial Breeder comes under fire somewhere in their collection of screeds.

Yikes! That was enlightening reading…

[sisu27]

[QUOTE=S1969;5866292]
Well…but seriously, what makes the guy next door (who doesn’t do any health testing or obtain any working or conformation titles) any different than a puppy mill breeder? A lot of backyard breeders breed for nothing but money, just like puppy mill breeders.

The best advice – find a breeder who conducts pre-breeding health testing on their dogs and who either works them or shows them in some way. But be prepared to pay for it. (Although frankly I don’t think pet store puppies are any less expensive…)

The pound certainly can produce an excellent house pet, but doesn’t necessarily give you any guarantees regarding health or temperment…which is why MANY dog owners choose to go to a breeder instead of a pet store or the pound.[/QUOTE]

I agree with much of what you write except the bolded part. My experience is with Dobes so I can not speak to other breeds but the most expensive, well bred Dobe I have owned also died the youngest (6yo). I would not even consider a breeder selling Dobes that tried to tell me they guarantee health. You can’t…not yet (DCM). That is largely marketing to people that don’t know any better. I am not saying there aren’t good people breeding Dobes out there but I would rather go to a Dobe rescue where I can assess the temperament myself (of an adult dog) and take my chances with the health because very, very few of them are healthy for very long. It is always a crap-shoot.

That is how I choose to support the breed that I love. I struggle mightily to understand how so many self professed dog lovers would rather spend thousands of dollars to get a dog with papers then save the life of another of the same breed. I just can’t understand that.

I do understand that by not supporting the good breeders I am not helping with the long term solution but the immediacy of saving a perfectly amazing Dobe wins every time.

[threedogpack]

@Mara;5866323

I’ve read quite a few of the links here and browsed the commercial kennel mag.

It does speak volumes that the heads of several breed clubs are seething over the AKC’s attempts to develop working relationships with the large scale commercial breeders. (I’m sorry, but someone who has 45 breeding Yorkies? The dogs may be well-fed, vetted, and kept in clean living conditions, but that is NOT a responsible breeder looking out for the welfare and improvement of the Yorkshire Terrier).

so what, exactly is the limit of breeding dogs that a kennel may have and still be responsible?

Didn’t know about the research $$$ AKC disburses either.

So far, yep, they are a big organization run by people who do a lot of things right and also make errors in judgment. No shortage of those.

I can’t defend Andrew Hunte, though. I just can’t.

and nobody is asking you to.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=sisu27;5866536]

That is how I choose to support the breed that I love. I struggle mightily to understand how so many self professed dog lovers would rather spend thousands of dollars to get a dog with papers then save the life of another of the same breed. I just can’t understand that.[/QUOTE]

I not only want a purebred puppy with AKC papers, I want to breed my own. I’ve done the rescue, I’ve done the fostering and I want a puppy that I’ve raised, have installed the buttons I want and can avoid the hot buttons I’ve gotten with the fosters and rescues.

This is why I will spend the money for a puppy with papers.

[mhhealey]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;5866564]
This is why I will spend the money for a puppy with papers.[/QUOTE]

Merely getting a puppy with papers won’t be nearly enough to maximize the odds of getting a breedworthy dog. You’re looking for a puppy of a certain breed whose breeder registers, who health tests, who performance tests, who temperament tests. Registration is no guarantee of the other criteria; it’s only one possible component in finding a breeder whose goals align with your own.

[Arizona_DQ]

I do not understand this war against AKC. As others have said, if you do not like them, do not play in their yard.

I am a breeder, exhibitor and judge. I do not agree with everything AKC does, but they are the only game in town as no other registry has what AKC offers in the way of events, welfare of dogs, etc.

I am surprised that many people on this list poo-poo the conformation shows. Maybe they do not understand the reason behind conformation showing? “Form follows function”, if the dog is nor built correctly, he will not be able to perform his function. For instance, a herding dog with steep shoulders may not be able to work all day, a terrier that is oversized cannot go to ground, an over bulky and poorly built ridgebakc will probably get killed by the lion, etc. Do we see exaggerated coats, necks, etc, in the show ring, of course !!! But it is not just AKC dogs or AKC at fault, look at the halter horses in some breeds…

As a breeder, I breed to preserve the breed as the originators intended. I have better tools as far as health testing, but I am not improving, I am preserving what I was fortunate enough to inherit…

Unfortunately, some people thing that more is better, more, length of neck, more sloping croup, more rear angulation, etc. Heck more food, bigger hamburgers, larger portions… It is our culture. Some people breed to win, some breed for the love of the breed and are willing to accept their loses as long as they feel they are breeding correctly.

I am no way in favor of puppy mills, I am not crazy about large scale breeding either, but to the AR folks, ALL breeders are the same. While some of the legislation is aimed at those who have 10 or more breeding bitches, once that type of legislation is passed, it is very easy to change the minimum number to 5 or even less. I have 3 intact bitches and 2 intact males and No intention of breeding at this point. But whether or not I intend to breed is irrelevant, as I could be cited IF my area had this type of legislation.

WE ALL have to fight against this type of legislation or we will lose all ablility to breed dogs. That is the ultimate goal…At least AKC (along with a few other organizations) is helping in this fight… We ALL have to stand together and stop in fighting…