Looking for some information regarding the drug, Epogen/Procrit. I’ve read many articles that describe the usage as producing almost a ‘sludge’ in respect to the horses blood (and slowed circulation/clotting).
More specifically the effects of long term use on the horses body. Clinical signs of usage in regards to adverse effects. Upon withdrawal after long term use, can it effect the limbs/feet- lead to foundering? Any info greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Is there a particular reason you want to play with fire? EPO is illegal and dangerous - just as the cyclists that used it and ask about their dead competitors. Ask trainers who claimed blood doped horses how the horses never recovered or just up and died. Long term use produces death - first unthrifiness, then death, no mention of founder in anything I read, but the articles were pretty non-specific. The blood does become thick, very thick and cannot carry nutrients after a time and in many casees, never returns to normal. The fines for blood doiping can be tens of thousands of dollars and come with an instant life time suspension.
Procrit and Epogen were developed originally for people with pernicious anaemia and is still prescribed for that and similar diseases but not for long term use - the inserts are filled with warnings of caution against overdosing, side effects and contraindications. It may cause heart attack, stroke, clotting problems, thick blood, and a whole string of other complaints. There is a wealth of information on human use of the drugs, just takes a bit of digging. Like any other drug, it has its uses, but it is hard to take a human drug and translate the dosage and effects to a large animal. There IS a canine/feline version of EPO, but you still have to be careful administering the drug to the patient.
An older article from Monticello track http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070218/SPORTS/702180350
Another frmo Thorougbred Times http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2000/July/08/Deadly-performance-enhancer.aspx
The drug has not place in racing. Because like most drugs it’s abused. According to people I’ve talked to, the 2,000 units per ml can be used thereapeutically (although I certainly don’t agree), the problem is that most people who use it are using 20,000 units and giving it a lot. That will turn a horse’s blood into sludge. In my opinion, barns that win at 35% or higher are using EPO. It’s just too difficult to win races even if you are dropping everything to win at that clip.
The drug has not place in racing. Because like most drugs it’s abused. According to people I’ve talked to, the 2,000 units per ml can be used thereapeutically (although I certainly don’t agree), the problem is that most people who use it are using 20,000 units and giving it a lot. That will turn a horse’s blood into sludge. In my opinion, barns that win at 35% or higher are using EPO. It’s just too difficult to win races even if you are dropping everything to win at that clip. It’s easy to win races when your horses have twice as many RBC in their system than the others in the race.
Not to put words in her mouth, but Marli is a rescuer so she is asking for information on what to look out for in horses that she has rescued. She isn’t asking so she can give it to a horse herself.
[QUOTE=sk_pacer;3904745]
Is there a particular reason you want to play with fire? EPO is illegal and dangerous [/QUOTE]
If you’ve read any of Marli’s prior posts, you’ll figure out she works with TB rescue & if she’s asking about long-term effects, it probably has more to do with helping a rescue with issues suspected to have been caused by EPO than with actively wanting to USE the substance.
Marli, I replied on ABR, too, but from what I know about it, the side effects can vary widely, but you’re likely to see anemia (this is from the horse developing antibodies to EPO- which then also attack the NATURAL epo substance as well), serious weight loss, muscle wasting, etc. Basically, a serious “crash.”
It can effect blood pressure and circulation (and kidney function I believe), so those two things would make me think that laminitic symptoms wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility (though I would think that it would be along with weight loss or other signs- if the foot issues are presenting alone with no other signs, it would be hard to pin that on EPO I would think).
Forgive me for not reading every single post by every single poster, so I can keep who does what straight to make you happy. She asked a question, and I asked WHY she wanted to know then passed on the information that she asked for, at least what I could recall and then what I could find quickly.
Calm down guys…
SK Pacer- no harm no foul. For the record, I have no intention of using this kind of drug, wouldn’t even know how. :winkgrin:
As some others have mentioned, my curiousity and interest in obtaining information was more to determine what side effects it causes, what to look for. I provide assistance to rescue organizations and focus on ottbs.
From the response so far it sounds like this is a nasty, nasty drug.
Thank you!
What you need to do is get the horse on meds to help the liver and kidney. Talk to your vet. The horse also needs to be on iron and many other things. If you do nothing, your horse could die from kidney or liver failure or both.
As many have already posted, this drug has terrible long term effects on horses. If you’re concerned that you might be dealing with one of these unfortunate souls, a blood test will tell you if the horse has been “exposed” to it. It was developed for humans, and the horse will develop antiboties to it.
Marli, I can’t add more to what others have said, but I notice serious EPO crashes about three months after a horse leaves the track. They drop weight TERRIBLY and no amount of food helps. I’ve had some go almost skeletal.
Lethargy, depression, muscle wastage, frequent colicing are all signs.
What you can do to help them, other than time (and sometimes they just don’t survive, I’ve had three die from complications) is a few things–
I don’t have my notes in front of me as I’m laid up at the moment, but I want to say there is a big crash in ACH levels (I could be wrong on the acronym, but will verify next week when i’m back at work).
We try to use high-quality alfalfa in the diet, a good mineral supplement and Gastroguard pretty regularly.
Vets can give you kidney and liver supplements that will help the come down with EPO. Just ask a track vet and the horse will not die.
Easier said than done Dick,
A horse in terrible shape isn’t going to be saved by supplements.
Not when they organs are already failing, but it will prevent failiure if a pro-active measure is taken. There are injections, not just “supplements”
Devil in the details–What injections?
And what about when you don’t know until after they crash hard that they are even on EPO?
And do said injections hurt if they get the injections and are not on EPO?
Problem- how do we know to give those if we don’t know the horse has been given EPO? It’s not like people tell you that when they’re handing a horse to you.
[QUOTE=DickHertz;3923923]
Not when they organs are already failing, but it will prevent failiure if a pro-active measure is taken. There are injections, not just “supplements”[/QUOTE]
My SO is a track vet and we have a retiree on the farm that we suspect was a Procrit horse. We can’t find any other track vets that have any ideas other than what we’ve already tried. They basically say either they make it or not. So, since you are so well informed, do you care to share the name of this drug?
[QUOTE=caffeinated;3924041]
Problem- how do we know to give those if we don’t know the horse has been given EPO? It’s not like people tell you that when they’re handing a horse to you.[/QUOTE]
You see who the last trainer of record was. I think those in the know know who the EPO users are in this great game.
[QUOTE=Las Olas;3924318]
My SO is a track vet and we have a retiree on the farm that we suspect was a Procrit horse. We can’t find any other track vets that have any ideas other than what we’ve already tried. They basically say either they make it or not. So, since you are so well informed, do you care to share the name of this drug?[/QUOTE]
I’ve claimed horses who were given EPO, including one just last month. What I’ve found that works is:
1x per week for six weeks
Caco Copper with Iron
Delvorex
Hemo 15
Liver 7
Levothyroxine
1 Ringers Jug 2x per week
It’s not really that expensive either. What I know is this has helped me with horses I know very likely had EPO. This was based on a recommendation from a good vet. You gotta flush out the kidneys and keep supplementing with iron or you will lose the battle with EPO. Eventually you start decreasing the iron. Overdosing iron on a normal horse has adverse effects, but you need to supplement with iron to help the body keep up with the influx of RBC’s.
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