Equine ATTORNEYS! Seller refusing to release horse to shipper! UPDATE: Ransom refused

[Kwill]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8542056]
My opinion doesn’t change. There isn’t a rule that says you can’t afford a pony unless you pay this more for it, or you can’t afford a good show pony if you can’t pay this much for it. They thought they found a pony that would meet their needs in the price range they wanted to pay. Someone was willing to see the pony to them in that price range. That’s it.[/QUOTE]

Well no, apparently she wasn’t, since she doesn’t want to sell them the pony any more. And in fact, the OP said she was sure the seller cancelled the sale because she had sold the pony for a higher price, and it was possibly already gone to a new home (which was not the case).

I don’t think the point was they shouldn’t have the pony for this money, but they were certainly aware they got the pony for far less than its value due to the circumstances of the sale. However, since they never saw it (well in person, anyway) or rode it, no one actually knows anything about the pony except the seller.

Edit: I am actually agreeing with you, there is no hard and fast rule about how much any horse should cost. It’s all about what someone will pay and perceived value.

[Kwill]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8542056]
My opinion doesn’t change. There isn’t a rule that says you can’t afford a pony unless you pay this more for it, or you can’t afford a good show pony if you can’t pay this much for it. They thought they found a pony that would meet their needs in the price range they wanted to pay. Someone was willing to see the pony to them in that price range. That’s it.[/QUOTE]

Well no, apparently she wasn’t, since she doesn’t want to sell them the pony any more. And in fact, the OP said she was sure the seller cancelled the sale because she had sold the pony for a higher price, and it was possible already gone to a new home.

I don’t think the point was they shouldn’t have the pony for this money, but they were certainly aware they got the pony for far less than its value due to the circumstances of the sale. However, since they never saw it or rode it, no one actually knows anything about the pony except the seller.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;8541649]
The reports I’m seeing are from 2013 and involve a pony bought long distance without a vetting that had a head tilt and was blind in one eye. Not written recently by the seller, in any case…[/QUOTE]

The one posted with the actual name Seller mentioned (Kris, not Lisa) are from a week ago and involve the head tilt. It’s an anonymous report to a scam website written in the same semi-literate style as the seller’s posts, so I’m taking that fwiw. (Not much. Timing and anonymity are suspect.)

[dacasodivine]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8542081]
Well no, apparently she wasn’t, since she doesn’t want to sell them the pony any more. And in fact, the OP said she was sure the seller cancelled the sale because she had sold the pony for a higher price, and it was possibly already gone to a new home (which was not the case).

I don’t think the point was they shouldn’t have the pony for this money, but they were certainly aware they got the pony for far less than its value due to the circumstances of the sale. However, since they never saw it (well in person, anyway) or rode it, no one actually knows anything about the pony except the seller.

Edit: I am actually agreeing with you, there is no hard and fast rule about how much any horse should cost. It’s all about what someone will pay and perceived value.[/QUOTE]

She had already sold them the pony and per the sales contract, had turned over ownership to the buyer. A bit late to change her mind.

[Kwill]

[QUOTE=dacasodivine;8542208]
She had already sold them the pony and per the sales contract, had turned over ownership to the buyer. A bit late to change her mind.[/QUOTE]

I agree, she has no leg to stand on. Pony sold, waiting for the ride, you can’t change your mind without buying the pony back from the buyer, at their discretion. In this case, OP didn’t want to return the pony. Due diligence has to be done before signing the contract, not after. Even if money hadn’t changed hands, the contract would still be valid and the pony sold — that’s what the contract was for, correct?

I am remembering something like this quite a while ago, someone had bought a horse five states away and the person wouldn’t send the horse or refund the deposit because they didn’t like the buyer – details are fuzzy now. Someone else needs to help me remember if it is the same kind of situation…I just can’t bring it all to mind at the moment.

[findeight]

And here I was lamenting the lack of a really good trainwreck with all appropriate accouterments.

And, for OP? Whoever the heck you actually are? WHY, as a professional in the horse business, would you hang your laundry on the “CLOTHLINE” to air out? Clean or dirty? I know a large number of Pros and not a single ONE has EVER come on COTH looking for advice on a sight unseen internet sales deal gone south dragging themselves and their client plus seller and their agent through through the mud of conjecture, innuendo and speculation.

Shame on you. Take care of your own business, as you are paiid to do, and keep it in your own house.

Currently had some of the wine, waiting on the butter to melt for my popcorn. Cheers, this could be fun.

[Kwill]

Oh, you all can be sure I will blast this everywhere once filed. I will also then update from my regular username, and post to my FB page.

Probably seems unnecessary now – I think all the parties have been identified!

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8542253]
Probably seems unnecessary now – I think all the parties have been identified![/QUOTE]

Oh, I think it would be interesting to see what their regular username is!

[Haybert]

I have to admit this is quite the hootenanny of a train wreck.

I never felt much sympathy for they OP mainly because of this “righteous virtue” about teaching a seller a lesson. Hello. It’s not your money (or I guess it is, if you are a flipper, and that probably is WHY you won’t let this drop you smell blood, like any good sales animal going for the kill), so take your loss.

I swear that I’ve seen people back out of deals for the weirdest reason. No biggy. Why sh*t where you eat if you want to do GOOD deals in the future?

The internet has a memory. It has the smart people of COTH, who’ve tracked down big mysteries with such ease it is startling.

OP take the money back. Even if this pony can be flipped from suuuuuper low 4 digits to 6 digits, you need to stop pretending like you are helping needy kids get on the show circuit. I am so serious. That stuff this smells like the muck heap. It’s one thing to get rides for kids, etc, but QUITE another to get them and their (APPARENTLY) financially strapped parents onto the horse ownership conveyor belt.

Do you teach classes to the parents on things like writing a $500 check to the vet without looking down? Staying up all night figuring out how to clip a horse? Cancelling shows because of a thrown shoe and a sick farrier and not getting entry fees back? How to understand that horses cost money and don’t earn a dime?
These are lessons we could all teach.

In fact I kind of wonder what kind of HELP you are actually giving low income kids by suggesting parents opt OUT of college funds and into HORSE funds.

Ah well. The UTTER NERVE of a GoFundMe page beats most walking, talking gall.

Give the money back, salvage your reputation by behaving like you are a professional and not a spoiled child trying to access big money. Perish the thought of what you are ACTUALLY teaching kids. I don’ think it’s as STRENUOUSLY about honesty and virtue as you like to imagine. I think there is a deal to be had then subsequently made. You’ve got a kid with a tight seat who can help expose this little unknown pony to the right people. Happy big dollar ending.

Honestly I have had more fund with kids at smaller shows because it was about their accomplishments than some sort of “access” to the cachet of the big leagues.

Dear Pony Owner (deja vu…) please just find the legal help you need to get yourself out of this mess: money back in a safe legal way so that OP can’t hollah fowl on not getting her bux back. Ugh.

I don’t miss the buy sell. AT. ALL.

[TrailRides4Fun]

[QUOTE=Haybert;8542288]

I have to admit this is quite the hootenanny of a train wreck.

I never felt much sympathy for they OP mainly because of this “righteous virtue” about teaching a seller a lesson. Hello. It’s not your money (or I guess it is, if you are a flipper, and that probably is WHY you won’t let this drop you smell blood, like any good sales animal going for the kill), so take your loss.

I swear that I’ve seen people back out of deals for the weirdest reason. No biggy. Why sh*t where you eat if you want to do GOOD deals in the future?

The internet has a memory. It has the smart people of COTH, who’ve tracked down big mysteries with such ease it is startling.

OP take the money back. Even if this pony can be flipped from suuuuuper low 4 digits to 6 digits, you need to stop pretending like you are helping needy kids get on the show circuit. I am so serious. That stuff this smells like the muck heap. It’s one thing to get rides for kids, etc, but QUITE another to get them and their (APPARENTLY) financially strapped parents onto the horse ownership conveyor belt.

Do you teach classes to the parents on things like writing a $500 check to the vet without looking down? Staying up all night figuring out how to clip a horse? Cancelling shows because of a thrown shoe and a sick farrier and not getting entry fees back? How to understand that horses cost money and don’t earn a dime?
These are lessons we could all teach.

In fact I kind of wonder what kind of HELP you are actually giving low income kids by suggesting parents opt OUT of college funds and into HORSE funds.

Ah well. The UTTER NERVE of a GoFundMe page beats most walking, talking gall.

Give the money back, salvage your reputation by behaving like you are a professional and not a spoiled child trying to access big money. Perish the thought of what you are ACTUALLY teaching kids. I don’ think it’s as STRENUOUSLY about honesty and virtue as you like to imagine. I think there is a deal to be had then subsequently made. You’ve got a kid with a tight seat who can help expose this little unknown pony to the right people. Happy big dollar ending.

Honestly I have had more fund with kids at smaller shows because it was about their accomplishments than some sort of “access” to the cachet of the big leagues.

Dear Pony Owner (deja vu…) please just find the legal help you need to get yourself out of this mess: money back in a safe legal way so that OP can’t hollah fowl on not getting her bux back. Ugh.

I don’t miss the buy sell. AT. ALL.[/QUOTE]

Gotta say,., Agree ^ with this totally!!
Especially the part about the GoFundMe page < that made NO SENSE at all,…, :no:
EXCEPT - to line YOUR pocket in yet another way OP.

[BUSY]

304 posts ! Sixteen pages ```please someone summarize what has happened here … is this just a train wreck or something more ? TIA

[HungarianHippo]

BUSY: You’re welcome.

[QUOTE=dacasodivine;8541632]
Short version: OP’s client (possible relative) bought a pony. Pony was bought and paid for and contract signed.

Just before the shippers were to arrive, seller says she is voiding the sale because shippers were late. OP has a cop arrive with shippers to pick up pony. Seller refuses to release pony saying she had to pay board and get the pony’s hooves trimmed. Cop says it’s a civil matter and they leave without pony.

OP offers to pay board and farrier fees. Seller refuses says sale is voided.

Seller or friend then posts scam reports about OP and client.

Seller then comes to COTH claiming she Googled OP, didn’t like what she found, and decided she didn’t want pony going there.

Seller also said all contact from start to finish was with the client so how did she know to Google OP?

Either way, there is a contract and payment. The pony no longer belongs to seller. If client accepts a refund, the cost of the shipper is also due.[/QUOTE]

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

If the OP or her mother-in-law or whomever was the buyer induced the seller to lower the price of the pony by fraudulent means, such as saying that the pony was going to a disadvantaged child, then the contract is void. That is, if the pony was not going to a disadvantaged child and was being bought by OP and her mother in law or whomever Bolk is to resell to someone for a high price. The seller will have to prove this by emails or texts or something. And of course any prior scams by the OP are admissible to show that she is an unethical person, if there are such scams. That whole scammer thing about charging so much for hay and feed and board, the one from the person who was moving her horses to Arizona would show a judge that a person was not to be believed.

All this is she said/she said unless there are documents, such as emails and texts, to show who did what and who said what. But like the other pony thread, we’re finding out that what someone tells us in her first post is not necessarily the truth. This is why it is important to document in emails or texts or writing everything so that if you sue or are sued, you have evidence. Doesn’t take Judge Judy to tell you that.

So well since the other Cother from the first pony/blue saddle/open trailer thread still has her pony in Florida, and since the seller here still has her pony in SC, hopefully the ponies will all survive the bickering between the parties.

But if the buyer lied to the seller to get a lower price, she will lose if there is documentation. So we’ll see what happens in court. If someone will keep us abreast of the situation. We don’t have much closure of things that happen.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

[QUOTE=findeight;8542236]
And here I was lamenting the lack of a really good trainwreck with all appropriate accouterments.

And, for OP? Whoever the heck you actually are? WHY, as a professional in the horse business, would you hang your laundry on the “CLOTHLINE” to air out? Clean or dirty? I know a large number of Pros and not a single ONE has EVER come on COTH looking for advice on a sight unseen internet sales deal gone south dragging themselves and their client plus seller and their agent through through the mud of conjecture, innuendo and speculation.

Shame on you. Take care of your own business, as you are paiid to do, and keep it in your own house.

Currently had some of the wine, waiting on the butter to melt for my popcorn. Cheers, this could be fun.[/QUOTE]

Good post. Wine but with cheese. Popcorn smells great but cheese is better with a good cabernet sauvignon.

[BUSY]

[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;8542319]
BUSY: You’re welcome.[/QUOTE]

Bless you HH for supplying the Cliff notes ~ appreciate it !

ETA … I must have missed post #269 !:lol: Bless dacasodivine too !

[Kwill]

I never felt much sympathy for they OP mainly because of this “righteous virtue” about teaching a seller a lesson. Hello. It’s not your money…

I said this too, early on, but it appears is IS her money, since the “client” is a relative – not sure what the relationship is, but the heartbroken kid is either her sister or her niece from what I can gather. So it’s the OP that can’t afford all this stuff, thus the GoFundMe. Which, you know, seems odd since all that money could go to another pony, not legal fees or bailing the pony out.

Is it a crime to lie about something to get a lower price on something (or even acquire it)? I didn’t think it was. Not the way I would like the world to work, but is it actually illegal in some way? All these people that show up and say a horse is for the family, but it’s actually a one way trip to the kill buyer, is that illegal as well?

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8542446]
I said this too, early on, but it appears is IS her money, since the “client” is a relative – not sure what the relationship is, but the heartbroken kid is either her sister or her niece from what I can gather. So it’s the OP that can’t afford all this stuff, thus the GoFundMe. Which, you know, seems odd since all that money could go to another pony, not legal fees or bailing the pony out.

Is it a crime to lie about something to get a lower price on something (or even acquire it)? I didn’t think it was. Not the way I would like the world to work, but is it actually illegal in some way? All these people that show up and say a horse is for the family, but it’s actually a one way trip to the kill buyer, is that illegal as well?[/QUOTE]

If fraud illegal/criminal? Yes, it can be. Can it cause a contract to be voidable? Yes, even when it doesn’t rise to the level of a crime. Contract disputes are civil actions.

[Haybert]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8542446]
I said this too, early on, but it appears is IS her money, since the “client” is a relative – not sure what the relationship is, but the heartbroken kid is either her sister or her niece from what I can gather. So it’s the OP that can’t afford all this stuff, thus the GoFundMe. Which, you know, seems odd since all that money could go to another pony, not legal fees or bailing the pony out.

Is it a crime to lie about something to get a lower price on something (or even acquire it)? I didn’t think it was. Not the way I would like the world to work, but is it actually illegal in some way? All these people that show up and say a horse is for the family, but it’s actually a one way trip to the kill buyer, is that illegal as well?[/QUOTE]

I see your point, but truly it’s got a fishy odor and I don’t think there is a lot of purchase in the idea that some “poor kid” wants to do the show circuit. That’s a load of horse sh#t.

No it’s not a crime to negotiate the best deal, but the thin line between fraud and a sad story is less fuzzy than you think.

By all means let’s put the OP in the category with kill buyers, that should liven things up a bit. I think she’s got an eye on a resale. No harm no foul. But and this is a big but, if you want to flip horses, don’t chase down sellers like a hyena pack and pretend righteous indignation if the deal goes south.

Let’s be real: she’ll be out at LEAST a retainer and the other legal fees of this nonsense. That pony clearly must be worth that kind of expense.

I am not an atty, but worked with community members seeking assistance w/legal help and trust me when I saw the value of the donated time to fill out paperwork or meet for a few minutes, plus retainer, it’s not cheap. So, that pony must be a wonder to do all that. If she’s “funding poor kids” yet has to run a GFM for legal cost to fight a battle b/c her blood’s all up, that means she’s got a tasty chunk of meat in her mouth or she’s just itching for a battle.

I don’t know too many people who’d go that mile for what was it a 2200 pony? Something is up.

It’s got a nose about it.

I wonder if the pony already has a few sniffy buyers who’ve heard about this.

Smart idea going onto a message board where the board history is “we can not only out you, but make you look foolish” then going to court to “teach a lesson” to a seller.
I don’t know the Florida horse scene at all, but I bet that this is a great way to firm up your reputation.

[IPEsq]

There is a fine line between savvy negotiating and material misrepresentation. No way to tell which party is on which side of the line from the information presented, and it’s best that each side keep any remaining facts or allegations off the internet at this stage.

[goneriding24]

Just thought of something, was reading above and not sure if someone said it (I am not spending time looking for it) but seller took the money, signed BOS then “voided the sale.”

My cowgirl opinion, lamed up at the moment, is seller has to buy the pony back from seller at sellers’ price, right?? Buyer technically owned the pony at signing of BOS, seller wanted pony back, so seller, in my mind, has to pay what buyer wants, right?

They could come to an agreement, to cover the purchase price, feed, board, hoof trim and hauler expenses to save going farther.

Seller sells pony to buyer, signs BOS, takes money, then buyer owns pony, seller tries to void sale which has already happened, like undoing a divorce after the judge okays the deal, sooooo…seller needs to buy pony back from seller at $X.00.

As for misrepping their position, buyer is on unfirm ground. I don’t know how you handle that UNLESS seller has all documentation to shove before a judge.

Amiright??