Equine ATTORNEYS! Seller refusing to release horse to shipper! UPDATE: Ransom refused

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=WildandWickedWarmbloods;8538439]
OP will sue for specific performance. So she can get the pony, since the seller apparently cashed the check or wire transfer. The contract/sale was complete when the seller accepted the money. And the OP can sue for any and all expenses, including the shipper being rejected, and for punitive damages as well as for intentional infliction of emotional distress. And for treble damages for the whole crooked mess of not producing the pony when the shipper arrived. So depending on the judge, the OP (or the buyer or both) can get the pony and enough money to punish the worthless seller. That’s a small town where the seller lives/works, so going to federal court is the best way to go.

So OP, start by asking for 100,000 or so, and the pony. Make sure you get a good lawyer who will actively go after the seller. What a worthless person he/she is.[/QUOTE]

As nice as that sounds (whether or not the laws of the jurisdiction allow all of those $ claims), obtaining a judgment against someone for $X does NOT mean the plaintiff gets paid. It means they have a judgment they can try to enforce in hopes of getting paid. Might be more trouble than it’s worth if the sellers do not have any significant cash or assets. For the sake of the clients, it may be best to not shoot so high but to just try to get the pony in possession, safe and sound, and if lucky, costs, expenses, and atty fees.

[RubyTuesday]

Subscribing to this thread and jingling for the OP to be successful in this.

[pinkpony321]

Good luck, OP. Hope you get the pony safely.
Looking forward to a good update!

[Bogie]

I really hope it all turns out well. Jingling for the kid to have her pony.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Altered39;8537675]
Well folks, stay tuned for the details.

We offered to pay her ransom, and it was refused. We will be filing suit.

I realize to some it may be a waste of money, and some feel it would be a good life lesson for the kid to see that not everything goes according to plan… I however have been the kid who has been wronged in the past time and time again, and not had anyone step in to help, even when they could. I lost a lot of faith in the world and people from those who would just stand by watching. I would much prefer to teach the lesson that while yes, people do some terrible things, there is someone who will stand up. Even if it means stepping up as the trainer. It isn’t going to be easy, financially or logistically, as far as attending the hearing. But finding a comparable pony for the price will be just as difficult.

.[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand how it would have been a life lesson in “things don’t work out sometimes” to a kid in this scenario. Seems like NOT suing would have been a lesson in “Some people, especially in the horse business, are slimy, untrustworthy crooks and liars, but we can’t do anything about it beyond chalk up another life lesson and move on. Even if we’re morally and legally right, it’s too much trouble to do anything about it.” Good job showing them the real lesson is “You don’t have to sit back and take it when someone tries to screw you over, even if it’s about a horse.”

[enjoytheride]

[QUOTE=danceronice;8538626]
I don’t understand how it would have been a life lesson in “things don’t work out sometimes” to a kid in this scenario. Seems like NOT suing would have been a lesson in “Some people, especially in the horse business, are slimy, untrustworthy crooks and liars, but we can’t do anything about it beyond chalk up another life lesson and move on. Even if we’re morally and legally right, it’s too much trouble to do anything about it.” Good job showing them the real lesson is “You don’t have to sit back and take it when someone tries to screw you over, even if it’s about a horse.”[/QUOTE]

BUT YOU CAN do something about it, by using the law to take them to court.
You don’t have to let them get away with being untrustworthy crooks.

It’s entirely up to the individual to decide how much trouble it is worth.

Walking away would be “sitting back and taking it.”

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

GAWD. I’m so sorry.

Court of public opinion (aka Facebook?) aware of this yet?

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

The life lesson is that the seller learns that he/she cannot screw over purchasers.

And once you get a civil judgment, you start levying on the farm/stable, the house, the vehicles, the trailer, the horses, etc. You file liens. Yes it is often tedious work, but that’s what a lawyer is for since he/she will get a cut of whatever the OP/purchaser gets. And if the seller tries to sell anything that has a lien on it, no one is going to want to purchase it. OP or her client is a bona fide purchaser for value. Which the UCC applies to all states, including SC.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=WildandWickedWarmbloods;8538688]
The life lesson is that the seller learns that he/she cannot screw over purchasers.

And once you get a civil judgment, you start levying on the farm/stable, the house, the vehicles, the trailer, the horses, etc. You file liens. Yes it is often tedious work, but that’s what a lawyer is for since he/she will get a cut of whatever the OP/purchaser gets. And if the seller tries to sell anything that has a lien on it, no one is going to want to purchase it. OP or her client is a bona fide purchaser for value. Which the UCC applies to all states, including SC.[/QUOTE]

OP described the place as a farm owned by the family of the sellers. You can’t assume that you can go after the property and assets of family members. And so what if you file a lien on the farm and the horses? What does that get you in terms of money in your pocket? It gets you more headaches if you have to sell off those assets. What the lawyer gets is up to the fee arrangement they have with the clients.

[rothmpp]

Even though my usual attitude (and I acknowledge this is tough for horse-crazy kids) is don’t count it as a done deal until the horse is in your barn - I’d be pretty tempted to take this one to a judge. Sleazy horse sellers don’t learn their lesson unless it hits them in the wallet, and sometimes not even then.

No one forced the seller to take the offer, nor to sign the sales agreement. Altering the agreement after it is signed and without agreement from the buyer is… scummy and not legal. When we as a community call it a life lesson to the kid, I feel like we are kind of excusing the behavior of the seller.

[clanter]

if the op’s client is going into legation I suggest rather than civil suit that they look into file in Federal court as breech of contact regarding interstate commerce

There is less to prove and the ramifications can be greater

One of my clients is a wrongful injury attorney who was having a barn built, I was at his place one day looking at the pile of fill dirt that had been hauled in, his comment yes that’s a lot of dirt over 100 cubic yards… ugh you may be a good attorney but that pile is no way 100 yards , so I got an engineer out here to appraise the pile of dirt which was estimated to be no more than 50 yards … that over billing on the dirt and its hauling cost the barn builder a complete barn and more as the dirt was being billed as transported across state lines

They ended up in Federal court, the builder settled before completion of the trial

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=clanter;8538828]
if the op’s client is going into legation I suggest rather than civil suit that they look into file in Federal court as breech of contact regarding interstate commerce

There is less to prove and the ramifications can be greater

One of my clients is a wrongful injury attorney who was having a barn built, I was at his place one day looking at the pile of fill dirt that had been hauled in, his comment yes that’s a lot of dirt over 100 cubic yards… ugh you may be a good attorney but that pile is no way 100 yards , so I got an engineer out here to appraise the pile of dirt which was estimated to be no more than 50 yards … that over billing on the dirt and its hauling cost the barn builder a complete barn and more as the dirt was being billed as transported across state lines

They ended up in Federal court, the builder settled before completion of the trial[/QUOTE]

I have to wonder too, depending on how horse was advertised and such, if a case for internet fraud might be made here.

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=rothmpp;8538820]
Even though my usual attitude (and I acknowledge this is tough for horse-crazy kids) is don’t count it as a done deal until the horse is in your barn - I’d be pretty tempted to take this one to a judge. Sleazy horse sellers don’t learn their lesson unless it hits them in the wallet, and sometimes not even then.

No one forced the seller to take the offer, nor to sign the sales agreement. Altering the agreement after it is signed and without agreement from the buyer is… scummy and not legal. When we as a community call it a life lesson to the kid, I feel like we are kind of excusing the behavior of the seller.[/QUOTE]

Yep.

[HungarianHippo]

OP, you really make a compelling case and I seriously hope you prevail against these slimeballs. But I would give serious thought about the go fund me page. No child in the entire world needs a horse. It is a complete, utter luxury item, while other children are living in shelters and in other seriously dire circumstances. Picture writing the gofund me page except everywhere you were going to write horse, write “Rolex watch.” And then imagine the responses you may get. (Besides, it’s a bond, not the same thing as an outright expense.)
Seriously, they should be able to come up with the bond among family friends, and then return the funds to them once the bond is released. It may feel super awkward to ask, but just imagine the distracting firestorm if the go-fund-me page starts getting shared on social media as “here’s what’s wrong with the world, when entitled schmucks like this want me to fund their lawsuit so their little girl can have a pony.” I don’t think that’s the case at all, but once this is released into the wider, non-COTH world, it may take on a life of its own, in a way that’s damaging. Don’t do it-- they surely have friends and family that could pitch in a few hundred each, or go to their local bank for a loan.

[In_the_Air]

why not give us a hint as to what part of south Carolina this is happening…several of us live here and might be able to help.

[bambam]

[QUOTE=clanter;8538828]
if the op’s client is going into legation I suggest rather than civil suit that they look into file in Federal court as breech of contact regarding interstate commerce[/QUOTE] Showing breach of contract in federal court is going to be essentially the same as showing breach of contract in state or municipal court (and both are civil litigation). My guess is your client had a fraud claim but hard to tell from your description.
Federal court only has jurisdiction over non-federal claims (which would include breach of contract) involving residents of different states if the amount in controversy is over $75,000- which, even with damages, does not sound like this is.
OP has an attorney who is in possession of way more facts than we are and we should leave the legal advice to the person she has hired.

[RubyTuesday]

Don’t some attorneys sometimes post bonds? I ask this as someone who has never had to post any kind of a bond.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8538675]
BUT YOU CAN do something about it, by using the law to take them to court.
You don’t have to let them get away with being untrustworthy crooks.

It’s entirely up to the individual to decide how much trouble it is worth.

Walking away would be “sitting back and taking it.”[/QUOTE]

That would be what I said, yes. Which is OP is smart enough to do. “Sometimes it doesn’t work out” is never good advice when it’s someone attempting to cheat you. (Especially if you can get the criminal courts involved in your favor, too. That can really ruin the bad seller’s day.)

[Sugarwells]

I hope you recover the money or pony soon. Starting a Go Fund Me sounds like a bad idea.

[Altered39]

[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;8538908]
OP, you really make a compelling case and I seriously hope you prevail against these slimeballs. But I would give serious thought about the go fund me page. No child in the entire world needs a horse. It is a complete, utter luxury item, while other children are living in shelters and in other seriously dire circumstances. Picture writing the gofund me page except everywhere you were going to write horse, write “Rolex watch.” And then imagine the responses you may get.[/QUOTE]

Ugh, I just set up the page, but now you have me back on the fence. While I do agree with the analysis that many outside the horse world may come to, I also feel that this is not a situation where money is being asked to BUY some kid a horse as a luxury. This is a less fortunate child who wants a career, and a client who has put forth every effort and hard earned money to buy something. They have been wronged, stolen from, and it is going to pose a financial challenge to right it. We fully expected to go it alone, but I do think it would be an amazing thing for people to unite, whether merely in thoughts and jingles, or with any assistance one may wish to offer. We are grateful for either, but are not asking for anything.

[edit]

Thank you all for all of the support. I confirmed with the attorney this evening, and we are moving forward.