I wanted to start a thread that isn’t about the separate event or the course designer and directly lists the riders who died so you don’t have to open the thread to find out.
Benjamin Winter died following a rotational fall today at Luhmuhlen on his second trip XC (first trip a double clear on Wild Thing Z) on his mount Ispo. Cause of death is listed as head trauma.
Jordan McDonald died following a rotational fall today on his horse Only Me at the Nunney Horse Trials. He died as a result of traumatic injuries due to his fall.
A horse named Liberal, ridden by Tom Crisp suffered a presumed aortic rupture at Luhmuhlen.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7623480]
Are we HAVING FUN yet?
Is there a POINT?
This is SPORT?
HOW MANY MORE before someone starts asking those questions?[/QUOTE]
Not helpful. I’ve known several riders killed just walking on their horses and one while on the ground leading. So are you going to stop riding? I know a few who have but I personally am not.
This is tragic…and it needs to be evaluated carefully…but not beyond risks that I believe I take every time I swing a leg over a horse. And if you don’t think you are taking a risk every time you ride…you are lying to yourself.
So far this year, two in our area have been killed while trail riding (no helmets, grrr). Two others have had serious head injuries while schooling masterful horses on the flat who simply tripped (both HAD helmets and are alive accordingly). Another died when horse kicked out while owner was picking feet.
And at least one more at a Western show where their cardboard cowboy hats did not prevent skull facture.
I know there are more, but those are the recent ones fresh in my head. So…it is an empty argument.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7623480]
Are we HAVING FUN yet?
Is there a POINT?
This is SPORT?
HOW MANY MORE before someone starts asking those questions?[/QUOTE]
These questions have been asked. That is why there are approved helmets, air vests and frangible pins. Also why riders can be eliminated for dangerous riding.
And more questions will be asked about why these precautions did not save the riders.
In the case of the Englishman, we do not know if the cardiac arrest preceeded the fall or resulted from the fall. In either case, frangible pins did not work effectively.
But it is not helpful to go screaming around asking why these issues have not been addressed. Eventing is a dangerous sport. So is being a jockey, so is sky diving.
If you do not think that this is an acceptable risk, become part of the solution and work to make it safer.
Very unlikely that the rider had a cardiac arrest in the midst of a rotational fall. Cardiac arrest is the final common pathway in all death, but likely not the full explanation here. Common fatal injuries from this type of fall including devastating head trauma, high cervical spine injury, or blunt chest trauma would all lead to cardiac arrest.
It is a terrible tragedy and I don’t wish to speculate - but do think it is important to realize that the fall was the cause here, not an unrelated cardiac event in a 30 year old athlete which just happened to coincide with his horse rotating and landing on him.
[QUOTE=wildlifer;7623603]
So far this year, two in our area have been killed while trail riding (no helmets, grrr). Two others have had serious head injuries while schooling masterful horses on the flat who simply tripped (both HAD helmets and are alive accordingly). Another died when horse kicked out while owner was picking feet.
And at least one more at a Western show where their cardboard cowboy hats did not prevent skull facture.
I know there are more, but those are the recent ones fresh in my head. So…it is an empty argument.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. I don’t think discipline should be used as an argument, people die in every side of working with horses. I’m sick of eventing walking around with a sign on its back. Heck… my SO is out of commission from just trying to go catch his horse (horse was not even involved).
I partially understand why eventing gets targeted, it does seem the deaths and injuries are more condensed in this sport. From the press conference that was held earlier today, it does look like they’re really looking into the death at Luhmühlen.
I’m deeply saddened that we lost two upcoming riders in one sport in one day. My condolences go to the families of these riders, and to Tom Crisp who lost his horse on course. It has surely been an extremely rough year on riders and horses across all disciplines. So much for “Year of the Horse”!
Also with the age of the rider (only 30?) and the fact that eventers are usually in pretty good shape I found it really hard to believe it was cardiac arrest was what they are putting the blame on.
[QUOTE=AlexS;7623939]
Tragic day, and the loss of Liberal too. My condolences to all involved.[/QUOTE]
Dear lord, I need to stop reading these things late. Between lululemon and this - which I totally thought “loss of a liberal” and wondered “which liberal?” I think it’s time to have my reading glasses fixed.
A cardiac arrest doesn’t happen instantly. It is likely since he is in good shape that he didn’t realize that’s what was happening, usually you would start having intense chest pain which would alter your strength, potentially cause shortness of breath, or dizziness. This may not have been why he did, but I do believe that if he was in the midst of having a cardiac arrest approaching a jump that the approach would have been altered, perhaps causing the horse to misjudge or not be in proper balance.
And anyone can have one at any age, you don’t know what hereditary background Jordan had. Im 28 and have a family history so I already have to undergo preventative testing. You don’t have to be fat, old or out of shape.
Ive seen rotational falls occure at all levels of showjumping… so I think blaming the jumps is a cheap way out.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7623480]
Are we HAVING FUN yet?
Is there a POINT?
This is SPORT?
HOW MANY MORE before someone starts asking those questions?[/QUOTE]
Your hysteria is uncalled for and unhelpful… Do try to think a bit before posting about events that are this serious. You may find yourself needing a third incarnation…
All fatalities are looked at very closely, no one wants this to happen.
Going off on a forum immediately after the death of 2 riders is bad form. Honestly , can’t you see that?
There are many dangerous sports in the world and people do die while participating in them. They aren’t stupid and take the risk knowingly.
NO ONE likes it. It is tragic. It is also the CHOICE of many, many, people to take calculated risks and participate in these sports.
Love and condolences to the families and friends of Benjamin Winter and Jordan McDonald.
[QUOTE=Vic_007;7624169]
A cardiac arrest doesn’t happen instantly. It is likely since he is in good shape that he didn’t realize that’s what was happening, usually you would start having intense chest pain which would alter your strength, potentially cause shortness of breath, or dizziness. This may not have been why he did, but I do believe that if he was in the midst of having a cardiac arrest approaching a jump that the approach would have been altered, perhaps causing the horse to misjudge or not be in proper balance.
And anyone can have one at any age, you don’t know what hereditary background Jordan had. Im 28 and have a family history so I already have to undergo preventative testing. You don’t have to be fat, old or out of shape.
Ive seen rotational falls occure at all levels of showjumping… so I think blaming the jumps is a cheap way out.
RIP to Jordan and Benjamin.[/QUOTE]
No, cardiac arrest just means his heart stopped. It’s what happens when people die from traumatic injuries. The mechanisms have been mentioned in a post above. The statement from nunney simply reads that his heart was not beating when paramedics got to him.
Not trying to take away from your own health history, just clarifying that they are not using the term cardiac arrest synonymously with “heart attack”.
yes your right. I thought one of the articles I had read did refer to it as a heart attack though. However, still sad! My comment in regards to heart attacks was a response to someone stating above that younger people can’t have heart attacks. Which isn’t true
In this case though I wish they would stop referring to his cause of death as a cardiac arrest, it alludes people to think something happened before the fall not that it happened because of the fall.
[QUOTE=skydy;7624235]
Your hysteria is uncalled for and unhelpful… Do try to think a bit before posting about events that are this serious. You may find yourself needing a third incarnation…
All fatalities are looked at very closely, no one wants this to happen.
Going off on a forum immediately after the death of 2 riders is bad form. Honestly , can’t you see that?
There are many dangerous sports in the world and people do die while participating in them. They aren’t stupid and take the risk knowingly.
NO ONE likes it. It is tragic. It is also the CHOICE of many, many, people to take calculated risks and participate in these sports.
Love and condolences to the families and friends of Benjamin Winter and Jordan McDonald.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Vic_007;7624262]
yes your right. I thought one of the articles I had read did refer to it as a heart attack though. However, still sad! My comment in regards to heart attacks was a response to someone stating above that younger people can’t have heart attacks. Which isn’t true
In this case though I wish they would stop referring to his cause of death as a cardiac arrest, it alludes people to think something happened before the fall not that it happened because of the fall.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The British media have misinterpreted the press statement’s wording and are off and running with the “heart attack” story. I just read a super inaccurate story a few minutes ago. sigh I guess it doesn’t matter. A friend and wonderful horseman is gone and leaves behind his wife who he as been with since they were both horse crazy 15 year olds. I am sitting here shaking as I type wondering how I will come to terms with this, but nothing breaks my heart more than contemplating the emptiness and devastating loss Shandiss must be feeling today :((((
Be kind!
I have admired COTH forums for many years. We are not in a “virtual” world. This is heartbreaking and immediate, and reality.
If COTH can’t be counted on anymore, to have a sane voice in the face of tragedy then many of us will be left with nothing of worth (on a horsey BB) to relate to.
A sombre day in B.C. today as our kids grew up with Jordan and Shandiss.
Was watching an event today and the story hung over us like a black cloud.
Condolences to all.
