Eventing's Biggest Enemy?

[Paintbrlrcr]

[QUOTE=TheBrat;8938479]
I am an official and had I seen you do this at my event I would have asked the TD to take action. I understand the idea of training the horse after having something like that happen however, you have been eliminated from the competition and therefore you should not be participating in the competition after that point. Bring the horse back for schooling the day after. Rules are enforced in warm ups as well as on course. There are a variety of reasons as to why we don’t allow riders who have fallen to get back on. For example what if you had been injured in the fall, concussion/neck injury. You would be putting everyone in the warm up at risk[/QUOTE]

Just curious - what level have you ridden at? What level have you trained horses to compete at?

[txhorsetrainer]

[QUOTE=TheBrat;8938484]
Unless of course, as an ULR, you believe that these rules should apply to everyone except you??[/QUOTE]

No, is there a rule stating you cannot remount and ride the horse after falling off?? If there is, i am not aware of it. The medic came and checked me out and cleared me to remount. I went back to sj warmup (which was finished and empty) , so as not to be in the way of other competitors. The horse jumped around nicely and I put him up. I wasnt going to let his last memory be him throwing me off. If you fall, you should get back on. Isn’t that a horseback riding rule??
And, it sounds like you were not there, so I don’t know who you got your story from, but those are not the facts. People tend to embellish things and tell the story their way.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=Paintbrlrcr;8938493]
Just curious - what level have you ridden at? What level have you trained horses to compete at?[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what the OP is talking about.

Us Smurfs can’t say d*ck because we didn’t run around Rolex

[FrittSkritt]

[QUOTE=txhorsetrainer;8938368]
I can only assume you are talking about me here, as there are only 3 of us competing there at hh that are “rolex riders” & I don’t believe either of the other 2 fell off… and I am not sure who told you this, but it is not the facts. I fell off of a young training level horse before the water on xc. I waited there next to the jump judges for medical to check me out and then walked him back up to warm up. I remounted him in sj warm up and jumped him for about 5 minutes over an oxer about 10 times, so he didn’t end the weekend with dumping me in the xc. There was no “beating” or “abusiveness” that went on and I never came off a second time. He had dumped several amateurs in the field at home and has learned to get away with it. When I fell, he reared up and hot me in the face with his poll, and I came off balance. I held onto his reins and left the course immediately. I do not see anything wrong with taking him back to warm up and jumping a few jumps so that he does not get away with this behavior.[/QUOTE]

I understand the need to end the day on a positive note (aka taking a jump or two in warmup after having a dirty stop or something to reiterate going over a fence is the proper response :yes:), ten times seems excessive. But hey, I’m just a LLR.

[Frivian]

Not sure what the rule says specifically about riding the same horse in a warmup after being eliminated on that horse…but, I do know that I was eliminated on XC (not for falling off, mind you, but for refusals) at an event this summer. After leaving the course I specifically asked if I could school my horse over one or two (not TEN!) warmup fences just to make sure he wasn’t being rewarded for refusing. I was told “no” in no uncertain terms. Maybe I’m too much of a smurf to have the rules bent for me.

[TheBrat]

[QUOTE=Paintbrlrcr;8938493]
Just curious - what level have you ridden at? What level have you trained horses to compete at?[/QUOTE]

I don’t see why that is relevant. I have been involved in the sport as a rider, owner and official for 40+ years. If my opinion on this issue (which is being proven for me in this thread in less than 24 hours) is only going to be dismissed because I haven’t ridden above Prelim, then I am even more disheartened then before

[Marigold]

[QUOTE=TheBrat;8938363]
I do remember reading that article now you mentioned it. I wonder if they deliberately changed the name from RF Clearwater to just Clear Water for a reason? [/QUOTE]

I believe it’s a branding thing. ML has said in the past that she likes the eventers to carry the RF, but does not apply it to her jumpers.

Now, whether they ever intended to event the horse, I don’t know, nor do I know why they added the space (from Clearwater to Clear Water).

All that said, per the FEI records, the horse’s name has never been changed and has been Clear Water from birth.

[Jealoushe]

The rule says after elimination you are DONE from the competition. Meaning the number is no longer in use, and could be read as you shouldn’t be riding the horse after.

Maybe that horse should do some schooling shows where it can be schooled out of it’s habit of dumping riders and corrected in a more appropriate atmosphere. But yeah, just a LL rider here.

[JenJ]

does anyone know off hand if, even though eliminated by a fall on course, the rules allow for remounting and schooling that same horse, once cleared by medics?

I hope to never have to find out, but, I really dislike the idea of ending the day with a soft fall, and not being able to remount and jump something small and easy.

[TheBrat]

[QUOTE=Marigold;8938534]
I believe it’s a branding thing. ML has said in the past that she likes the eventers to carry the RF, but does not apply it to her jumpers.

Now, whether they ever intended to event the horse, I don’t know, nor do I know why they added the space (from Clearwater to Clear Water).

All that said, per the FEI records, the horse’s name has never been changed and has been Clear Water from birth.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Marigold. It may also have something to do with the name change rules that the FEI changed recently. I have read many folks are changing names in order to avoid hefty fees

[TheBrat]

[QUOTE=JenJ;8938550]
does anyone know off hand if, even though eliminated by a fall on course, the rules allow for remounting and schooling that same horse, once cleared by medics?

I hope to never have to find out, but, I really dislike the idea of ending the day with a soft fall, and not being able to remount and jump something small and easy.[/QUOTE]

EV 138 10. AFTER ELIMINATION. A competitor eliminated or retired for any reason must leave
the course at once and has no right to continue. If he does not stop at once and it can be
established beyond a reasonable doubt that he should be eliminated or retired, he shouldbe stopped as soon as possible and reported to the ground jury. A competitor must walk his
horse off the course either mounted or dismounted. Violators shall be warned or fined up to
$100. (payable to the Organizing Committee), at the discretion of the Ground Jury.

I read elimination as not being allowed to continue at the show. Period.

[Gestalt]

I believe this problem is much bigger than eventing. No one wants to be the whistle-blower be it in sports, work, school, or home. The history of what happens to the person that “tattles” is not good. They end up shunned and the person in the wrong is protected.

There will be a few people that will speak out, but most will talk behind closed doors. Look at the abusive trainers we all know about. They aren’t outed, they still have clients, and so it goes.

[TheBrat]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8938581]
I believe this problem is much bigger than eventing. No one wants to be the whistle-blower be it in sports, work, school, or home. The history of what happens to the person that “tattles” is not good. They end up shunned and the person in the wrong is protected.

There will be a few people that will speak out, but most will talk behind closed doors. Look at the abusive trainers we all know about. They aren’t outed, they still have clients, and so it goes. :([/QUOTE]

Agree. To be honest I did not want to talk about any of these scenarios in detail, more the overall culture. The he said, she said gets us nowhere

[Larbear]

[QUOTE=Paintbrlrcr;8938493]
Just curious - what level have you ridden at? What level have you trained horses to compete at?[/QUOTE]

I don’t see what this has to do with the original post.

[kcmel]

@TheBrat;8937466

Have you ever witnessed a professional rider abuse a horse?

Have you ever seen a rider break a very obvious rule at a competition and receive no reprimand?

Have you ever looked at a top competitor and thought to yourself “If only his/her adoring owners/sponsors/fans knew half of what they actually are”?

The sad thing is I’m sure that many of you can answer any or all of the above questions with a resounding yes, and if you can’t then chances are you probably will in the near future.

What I am talking about and what I believe is the biggest threat to this sport is the culture of secrecy and the hush mentality that plagues it.

I get it, but I am not going to come on here and say, “I saw Ms/Mr Popular ULR beating the crap out of his/her horse xc schooling today”. Or “I have it from someone who would know that this ULR is using x drug on his/her horses or is abusive to his/her employees”.

Living where I do, I see things first hand and hear a lot second hand, but I’m not going to blab about it all over the internet! And others have a lot more information than me–I am not that ingrained in the local eventing community.

We have already seen in this thread where information was exaggerated, and seen many other examples of this as well.

[LadyB]

Some events in Ontario have had my get off and walk my horse off course after being eliminated for too many refusals. This some times is more dangerous has your hot horse from XC is now leaping around while you attempt to walk them on foot.

Other events I’ve been allowed to stay mounted and walk off course.

I understand the purpose and want to school right away, but that’s more ideal at schooling shows. Any time I’ve had a fall, yeah you want to get back on, but a show is not the place. Plan a schooling and get out when you can.

[Paintbrlrcr]

[QUOTE=TheBrat;8938526]
I don’t see why that is relevant. I have been involved in the sport as a rider, owner and official for 40+ years. If my opinion on this issue (which is being proven for me in this thread in less than 24 hours) is only going to be dismissed because I haven’t ridden above Prelim, then I am even more disheartened then before[/QUOTE]

It matters because anyone can get on the internet, create a COTH profile, and Monday Morning “Arm Chair Quarterback” with OPINIONS about people who have ridden at a level they know nothing about. About situations they did not see, only heard of. About “rules” they can’t reference in a rule book. About how “bad” things in the sport are or riders are or horses are treated. IF you don’t like what you are seeing - get involved. Are you attending the USEA conference in FL this year? Are you reaching out to the individuals responsible for governing the Events, writing the rules, ensuring rules are enforced at events? What about your FEI involvement? AND - even so - as you mentioned, you gave an OPINION. And you know what they say about opinions…

My point is - it’s very easy to get on the internet and criticize and complain about things people know very little about, or things they are making assumptions about, or things they physically have done nothing to try and fix. Griping on an internet forum is easy. DOING something about all these things you are complaining about… well… that’s a different story.

[TheBrat]

[QUOTE=Paintbrlrcr;8938616]
It matters because anyone can get on the internet, create a COTH profile, and Monday Morning “Arm Chair Quarterback” with OPINIONS about people who have ridden at a level they know nothing about. About situations they did not see, only heard of. About “rules” they can’t reference in a rule book. About how “bad” things in the sport are or riders are or horses are treated. IF you don’t like what you are seeing - get involved. Are you attending the USEA conference in FL this year? Are you reaching out to the individuals responsible for governing the Events, writing the rules, ensuring rules are enforced at events? What about your FEI involvement? AND - even so - as you mentioned, you gave an OPINION. And you know what they say about opinions…

My point is - it’s very easy to get on the internet and criticize and complain about things people know very little about, or things they are making assumptions about, or things they physically have done nothing to try and fix. Griping on an internet forum is easy. DOING something about all these things you are complaining about… well… that’s a different story.[/QUOTE]

Yes. Agree. You raise good points. I could be doing more. In all honesty, I am also afraid of speaking out at things like the convention you mentioned and emailing event organizers.

It’s the sad, pathetic truth

[JenJ]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8938607]
Some events in Ontario have had my get off and walk my horse off course after being eliminated for too many refusals. This some times is more dangerous has your hot horse from XC is now leaping around while you attempt to walk them on foot.

Other events I’ve been allowed to stay mounted and walk off course.

I understand the purpose and want to school right away, but that’s more ideal at schooling shows. Any time I’ve had a fall, yeah you want to get back on, but a show is not the place. Plan a schooling and get out when you can.[/QUOTE]

mandatory dismount after elimination for refusals???
I hope you weren’t at the far end of the course.

i thought you just had to leave the course at a walk.

guess it is not a bad thing not to have expertise in these rules by experience.

my last elimination by refusal was about 4 years ago and i voluntarily dismounted … the TD came by to help me remount for the long walk back.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8938247]
Depo is a banned substance? This is something I didn’t know.

Given to Twizted Syster. I honestly had no idea that it was a banned substance since really everyone uses it, it seems like.[/QUOTE]

It is not a banned substance. It is a “controlled medication”. If it was a banned substance the guilty party would not be eligible for an administrative sanction. They would be provisionally suspended when the horse tested positive.