Eventing's Biggest Enemy?

[LadyB]

JenJ, yes was asked to dismount, I was about 3 fields in, halfway through my course at a dreaded coffin. I honestly questioned them, but it was a JJ relaying the message, not their fault. So I did as I was told, but man walking a hot tb that’s ramped up is never fun!

Skydy, good to know. I think its mostly used in Hunters to be honest, I’ve never understood why you would give Depo to a gelding if they’re a little hot, I would think you just ride them as they are? Again I’m a LL rider… what do I know.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

I have no desire to dive into the larger, deeper discussion here, but in the case of the trainer who has posted in her own defense on this thread, I am honestly trying to look at both sides of the issue - because there are at least two sides and probably more.

On one hand, we have the OP’s account of the incident which doesn’t match the trainer’s - not surprising - especially since one of the two was there, and the other wasn’t. Beyond the incident, we have two different interpretations of what a participant can/can not do on the show grounds after being eliminated. OP’s interpretation of the cited rule is black and white. But EV 138 is specifically about the cross country portion of the event. There may be other rules that address whether the rider can get back on the horse anywhere on the showgrounds after being eliminated, but that wasn’t what was cited.

Having been a keeper of rule books for a much lower level organization, I know it’s very hard to write completely unambiguous rules. Unless it is the same person doing the interpreting/enforcing all the time, there is almost always the potential for different interpretations.

[TheBrat]

Well it seems that in just talking about this issue, I have already touched a few nerves. I have already received PMs attacking me about my post.

The irony…

Either way, I am too old and tired to keep this up. Thanks to all who weighed in. I am encouraged in that some of you see what I see too.

And to those who attacked me about the accuracy and validity of just the handful of examples I used to reinforce my main point - I sincerely hope that I was wrong, and those things did not occur. No one more than me wants to be wrong about abuse, cheating and tainting this sport.

I really hope I am wrong.

I will be deleting the OP. I will openly say that I can’t and won’t hack the backlash.

I’m going to go for a hack! Ponies always make me feel better

[LadyB]

Seriously, people are immature enough to message you about something that is public. When you act the way you do at a horse show, it’s public knowledge. Frig people get so sensitive lately.

Another prime example of the little LLR’s who FUND this sport have no say…

[Sticky_Situation]

OP, you brought up some valid points and while “abuse” isn’t always as black-and-white as it seems at face value, it is unacceptable to have a double standard where big names get away with things the smurfs can’t.

That said, if you are going to call people out publicly, it’s better to stand behind your arguments even when people disagree … that’s the difference between passion and stirring up sh*t.

And yes, ponies do make everything better!

[skydy]

Since someone has quoted your opening post, it isn’t gone…

[beowulf]

if you remove your post, you are feeding into the very mentality that machinates the monster machine.

you should keep it up if possible, otherwise you are letting those that wish to oppress you win.

these things ought to be discussed, and brought to light, because they are horse welfare issues.

[TheBrat]

skydy beowulf & Sticky situation

Appreciate the heads up. I suppose the quote is beyond my control. It will be what it will be.

I normally am not one to speak up. Ill admit it. I came home to a magazine with something in it that just angered me to a point where I suppose I just wanted a place to let it out. I understand putting into a public forum like this I was probably asking for it.

It may be hard to to understand, I just feel like I don’t ‘get it’ anymore. Its something I have spent most of my life doing, and I can barely recognize it sometimes. Everyone has a right to an opinion and to speak their mind, just as people have a right to respond and refute it.

beowulf - Funny, I feel quashed. I am sorry but I just don’t have the energy to defend it.

[JER]

[QUOTE=txhorsetrainer;8938368]
I remounted him in sj warm up and jumped him for about 5 minutes over an oxer about 10 times[/QUOTE]

WTF?

Putting aside all of the :eek: sentiments here…

txhorsetrainer, the SJ warm-up ring is for competitors to warm-up their horses before showjumping. It is not for reschooling horses who have been eliminated from the competition.

[NCRider]

[QUOTE=JER;8938837]
WTF?

Putting aside all of the :eek: sentiments here…

txhorsetrainer, the SJ warm-up ring is for competitors to warm-up their horses before showjumping. It is not for reschooling horses who have been eliminated from the competition.[/QUOTE]

This goes to the whole pro mentality of doing what’s easiest or most convenient for them, rules be damned. It fits in perfectly with hogging warm up fences, jacking up warm up fences illegally, bullying the stadium starter into allowing them and their minions to go out of order in large bunches as soon as they’re ready even if it means smurfs who are ready and warmed up at their posted ride times and up next by order get to sit around and cool their heals. Or letting their working students warm up their horses (I’ve never personally seen that one but I’ve heard about it)

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=JER;8938837]
WTF?

Putting aside all of the :eek: sentiments here…

txhorsetrainer, the SJ warm-up ring is for competitors to warm-up their horses before showjumping. It is not for reschooling horses who have been eliminated from the competition.[/QUOTE]

I fell off my training horse in sj at an event a couple of years ago. I asked for and was given permission to get back on and jump a couple of fences.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8938988]
I fell off my training horse in sj at an event a couple of years ago. I asked for and was given permission to get back on and jump a couple of fences.[/QUOTE]

This just really depends on the event but is at the discretion of the ground jury and not something you should just decide you can go do.

If you were to be injured in the course of jumping the “courtesy fence” etc the liability for the venue and people in charge is exponentially higher because they let you get back on. It’s why courtesy fences are no longer allowed in the h/j world.

[vineyridge]

Spinoff–Drug Rules

The FEI’s drug rules have changed in the past few years. They have adopted the USEF’s two categories of drugs–those with a medical use and those without. There are no administrative sanctions available for the latter category; for the former the sanctions are a slap on the wrist. In the USEF world, the same people get administrative sanctions over and over again and seem to just keep on keeping on with their medicated horses at competitions.

What I want to know is when is the use of a medication the equivalent of drugging for performance enhancement and when is it just the unintended residue of medical use–and how do the authorities tell? Is it the level of chemical in the urine? If the level is low enough that it would not be performance enhancing, then are administrative sanctions available and if it is high to be performance enhancing is it considering drugging?

If there is a legitimate medical use for regumate on a gelding (or even a mare other than to stop cycling for performance purposes), I’d like to know what it is and how common it is?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8938247]
Depo is a banned substance? This is something I didn’t know.

Given to Twizted Syster. I honestly had no idea that it was a banned substance since really everyone uses it, it seems like.[/QUOTE]

Not sure about depo…but you can have mares on Regumate. That is what MOST people do. You just have to fill out a form at in barns at FEI events.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8939018]

If there is a legitimate medical use for regumate on a gelding (or even a mare other than to stop cycling for performance purposes), I’d like to know what it is and how common it is?[/QUOTE]

I’ve never known anyone to give it to geldings but it is thought to help mares from tieing up…which they are more prone to do when cycling strongly. It is VERY common to have a mare on Regumate. I have had several mares that get very back sore as their cycles are that strong and they are much better on Regumate.

[Paintbrlrcr]

[QUOTE=JER;8938837]
WTF?

Putting aside all of the :eek: sentiments here…

txhorsetrainer, the SJ warm-up ring is for competitors to warm-up their horses before showjumping. It is not for reschooling horses who have been eliminated from the competition.[/QUOTE]

She posted show jumping had concluded.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8938988]
I fell off my training horse in sj at an event a couple of years ago. I asked for and was given permission to get back on and jump a couple of fences.[/QUOTE]

Same here.

[BluEventer]

[QUOTE=Paintbrlrcr;8939044]
She posted show jumping had concluded.[/QUOTE]

I have no dog in this fight, but ride times show that there was SJ still going on by the time she would have come off of the xc course

[vineyridge]

Depo-provera and altrenogest (regumate) both act to chemically castrate a male, per the scientific literature. Clear Water is a stallion. If the male is already castrated, why would you need either one? It is birth control for a female. Why would either be used on a male competition horse for what medical reason other than behavior change?

I think it’s interesting that all three American event riders were using hormones that affect sexual characteristics and that have strong behavior modification effects.

They are also the only event riders on the administrative sanctions list, and they were all using the same class of drug. In fact, they are the only event riders on any of the FEI lists.

Could American h/j drug culture be oozing its way into professional eventing?

[JER]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8938988]
I fell off my training horse in sj at an event a couple of years ago. I asked for and was given permission to get back on and jump a couple of fences.[/QUOTE]

@Janet;8939065

Same here.

Which is fine. Because you asked.

txhorsetrainer didn’t say anything about asking or getting permission.

Also, there’s a difference between jumping ‘a couple of fences’ and jumping the oxer 10 times in 5 minutes.

It’s also not how you solve the problem of a horse that dumps you on XC. Unless, of course, the real problem is the rider’s bruised ego.