She’s pretty, but I’m not sure I’d pay this price. :eek:
I understand who she is out of, but i would pay 10-15 grand TOPS. she isn’t broken under saddle, she could get injured… go lame for the rest of her life… -sigh- there is a reason i won’t buy youngsters.
but she sure is pretty!
[QUOTE=Vulcan;5667078]
I understand who she is out of, but i would pay 10-15 grand TOPS. she isn’t broken under saddle, she could get injured… go lame for the rest of her life… -sigh- there is a reason i won’t buy youngsters.
but she sure is pretty![/QUOTE]
She could also be producing foals every year while she has a career. Your right, she is out of a really nice mare as well as having Toto as a sire. 80k is the asking price but if you got her for less I bet it would only take 5 or 6 foals (only a couple years with ET) to pay for her. :lol: As if most horses pay for themselves.
You’re going to see a lot of this in the next few years. Obviously, even with a $5000 stud fee, this person hopes to make a huge profit.
A number of people are going to try to win this lottery…after all, all they need is ONE person willing to pay this ridiculous amt. to make it work.
But this is just a magnification of what always happens with the hot stallion d’jour. Toto just happens to be hotter than most.
I remember the first 2 years Rotspon stood at stud – they actually ran out of his frozen semen, the demand was so high.
Toto has great frozen, so that means almost any fool can do this. He is totally unproved as a sire, so (to me) this filly would not impress me as a breeding mare till HE impresses me.
Just like some people MUST have the newest iPod or other electronic toys, some people MUST have the first Toto foal. Those people will little brains and big wallets will pay for it.
Smart breeder if it works out…can’t blame 'em for taking a shot of finally making some $$ on their horses…
Can’t see it, says page not found, but $80,000 is cheap. A Toto foal sold at auction a week or so ago for the equivalent of $152,500.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5667110]
Smart breeder if it works out…can’t blame 'em for taking a shot of finally making some $$ on their horses…[/QUOTE]
:yes: Ditto.
I could save many horses bound for slaughter and support them the rest of their lives with that amount of money :eek: 
Yes, but they would not be Toto foals. Not all horses are created equal…
And bear in mind the auction Toto foal who went for over $150,000 almost certainly did not reach that price purely by chance. I expect Totilas foals to be normal prices in the next few years because he is covering a lot of mares.
Has anyone be able to figure out who the person is who bought the auction Toto foal? There’s absolutely nothing having to do with horses other than the Toto foal purchase that shows up when the name and Town are Googled. My bet is that she is a straw man for some entity connected with Toto, and that the auction price was driven up artificially.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5667110]
Obviously, even with a $5000 stud fee, this person hopes to make a huge profit.[/QUOTE]
In fact it is $5,000 a dose but fresh is 4,000 EU in advance and another 4,000 when confirmed in foal. I wonder how popular fresh is since the frozen seems to work fine.
[QUOTE=englishcowgirl;5667284]
I could save many horses bound for slaughter and support them the rest of their lives with that amount of money :eek: :D[/QUOTE]
And at the April Keeneland 2yo in Training sale, $11.5 million dollars changed hands. 80k wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow.
What was your point, exactly?
[QUOTE=Tiki;5667206]
Can’t see it, says page not found, but $80,000 is cheap. A Toto foal sold at auction a week or so ago for the equivalent of $152,500.[/QUOTE]
Well I wouldn’t say 80K is cheap only because the FIRST foal in auction was sold 150K. It is a lot of money still and right now it is a collector item but of course when there will be more on the market the price will adjust according to the quality. I think it is a smart move to sell a Totilas foal right now and to breed later for one you would like to keep.
Totilas is 5000€ for one dose of frozen which is roughly 7K USD - plus the cost of insemination. There is no LFG so risk counts for some monetary value IMO.
Yes, a breeder can be ‘smart’ and wait and see if Toto proves himself as a stallion, however someone’s got to be the first 
and hopefully some good mares will be bred to him so that his legacy will live on!
Also, yes in the racehorse industry, 80K is nothing.
Well, the excitement is getting bigger, because now we’re not just looking at newborn babies any more. This year is his second foal crop year. His first foal crop are now yearlings. In 2012, those same youngsters - some of his 2 year old colts will be presented for initial survey and licensing before the various verbands. People are already starting to see how some of these babies are growing up, and the owners of those babies are already well aware of the youngsters’ handleability.
It would be really important to take a close look at the 2 year old stallions being presented next spring, especially for a breeder who has been seriously considering Toto for their breeding program.
Then, in 2013, the colts will be 3 and ready to be performance tested for approvals. No doubt they will be under extremely close scrutiny. The fillies will be presented for their own approvals and MPT’s. Without a doubt there will be a number of young premium mares and most likely a few approved young stallions. When this starts to happen, it would not surprise me if his stud fees increased, because now he has offspring who have begun to prove him as a sire.
I don’t think you know how the system works…with PS in the driver’s seat, I can guarantee a high number of Toto’s sons will be approved. No one wants to be seen with egg on their face.
Not to mention Toto first & even 2nd crop was cherry-picked in terms of mares selection to sell semen to. They didnt’ let him breed alot of crap.
No, unfortunately, to find out his TRUE value as a producer of dressage horses, we will have to wait till those horses are grown and competing themselves.
[QUOTE=rodawn;5667688]
Well, the excitement is getting bigger, because now we’re not just looking at newborn babies any more. This year is his second foal crop year. His first foal crop are now yearlings. In 2012, those same youngsters - some of his 2 year old colts will be presented for initial survey and licensing before the various verbands. People are already starting to see how some of these babies are growing up, and the owners of those babies are already well aware of the youngsters’ handleability.
It would be really important to take a close look at the 2 year old stallions being presented next spring, especially for a breeder who has been seriously considering Toto for their breeding program.
Then, in 2013, the colts will be 3 and ready to be performance tested for approvals. No doubt they will be under extremely close scrutiny. The fillies will be presented for their own approvals and MPT’s. Without a doubt there will be a number of young premium mares and most likely a few approved young stallions. When this starts to happen, it would not surprise me if his stud fees increased, because now he has offspring who have begun to prove him as a sire.[/QUOTE]
I thought 2011 was his first foal crop? Were there foals last year?
[QUOTE=Forte;5667908]
I thought 2011 was his first foal crop? Were there foals last year?[/QUOTE]
I seem to recall seeing some of his foals in 2010 - you know, Forte, in retrospect and hindsight, they might have been test foals for the previous owner, so those might not really count in a true technical way as the test mares would have been very carefully chosen. Although yet again, those youngsters will be 2 years old next spring, old enough for colts to be presented. Then when Gribaldi died he was opened to the world for 2010 and covered, I think (?), around 140 mares. I would have no idea how many he covered so far in 2011.
Kyzteke, Yes I do know exactly how it works, because I’ve been involved with Hanover since the early 1980s and my old Hanoverian mare’s mother was the first Hano imported in British Columbia; however, Schockemohle only exerts some measure of control in Germany. He doesn’t exert control and power over the entire world. There are foals from Toto in Sweden, Holland, Switzerland, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Canada and US and it would not surprise me if there are even a few in Japan since Japan has been quietly embarking on a serious WB breeding/importation program over there too. He doesn’t control those markets so the comment is only partially fair/valid.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;5667431]
Has anyone be able to figure out who the person is who bought the auction Toto foal? There’s absolutely nothing having to do with horses other than the Toto foal purchase that shows up when the name and Town are Googled. My bet is that she is a straw man for some entity connected with Toto, and that the auction price was driven up artificially.[/QUOTE]
And it certainly wouldn’t be the first or the last time this has happened at auction.
Perhaps…but it’s highly unlikely, with a $7K fee, that someone is going to send a crap mare to Totilas. He’s going to get breeders’ best mares…you’d be an idiot to send anything else.
Quite frankly, I think several people need a wake up call. I’ve always been surprised at the low stud fees for successful sporthorse stallions. I’ve been out of QH breeding for quite some time. But it was not unusual to pay $10K or more for a top stallion in the QH world. I don’t think there’s anything unusual about his fee at all.
If I had the money to throw around, I’d pay up. I think conspiracy theories are hogwash. Plenty of people in this world have the bucks to take a chance that the investment will pay off.
