Yep.
The bolting can happen with stimuli whether he’s out for 5 minutes or 10 hours. Doesn’t matter.
And he doesn’t stay wound up, which is also weird. He has his freakout, loses his mind, and then the next minute he’s bugging his buddy again (who, today is SO happy to be on “not-babysitter-duty”).
It wouldn’t really be a problem if it weren’t for the running into fences part. And the charging fences when I’m riding. I’m not in love with that.
How odd!
On the jumping out of the pasture…there is an instagram account I follow, that_dickhead_harley, and Harley is maybe the global expert on jumping pasture fences if anyone needs a good laugh. The insta handle I find amusing well on its own.
In my experience, NSAIDs don’t do anything for neuro type pain. Really big horse like that might be worth some spinal imaging. And we know that EDM has a correlation with lack of enough Vitamin E as a youngster. If he was always stalled and fed hay, not out on grass, it’s possible he has something like that going on. But unfortunately can only be confirmed on necropsy.
I had one that was like this and he turned out to be like 90% blind. Has he had his eyes checked?
Just revisited the research on EDM and CVSM. He doesn’t seem to have any of the other symptoms. He actually articulates his hocks just fine, looks whatever the opposite of lethargic is, and seems to know where his feet are. And he is very bendy - no issues there. No back pain detected, so if there’s anything it’s at the atlas, which is possible, but he does not resist any movement in his neck.
Yes. So - one of the reasons he actually spent an entire year not leaving his stall at all (again, not with me - prior to me trying to figure him out) was an eye injury that required a port. He was cleared by the vet and they say he can see fine, but I have been wondering if he has shadows and that’s what causes the panic.
We’ve had a few blind horses here, and none of them quite acted as bad as him, but they were older and he’s only 9. So it could be the combination of factors.
I’ve known 3 like this. One couldn’t stand bugs. At all. He was fine to ride, but even buzzing would set him off. He was from FL. He just hated being outside-TB.
The other two were QHs. One finally got used to being outside. It was very slow acclimation, which you’ve done. The other never learned to like being outside- he’d been in a pleasure horse barn most of his life.
I also second the vit E for development thought.
Hmm, one more thing I’d try because I am that person. If he normally goes out with a fly mask, try leaving it off. If he doesn’t, try double masking in 2 of the black fine mesh ones. Likely not going to help, but if you have supplies on hand, why not?
FWIW, I have floaters that drive me batshit on occasion. Sunglasses help.
Mine was like this in that it was random too, and I got really concerned when he ran into a shed like you said yours ran into a barn. 12 yo athletic TB. He had problems in a bigger herd too because he couldn’t see the dominant horse approaching and would get caught by surprise/kicked and that made him very fearful in the herd environment. I put him in with my ancient pony and he was better but noises would still make him panic.
I was going to put him down but actually gave him back to a previous owner. He lives in a field with some sheep now, no horses, on a very rural farm without the constant noise of my busy residential neighborhood and does great there. Not a solution for you, though, as that is a one in a million situation. I’m sorry, it is tough.
I second. that his eyes are failing. If he’s running INTO things, that’s not just panic, more like Blind Panic.
Also might help to. try something like Ultra cruz Magnesium Plus.
It can really help. settle spooky nervous types.
I’d also keep the same old steady eddy turnout buddy every day.
Good for you for trying to fix him,
I’d put money on it being the eyes.
I’ll try it - he normally goes out in the spring without, we don’t have bugs just yet (although they are around the corner, supposed to be in the 60s later this week!).
I just went and checked on him. He’s just standing in the stall, chilling. He danced a little when I came by his stall, which is normal for him when he wants attention or alfalfa which is in the room I needed to get the scissors from to rebed the other stalls.
He definitely isn’t blind blind, as he reacts when you have your hand to his face, but shadows or floaters I could totally see being an issue.
Totally makes sense and I don’t know why I didn’t connect it. I guess because the vet said he recovered and it was the first thing they checked with the old owners when he was being difficult then. But - at that point he was also just not acclimated so it could be a combination of all the things (if that makes any sense at all).
He can live in the stall and I can take him out for exercise, but that’s not much of a life. I’d be too afraid to try to find him a pasture situation that he would end up at a sale. He’s not an easy horse in the best of situations.
I’m about to schedule spring shots, so maybe it’s time to have him checked again with a secondary plan in place.
Have you tried really aggressively treating him for pain, to see if that changes things?
I too would suspect there’s something up in his eyes. It’s just so hard to really know about eye stuff since they can’t tell us.
They did a few different tests to treat him for pain to see if it would help. At the time he was being ridden somewhat unsuccessfully (he balks badly under saddle).
Eyes are the one part of vet med that I know the least about. I did read an article that said something like 30% of domestic horses tend to be nearsighted, and if you combine that 30% with a few shadows that could be a very frightening situation for a horse.
He doesn’t have any discharge or anything that I would typically associate with eye issues but now that I’m reading about some of the types of glaucoma that could explain it.
I have a strong opinion to euthanize this poor guy. I’d bet my next paycheck he has horrible pain somewhere or past trauma and a normal life is not possible. He’s a risk to himself and others.
You’ve seen it for yourself -his behavior, how illogical it is at times and you do reference some known medical issues.
I have a mustang that came TERRIFIED of my zero turn, my tractor, cars pulling up, the sound of metal clanging, the wash stall, clippers etc etc etc. All normal for someone who for the first 6 yrs of his life did not experience any of it and is a flight animal.
But today, this guy might still raise his head as I’m coming towards him with machinery but that’s it. He knows he’s safe. We’ve worked through so much and now the plan is to haul to a horseshow this spring. Just to graze, relax and go home. Because it might be a big deal to have all kinds of comotion and he won’t be used to that. Right?
The pain he DID feel - FEC 2100, molar extracation, root canal on an incissor found through fistula in his gum and then xrays is all gone. I’m sure that has all helped EVERYTHING. He’s relaxed and quite the adorable pony and coming along nicely under saddle.
I didn’t see how long you’ve had him but any horse that is able (mentally and physically) will make progress with training. You have a lot of experience. If your gut is telling you this is very wrong - listen to your gut.
I boarded with a horse that had huge anxiety being turned out. Although he did not routinely run through fences. Calling, pacing, running, spinning etc…
He was put on fluphenazine for a few months. Turned out with the chillest horse on the property and put in a regular work program. After a few months they were able to wean him off of it. He was much better under saddle and could be turned out with no issues. One time I went to pull my horse out of his field and the two of them were snoozing together on the pile of hay.
Now this was 20 years ago. I don’t know if fluphenazine is still available for horses. I don’t know the first dose amount or how they tapered it.
ETA- I feel like the fluphenazine provided a time for his brain to reset and figure out he really was safe in turn-out
What about individual turnout in a paddock that has a small run-in shed? Preferably next to the other horses. But then he can determine when he wants to be in the stall and when he wants to be out.
Of course, that assumes you have this setup or can put it together. No small ask.
I’ve had him for 3 years.
We’ve made a lot of progress with his manners (he came with none) and little things like standing at the mounting block etc but the paddock nut I have not been able to crack.
He was sent to me in part because I’m really good at rehab cases. I’ve always had the difficult horses and done enough colt starting to be able to fix or prevent most issues.
I’m firmly in the “better a day too soon” camp, but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t overlooking something that I would kick myself for later.
Seeing the rest of my herd being so chill out there today just makes me realize that they’ve been dealing with his nonsense for quite long enough. Their whole demeanor has changed with him inside.
This is out there, but could he have headshaking syndrome and he is getting random zaps causing his behavior? Maybe he does not want to go out cause his face hurts in the sun/wind or whatever his trigger is. I had a mare like this. Oddly enough she also had an eye issue at one point needing stall rest (surgery, catheter) and I often thought the two may have been related somehow as they showed up at the same time. I’ve wondered if she may have injured the eye rubbing because she had facial discomfort we were not yet aware of.
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