Adding: First turn him out into his outside stall for like 10min. So he isn’t able to start drama. He should not associate this panel stall with any sort of drama. So turn him out for short periods. 10mins in the morning, 10mins midday, 10mins in the evening. Feed him his favourite food there, so he’s eager to go there and associates nice things. Than expand the times he’s outside in his “pasture stall”.
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We don’t know that, at all. People have run the gamut on this thread with what’s wrong with this horse, without thinking “hey, maybe he just struggles to control his emotions - perhaps we can TRY tying while he’s supervised from afar and see if he can work this out.”
Instead we’ve got a blind neuro horse with EDM. This place is turning into a mini-Facebook, I swear.
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I - personally - believe, this is 100% behavioral. He just doesn’t feel save outside and wants to flee inside, as soon as something is unsettlling him.
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@Alterration, I’m sure you know some Saddlebred barns keep the barns dark and use things like firecrackers, fire extinguishers, etc. to light those horses up. And they don’t go out. Are you sure he was never in a saddleseat environment? I have an Arab who has lived w me a very long time. He grew up turned out, so that wasn’t a problem.
However, he was in a saddleseat barn for some time-not fancy enough to be a park horse, even though that’s how he was bred. Loud noises, gun shots and fire crackers turn him inside out. We use earplugs and ace around the Fourth of July. I wonder if that could help your horse. Oh…this one doesn’t take cues from other horses either. He is a very nice horse and his owner loves him. I do, too.
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My neck horse was also hypervigilant. Wind would set him off especially. He didn’t run through fences or anything but also seemed to think all the other calm horses were dummies because clearly they were all going to die, when something would set him off. In those moments, ear plugs and his stall (with a window) helped a lot. Getting to the stall was a bit exciting at times. He also balked badly under saddle and apart from his neck issues had a host of other body problems. Towards the end of his short life, we put him on Depo Provera out of desperation. He had spent many months on Prozac in the past, but it wasn’t doing the trick for his outside worry (was pretty good when he’d have to be on stall rest). He still didn’t like wind or bugs or a number of things, but he also didn’t act like he had to alert the media about any little thing anymore. I know the drug is now controversial and banned in competition—we weren’t trying to compete; I just wanted him to be a little happier in his own skin because I didn’t have my own place to cater to his every whim 24/7. He had done extensive groundwork training geared towards helping him with self management and to let down after something would set him off. But he still had trouble when out on his own. Maybe some horses with a bit of a screw loose have a hormonal or chemical imbalance of some kind. If you couple that with any kind of other physical vulnerability feeling, then of course they can’t snap out of being in fight/flight easily. (Balking is fight, and of course running through things is flight).
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Exactly! We don’t know squat. We are all here tossing out our ideas to the OP who asked for ideas.
There is absolutely no way any of us can be 100% sure whether the horse has only behavioural issues, only medical issues (or what those are), or a mix of the two.
One thing we do know in 2024 is that a lot of issues previously thought to be purely behavioural are caused by medical issues of one kind or another.
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Uveitis flare-ups don’t. always show outward symptoms
.The damaging inflammatory changes may be deep inside the eye, again with no outward symptoms.
Uveitis IS progressive. Sensitivity to light is common.
56% of cases eventually go blind
60% of horses showing uveitis
at First medical exam have already lost 30% of vision.
This horse needs a good optical exam plus a treatment plan.
UV goggles for outdoors are available. Also special masks to
prevent dust from eyes.
Uveitis can be very painful.
Accept that he STILL has uveitis
and it needs medical help.
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Sure, I don’t disagree. But if tying this horse (on a blocker ring, with supervision) gives him a chance to maybe figure a new way to cope, that’s better than getting euthed for the behavioral problem.
I would hope we aren’t euthing for behavior stuff when we aren’t willing to try, you know, training them first. 
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Oh he 100% was in a saddleseat environment as a youngster.
I’m sorry - I didn’t explain it at all well. Which happens when people ask questions and I try to answer but don’t give the full story - my fault.
He was born in a saddleseat environment. Showed as a weanling/yearling in-hand. Then went into Saddleseat hunters. Shown a few times, not terrifically successfully but he was 3 and very large so I’m unsurprised. Went into driving training. Sold to my friend. I doubt he was truly with another horse nor outside from the time he was weaned, possibly not even before that.
Friend intitially had him at a saddleseat barn where he ended up with eye injury. Barn wasn’t dark, but he was stalled 100% of the time that he wasn’t working and had a tiny run. When he was working, he was in an indoor. Eye injury because dork wanted to play across the fence with a buddy and made a mistake.
Eye healed, friend no longer wanted him at saddleseat barn for other reasons. Took him to a dressage barn. Trainer #1 and 2 failed with him there.
She moved him out of state to a hunter barn. I knew that was going to be a disaster. Behavioral issues out the wazoo there, advised to euthanize because his “hocks were so bad they had no joint space to inject”. But he shows no sign of hock lameness whatsoever. And if there are no joint spaces then they are likely fused. But he has a ton of hock motion barefoot, gets up and down with zero issues, bucks and farts with no issue, and shows literally zero signs of lameness behind. I have suspicions about that entire situation.
She sent him to me in lieu of euth - it was her first horse as an adult, we were close friends, and I felt terrible that she’d had this experience. I thought the horse had had kind of a raw deal - he never had consistent training. Even at the saddleseat barn where he was going reasonably well he kept tearing off shoes (another whole story) and so maybe he had less than 3 months of true saddle training.
I figured I’d give him a shot at not being in saddleseat land by slowly acclimating him. I’ve done this with many other horses and I do understand him, having spent some time in saddleseat barns and taken some saddleseat lessons, even though it’s not my discipline. Unlike with my other saddlebred - this has failed.
He was bred to be a saddleseat horse, but does not have a ton of natural motion. That’s why I think if I can get him going, he may be ok as a shatner horse in saddleseat land. He has a very upright neck and he is very very pretty. At the very least he jogs very nicely (although I’ve never tested this theory, I was told this by his breeder).
I still believe the under saddle problems can be solved. He WAS going at saddleseat barn #1, but when he got to dressage barn after his injury he had had significant time off and was in 5 year old mentality. He decided to say “no” and though he was never terribly rude about it, he was able to “not go”. He has a very strong personality, and mistakes with him take a long time to extinguish. He is also incredibly smart - just not smart at being a horse.
I do understand saddlebreds and their often quirky personalities - we can talk all day about whether that’s inborn or made, but they definitely have them. I’ve got another one here who is also quirky (but he loves the outside…most of the time). I find they express themselves very clearly. When my other one doesn’t want to go out, usually because of bugs, he will very politely stop in the aisle and while he WILL move, it’s definitely begrudging. My other saddlebred is much more on the fiesty fiery side, but both have incredibly strong opinions and are not what I would call amateur horses.
That is why I have not given up on him so far. I’ve had him for 3 years, but he’s been on the back burner most of the time as I have 4 horses that all require attention, I manage a barn, and I have a full time job. He has always been tricky and courting disaster outside, but I figured I’d give him time. When he ran into the gate yesterday I’d had it. Hence the posting.
I knew this was going to be difficult given the fits and starts of his training, but I really do want to give him a fair shake.
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My Old Man had no space left to inject but was bilateral lame (edit, meaning, you couldn’t really see it).
It took about 7k in diagnostics and trying to reach that conclusion tho. 13 years later, he’s still lame on them. They never fused completely, despite arthrodesis.
It’s possible!
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Yes - I understand that it’s often hard to see. However, my local vet had the same questions about the possibility of it - I have NOT re-xrayed. Planned on doing that before I got him going, but then I got busy. There are other reasons I have some suspicions about the whole situation.
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You said tying a horse wasn’t cruel.
I replied that yes, in some circumstances, it can be.
No, neither one of us know what’s up with this horse here. In my experience, once they start running with no regard to their own safety, there’s more going on than “just” behavioral.
I try hard to be kind to the horse. If this horse cannot control these “episodes,” tying him is not fair to him, and very likely setting up something ugly.
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I’d love to be your friend in real life. You are a smart, kind, really thinking horse person!!! I also have a DHH/saddlebred in my barn. (I’m actually a hunter barn but very open to nice people w nice horses.). He was also a mess, but has turned out to be very nice. It has taken time and trying different things out of the norm to get him to understand his new lifestyle. He’s on Vision…I’m not sure how that compares to your product. He also gets no grain…just beet pulp, alfalfa pellets and Vermont Blend Pro.
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In every single post I specified a blocker ring. Have you used one before?
The horse, if committed, can get free. They aren’t tied solid.
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I don’t know Vision - do you have a link? And likewise!
I 100% agree that these horses sometimes require some out of the box thinking. They do not know anything about horsing, and their personalities make everything “bigger” than a non-saddleseat breed would make them.
I have him on grass and alfalfa hay, plus beet pulp and KIS Trace plus a coat supplement, MSM, fly control, ViaCalm, and extra mag. I’ve mucked about a fair bit with his diet, and nothing really seems to change it for better or for worse. I can’t imagine grain would do him much good. He’s in good flesh, maybe a little portly now, and his chest is finally widening. That has taken forever.
He’s SO person-oriented. He wants your attention constantly. Some of the paddock antics (like rushing the fence) seemed to get better when I went and worked him before the other horses. I didn’t have to do much, just pay attention to him. He loves to stand and be groomed and is totally non-reactive for that.
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But he can control them. If I’m at the end of the line (and I’m quite sure it’s nothing special about me - quite possibly it’st just a human he trusts), he doesn’t do it. So it’s in there, he’s just not capable of self-management.
So - I’m not sure I’d start by just tying him up and letting him fight it out like the old guys did - but I don’t think there’s any harm in seeing how far or long I can be away from him and what he does. And a blocker is perfect.
I did something similar with my other saddlebred who just couldn’t stand still to save his life. Didn’t kill him. He did try to pull back, discovered that earned him nothing, not even a fight so he was like “oh bother, guess I’ll just stand here”. Now he can cock a leg tied, but before he was a perpetual motion machine. He literally tap danced on the cross ties. It was irritating at best.
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I don’t know if this works. Vision is made by Vita-Flex. I get it from Chewy or FarmVet. My DHH cross will stand in cross ties forever for attention.
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The OP has had this horse for THREE years. The OP sounds (from what we can tell) to be reasonably knowledgeable and to have tried many things. Euthanizing this horse would probably not be the worst thing ever.
Furthermore, he flips his pancakes when NOT tied. For all we know he ties perfectly. For all we know he could tie for 3 hours and then flip his pancakes and end up hurting himself because the nature of a ‘patience’ post is effing solid - an obstacle that he could actually hurt himself on if he didn’t do what you expect him to do - pull back against the line.
THREE years this horse has been unhappy and the OP is now at the point of reaching out for anything they may not have already tried. Three YEARS. It is absolutely not too soon to euthanize this horse to give him some peace.
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It’s also not wrong to try tying the poor SOB.
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MSM can cause high energy levels in horses and can influence the manifestation of ulcers. It’s only a small thing, but try leaving the MSM away for a bit. May help him being calmer and less stressed.
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