Hi all! Looking for some suggestions after a full vet work up and no definitive answers yet. I have a 4yr old Haflinger that I’ve owned for about a year now. We spent the first year doing groundwork and learning all the basics. She has always been sensitive and reactive to the point that it’s really hard to get her brain back when she’s having an anxious episode. I’ve worked with trainers and we’ve kept the work relaxed and have never pushed her beyond her comfort zone, which means the progress is incredibly slow. She is in full training now and still struggles with anxious spooky behavior. She can be reactive to touch and really struggles with standing still. I was convinced she has ulcers and recently got her scoped. She has very, very mild pyloric ulcers. She was already on sucralfate which has not helped. We are upping sucralfate and also adding gastrogard to see if it makes a difference. My vet does not think that the state of her ulcers would cause this much reactivity. Some days it seems like she’s never been handled a day in her life. She’s had a full lameness/neuro work up and all has come back normal. She’s had her eyes checked multiple times by a specialist and there is nothing wrong with her vision. I pulled a Lyme and vitamin E on her recently- those results have not come back yet. I also suspected EPM which my vet does not suspect as she presents no neuro symptoms. When I originally got her within the first few months when I would touch her hindquarters sometimes she’d almost collapse in her hind end. She does not do this anymore but I wonder if it was an early symptom of whatever is presenting now. She also has a fantastic diet, unlimited forage etc, and is practically the size of a yearling. There is no muscling in her hind end. My other Haflinger is fat on air. I’m at a loss as to what else to test for. I know for sure there is something wrong with her that goes beyond behavioral. Any ideas as to what to possibly check for next?
There could be some SI or other hind end issue such as sore stifles causing this. It sounds like it could also be a muscle issue as well such as PSSM, however, actually diagnosing muscle issues with a tissue biopsy is expensive and cost prohibitive for a lot of people.
You could follow a PSSM type diet to see what that brings. Add natural Vitamin E, magnesium and a good amino acid profile supplement and see if that helps.
Not sure what her first few years were like or if past trauma is part of the issue either.
One of my geldings had a complete personality switch last winter like that - he went from steady eddy beginner type to spooking at his own shadow. Like you, I suspected (and treated) for ulcers, pulled Lyme, etc. Eventually, vet and I got to the point at throwing things at the wall and saw what stuck: pulled blood for EPM (even though he had no neuro symptoms whatsoever) and turned out that was it. Treated him and within two weeks of starting the treatment he was back to his “usual” self. Perhaps worth checking for yours too at this point?
Thank you! We’ve done full lameness/hind end work up/ ultrasounds/ rads etc to rule out these issues. PSSM was also a thought of mine and that’s a good idea to try and follow the diet and see if it helps!
So crazy. I’ve thought EPM since the very beginning with her and all her odd issues!
I agree that Lyme, EPM and her vitamin e status are all interesting things to explore.
Given her failure to thrive, it may also be worth taking a very hard look at her gut. Could she have something like IBD or leaky gut that’s causing her to not absorb nutrition…? Or a severe load of worms? Damage to the gut from a previous severe load?
An aggressive course of Tylenol may also be worth a try. It’s a nice option to see if treating for pain helps, since it doesn’t hammer the gut like the NSAIDs. If it helps, it at least tells you that her behavior is tied to something that’s causing her pain in some way.
What a puzzle, best of luck!
Can you post pictures of her?
I would test for pssm type 1. Type 2 does not have a verified test other then a muscle biopsy. How is her canter? Can she canter without bucking or swapping leads? Can she maintain the canter ?
It’s very unusual to have a haflinger without muscle in her hind end.
That’s really strange for a Halfie. I think you are correct and there is something quite wrong with her. If she’s a danger to herself and others and cannot hold weight and is not happy it’s fine to retire her now with an eye to euthanasia when she declines. You don’t have to do everything and it’s not worth getting hurt.
Right? I’m such a fan of haffies because they’re so hardy, easy to train, and willing. This one is the opposite of all of those things! I’m going to give it a bit more time and try to figure it out, but definitely keep those things in mind.
No advice, but I’m sorry you’re having this problem and hope that you’ll find an answer.
So good to rule out EPM/Lyme and then you saying the above about her hind end this tells me here’s your answer otherwise. Something is up in the hind end and probably causing terrible pain.
Can you put up video of her moving - walk and trot?
We had a Selle Francais mare at my barn several years ago, bred by the owner, who owned both parents. She was bone thin no matter what she was fed. Quantity was equal to 3 horses. Was vetted up the wazoo with no found issues. However, unlike your mare, she either had no energy or was super spooky. You never knew who’d show up for the ride. One day she colicked and when in the hospital, some very specific test found her liver to be failing. She was euthanized per recommendation of the vet, age 6 yr. There’s just so much that can go undetected, but I agree that something physical is amiss. Haffies are air ferns!
She does look poorly, this must be so frustrating.
Hi,
I treated my horse with ulcergard, full tube, this fall. Three weeks in to treatment I had her scoped. All that was found was irritation in pyloric area. We weaned ulcergard while adding sucralfate for a month At end of sucralfate, symptoms returned. We did another month of sucralfate. Ended 3 1/2 weeks ago. So far so good. Being that i did not scope before starting ulcergard, I dont know for sure what we started with. Vet said to me symptoms dont always corelate with amount of ulcers/irritation.
I have been on my own long saga with my horse, purchased 1 1/2 years ago. One of my first breakthroughs with her was when I started selenium supplementation after discovering she was very selenium deficient. Is that a possibility with your horse. My girl was low Vit E also.
Good Luck
Please consider not working her while figuring this out.
Can you you go into more detail that she would almost collapse if you touched her? And can you post pics of her hind end. Can we get pics of her hind end shot from the back. Is her muscling even?
Can can we get pics of her feet? Do you know how to take good pics? I do see stiffness in the hind end in that first video and the very last couple strides on that video she takes a couple very stiff steps.
See her cross firing too.
What have your vets said?
Will be so interesting to see your E results too.
Bless you for trying to so hard to figure her out. I’ve been on journeys with just about every horse I’ve owned and usually figured it out and had lots of fun with them but not in every case. And my mustang was big ole 1000 piece puzzle and boy did I find things . Including PSSM2. But he’s come a long way and I hope that for you too. She is VERY cute and you can tell she wants to please you.
MANY horses present with “non-neuro” symptoms initially with EPM, spooky being a common one. But IDK why we consider anxiety and spookiness as “non-neuro.” Anxiety is, in fact, caused by the brain. I guess your vet meant no physical neuro symptoms, such as uneven muscle atrophy, abnormal gait, stumbling, etc.
Over the years I’ve heard people who believe that an EPM horse displays physical symptoms before mental ones, and if they were displaying mental symptoms they’re “too far gone” or something, but personally, I’ve found it to be quite the opposite. My mare, my friend’s gelding, and a couple other horse’s I’ve known over the years presented with spookiness or explosiveness without any physical symptoms.
With the collapse of the hindquarters upon being touched, I’d also investigate reproductive organ issues and pelvic injury.
The neck is probably good to rule out, arthritis or ecvm
Good advice here, agree EPM and Lyme are worth looking into. Big jingles your way.
Sorry you are going through this!
Echo’ing what others have already said but I just want to ask if you have had her allergy tested? If she has that much trouble keeping weight on, I would look closely to see if she is allergic to anything you are feeding her.
As a reference, I had trouble keeping weight on my mare a couple years ago when she started having some heaves episodes, and I was feeding her the same thing you were (Purina Amplify and flax omega 3). Later on, I finally did allergy testing and she is allergic to most of the ingredients in Amplify along with being allergic to flax. No wonder she never gained any weight when I was stuffing her full of it!! I changed her diet and supplements and I haven’t had a problem with her weight since. She’s not an easy keeper, but she is also now NOT a hard keeper!
So that’s just my little suggestion, on her weight struggle.
As far as her reactivity and anxiety, obviously you’ve got some health issues to continue ruling out as others have mentioned above, but if you get to the point where you’ve ruled it all out, well, the last piece is that it is behavioral. Yes, there are some horses out there that can “flip that switch” to freaking out very easily, and you’ve got nothing when they are in that state of mind. There’s no manual to tell you how to do this, but you have to somehow figure out what works for her to “bring her back”. Just as she has the “switch” to freak out, you have to TRAIN in a “switch” to bring her back to you. Does that make sense? You won’t always be able to stop or prevent her from freaking out but if you can get her back quickly, then you can move along.
Now this is coming from the western world but I’ve taken a few clinics from Phil Haugen (he does have a free podcast on his website too) and he builds in a bunch of exercises with his basic fundatmentals for any horse, with that thought process in mind. He does a one-rein stop (which is different in how most people think of a one rein stop) and gets it to become so automatic for the horse by doing it thousands of times, that that now can be a “switch” to bring the horse back THINKING instead of freaking out. Even if they are panicking, if you start to go through those motions that are so automatic, it’s going to be a knee jerk reaction to your horse to recognize what you are cueing them to do, so then all of a sudden they’ve now switched their attention from what they are freaking out about, back to you. To do that automatic one rein stop you’ve instilled into them by doing it thousands of times.
So something like that.
In your brief videos, I know that you said training has been really slow because of her tendency to flip out, but at the same time, I (for example) would like to see her softer. As you ride around, she’s got her nose out in the air. She’s not soft and responsive to you at all. That just makes things tougher when you have a really, really reactive type horse, because if they already are not soft, you’ll really have nothing when they go to taking off.
I don’t expect her to plod along like a reining horse but it wouldn’t be out of the question for her to at least have an EAR on you and be paying attention. She’s looking elsewhere instead.
