I attended a TOBA buyers’ seminar at Saratoga years ago. And I lived close by, and there much of the meet, so wasn’t a big effort to attend (although it POURED that day!) Had already bought into my guy, but looking at more with a friend also interested. Agree it was light fare. Many questions about horse owning, including partnerships. We attempted to ask some direct questions about partnership finances, some legal issues, and oops(!) - it was obvious they did not wish to go there, nor were the speakers there equipped to comment on more serious subjects. More of a marketing, fun get together, while you’re also visiting during the race season. And to draw some people into buying.
I think I learned more attending Keeneland the 2nd and 3rd weeks one year. Went as an assistant to a friend for note taking and navigating. Talk about significant yearling immersion. And was interesting to see where the ones you picked went the next year or two.
They only have a few videos up at this point, but there are several of the Medaglia fillies as mentioned above. Which do you like best? Which do you think will sell best and why? Blood horse has 204 as one to watch but why her more than 143 or the La Verdad?
I’ve never really understood how The Bloodhorse makes their “ones to watch” choices. They leave out many super pedigrees and often miss the horses that sell for the most money. Perhaps someone here knows how they choose their list. Perhaps by which consignors are willing to be interviewed?
I can never tell which horses will be the top sellers.( Except for the very obvious super pedigree and even then some of those are RNA).
I really think you have to be there, be very knowledgeable about pedigrees and breeders and consignors, see the yearlings move and see the vet reports. In other words, be there and be an expert with much inside knowledge.
Sometimes it is a surprise to most everyone that a horse sells for a very high price. It always depends on how much two different bidders fancy the same horse. I remember the Pi$$ing match between Magnier and Mohammad over the Green Monkey.
Nice that those two seem to be letting bygones be bygones.
Another thing I have learned from people here that are experts, is that the reserve on any particular horse in the sale is usually well known in advance by most of the buyers at the sale.
I think it is interesting that in Australia, if the horse doesn’t make it’s reserve, it is said so at the end of bidding. Quite a difference from all of the maneuvering that happens in the U.S.
I’m very much looking forward to the sale. There are only a few that I have marked as favorites that have been withdrawn so far. It’s always disappointing to have horses that I really want to see become an out at the last minute.
I do not profess to know anything about racing outside of big ticket stuff, and even less about young/possibly future racehorses, but after seeing this post:
Petty easy with a small select sale like Saratoga. Ask the sale company who they expect to top the sale. After all the horses are on the ground. Every horse is inspected by a representative of the company. During my apprenticeship I had the very good fortune to go around with Dr Doug Koch a NY breeder and vet. he taught me a lot, great guy. We inspect each one and give it a grade. The company execs and the head Auctioneers get together go over the grades,notes and pedigrees. Each horse’s sales page has an estimate value on it. The auctioneers use this when the horse enters the ring and the bidding gets underway. It’s a target number and they are rarely wrong. They also compare it to the reserve, realistic, undervalued, or hallucinating These 2 numbers by and large dictate the effort made from the stand.
A BH representative will go around and ask agents and get a consensus… Esp at Keeneland September.
Another thing to do to get an idea of the market, what is going on pre-sale. Check the the sale company’s website for “outs” before the horses hit the grounds. The “outs” before they horses get there means, possible vet issues came up, the horses didn’t meet expectations come sale time. Keep that number. Then check the “outs” the day of the sale. The horses that make this list is rarely due to “vet issues”. Maybe a “flue issue”. But generally it means the market/buyers didn’t show enough interest in the horse/s to warrant taking the risk of being an RNA. Paying a large buyback commission, “marked” as a buyback which may or may not have an effect on it value at a future sale. In any case it’s rarely worth putting the horse through the ring when there is a lack of interest at the barns. ESP at a small select sale. Book 1-2 at Keeneland Sept.
I can’t remember where I read the terms for withdrawing a horse from the sale, but I remember reading (perhaps it was Keeneland not Fasig Tipton?) that an “out” was not allowed other than for veterinary reasons once the horse was on the grounds, which begs the question; how long before the sale are the Saratoga yearlings required to be on the grounds?
I’ve wondered how the required veterinary “out” report actually is scrutinized by the auction house, once the horse is on the grounds It is easy to imagine a yearling getting a runny nose, or being silly and kicking in the stall ,among a myriad of other issues that could cause scrapes, lumps, bumps or swelling, any of which would be a good reason for not presenting them for sale especially at the higher end such as Saratoga. I’m sure even a minor issue could be problematic to getting the best price.
I am surprised, but not shocked, to think that once the animal is on the grounds consignors might get away withdrawing a yearling due to lack of buyer interest.
I am very much looking forward to the sale tomorrow.
It’ll be interesting to see how much people value Empire Maker’s get. These are the first Saratoga yearlings since he’s been back. He has 3 colts and 2 fillies. One filly is out.
Thank you! Is this typically for vet/med reasons? Or can the owner elect to private sale the horse and withdraw before XYZ date without penalty from the auction?
Sometimes it’s vet reasons, sometimes the yearling just doesn’t mature the way you hope it will (the entries for this sale were taken months ago), sometimes a horse gets injured, or an owner changes his mind about selling.
You can withdraw the horse at any point before the sale (or during if a vet will give you an excuse). You lose your entry fee, plus the costs of sales prep, xrays, and other miscellaneous sales items. I’m not sure about the FT rules, but at Keeneland if you withdraw a horse (without a vet cert) after the horse is on the grounds, they will charge the seller a commission on the average price of the horses sold that day.
There are only a few that I have marked as favorites that have been withdrawn so far. It’s always disappointing to have horses that I really want to see become an out at the last minute.
