While researching something else, I discovered that there were (at least) 3 Fappiano sons who were sires of eventers competing (or slated to compete) at WEG:
Legal Pressure sired Mark Todd’s Grass Valley.
Eighty Eight Keys sired Selena O’Hanlon’s Colombo.
And of course there is the Comet Shine son Courageous Comet, ridden by Becky Douglas.
I am pondering a Cryptoclearance mare. I have always steered clear of Mr. Prospector lines, but now I am wondering if the Fappiano might be an asset.
It’s hard to resist Fappiano, in spite of Mr. P. 
I am generally not a Mr. P fan but Fappaino is one of his better sons
Huge Fappaino fan here as well.
You have to be very careful with Fappiano, who is one of Mr. Ps best sons. He needs a very good mare with good bone and a strong dam line. You do not want to put Fappiano with Northern Dancer. Cryptoclearance was a lovely horse who has very recently been discussed on the Eventing Forum. He had over 40 starts in his racing career and some of his have recently been successful chasers. In his tail female line, you find Alablue, a daughter of Blue Larkspur.
Mr P can produce very talented event horses. Poilu has Miswaki as tail male grandsire, and he came 4th at either Burghley or Badminton this year or last year. I think what’s needed with Mr. P are very strong lines through the mare and no Northern Dancer or ND very far back. Turf bred or European mares help a lot. I also think that he benefits from additional lines to Padua’s descendants–Blue Larkspur or Relic seem to help. Poilu’s sire, Fearless Action has Busanda and Bleebok, for instance.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=H6cnuy&d=Poilu&x=43&y=14
Eighty Eight Keys has Relic in the damsire line.
Fappiano
Fappiano was the USEF leading event horse stallion from 2002 to 2006. We spent over 2 years looking for a TB stallion with Fappiano and Alydar lines with excellent conformation and good movement which is how much we like Fappiano. We were fortunate last year to find a 7 year old stallion bred by John Nerud who is by AP Jet who is by Fappiano and whose damsire is Alydar. He raced 46 starts and retired sound. He is scopey, has a gorgeous gallop, a lovely trot, and I was trail riding him within a week of him coming here from the track. He is a sweetheart. He is also a guaranteed carrier of the large heart gene. Can’t wait to breed him this year…
Viney I know you are considered to be the COTH guru on all things TB, but sometimes I wonder about your blanket statements that condemn masses of unseen horses on the basis of pedigree alone.
The Fappiano/Northern Dancer cross is a very successful one in TBs bred to race, resulting in horses that are both athletic and sound. This is one example of what that cross can produce: http://pinoakstud.com/stallions/bvow-conformation.shtml
[QUOTE=classen_eventer;5283545]
Fappiano was the USEF leading event horse stallion from 2002 to 2006. We spent over 2 years looking for a TB stallion with Fappiano and Alydar lines with excellent conformation and good movement which is how much we like Fappiano. We were fortunate last year to find a 7 year old stallion bred by John Nerud who is by AP Jet who is by Fappiano and whose damsire is Alydar. He raced 46 starts and retired sound. He is scopey, has a gorgeous gallop, a lovely trot, and I was trail riding him within a week of him coming here from the track. He is a sweetheart. He is also a guaranteed carrier of the large heart gene. Can’t wait to breed him this year…[/QUOTE]
no pics on his webpage?
http://www.witsendeventing.com/Breeding/WingMan.html
The mare I’m pondering is this one:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fiji+times+express
Second dam by Hawaii, only one ND (5th gen) and numerous lines to Blue Larkspur.
Owed locally by a young rider who is training her for eventing.
There is a Fappiano bred stallion standing locally who may be of interest to some.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/Randelle/realFappi-1.jpg
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/real+fappi
He is ridden by a relatively green adult rider, which attests to his phenomenal disposition. I believe he events, as well.
I’ve had a few Fappiano bred horses and I’ve loved loved loved them. They’ve all been big, impressive athletes with good movement, great jumps, and unbeatable temperaments.
[QUOTE=mandylt;5283913]
I’ve had a few Fappiano bred horses and I’ve loved loved loved them. They’ve all been big, impressive athletes with good movement, great jumps, and unbeatable temperaments.[/QUOTE]
Ditto - I had one that I retired and I have one now and both are exactly what you stated above.
Here are both pedigrees:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/matchrun - One I have now - hoping he wants to be a jumper
http://www.pedigreequery.com/saratoga+lake - retired to a young girl that likes to just trail ride…
Holy cow, that grey Matchrun gelding is like my (bay) mare in an alternate dimension!!
pictures
Yes, we need to get pics and video of Wingman on the website. We are working on updating the website. Things have been a bit crazy… Again, I concur about Fappiano, and this guy has a great disposition when he packs an out of shape adult around on the trail…
:eek: Almost all of the Fappianos mentioned here have the known racing Fappiano/In Reality nick!
Article regarding this nick here:
http://www.werkhorse.com/success_stories/the_real_quiet_story.shtml
Quite some time ago, I asked on this forum if anyone thought this nick would hold true for non-racing sport as well, but didn’t get much response at that time. I am so glad to see this, as I have since done this cross (though it ends up being pretty far back), and have a big, beautiful, built-like-a-brick-house, filly. The pedigree is here, and has the Relic (through Olden Times) that Viney speaks of in the above post:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/selahway+sacra+via
Filly pics:
http://www.selahwaysporthorses.com/foals_of_2010.html
That’s not entirely by accident. Fapp stood most of his career in FL under the guidance of Nerud (he only stood in KY for 3 years before his death). Guess which other horse was the a result of the Nerud genius? Oh yeah, that would be My Dear Girl’s most famous son. 
But that was back when farms stood stallions and maintained broodmare bands that were “designed” to compliment each other (and were perhaps a bit more targeted towards long term returns on the track as opposed to the short term goals at the sales).
[QUOTE=LaurieB;5283628]
Viney I know you are considered to be the COTH guru on all things TB, but sometimes I wonder about your blanket statements that condemn masses of unseen horses on the basis of pedigree alone.
The Fappiano/Northern Dancer cross is a very successful one in TBs bred to race, resulting in horses that are both athletic and sound. This is one example of what that cross can produce: http://pinoakstud.com/stallions/bvow-conformation.shtml[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with the cross if someone else is breeding them. A good horse on the ground is a good horse on the ground no matter what the pedigree. Without a doubt, there are many, many Northern Dancer/Mr. P horses who can do sport as well as racing, and probably many of them could breed for sport as well. But the cross hasn’t yet PRODUCED for UL sport in the numbers that the massive quantity of TBs with this breeding would suggest it should. I just happen to think that if one is breeding for performance into a horse’s teenaged years and without the “luxury” of 2 and 3 year old testing under extreme conditions which racing does provide, the risk is too high to be sound for a sport horse breeder.
Besides, the known flaw in Mr. P is wonky legs; the known flaw in Northern Dancer is tendons and a very muscular body. Given that Northern Dancer’s damsire is Native Dancer, who is Mr. P’s sire, and that Native Dancer also retired with tendon troubles, the possible outcomes from that cross are heavy body on light legs–disportionately so–, and tendon troubles from wonky legs. Frank Mitchell has done a blog post on the change in the North American TB after Native Dancer which can be read here:
http://fmitchell07.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/native-dancer-was-the-way-of-the-future/
Mr. Mitchell describes Northern Dancer as a mini-Native Dancer; heavy topped, he calls them.
John Sparkman has also written articles on the changes in TB racing longevity in North America since the advent of the Native/Northern Dancer tsunami. You can read his articles which are linked on his website here:
http://pedigreecurmudgeon.blogspot.com/
These guys recognize that the modern North American TB has changed, thanks to Native Dancer and his get. The increased propensity for straight hind legs and downhill conformation in the modern NA TB, which are GOOD for speed, especially sprinter speed, is not good for sport horses.
Northern Dancer is a large part of the reason that German WB breeders are no longer looking to the UK/Ire/France almost exclusively for the type of TB that they want to use as improvement sires. I’ve read a statement from one of the Verband leaders that they don’t like the type of TB that is being produced there these days and are looking to places like Czechoslovakia and Hungary for the “old style” TB.
[QUOTE=DMK;5284231]
That’s not entirely by accident. Fapp stood most of his career in FL under the guidance of Nerud (he only stood in KY for 3 years before his death). Guess which other horse was the a result of the Nerud genius? Oh yeah, that would be My Dear Girl’s most famous son.
But that was back when farms stood stallions and maintained broodmare bands that were “designed” to compliment each other (and were perhaps a bit more targeted towards long term returns on the track as opposed to the short term goals at the sales).[/QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing out the breeder, John Nerud. I did not know about him. Definitely was trying to turn US TB breeding back in a direction other than strictly sprint. Non-racing sport surely has benefitted from his efforts…interesting article about him here, on the left of the page:
http://www.werkhorse.com/pdf/__www.thoroughbredtimes....ay-newsletter_rydwp110210.pdf
I’d like to add that Fappiano also sired Weshaam, who sired several upper level eventers. Weshaam has some incredible bone and legs of iron. I have a Weshaam son (I am bringing him along as a hunter) who is often mistaken for a WB, until I show off his tattoo. Great temperament, can jump the moon. I am knocking on wood as I write this, but this horse has never taken a funny step. Great feet too.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/wes+river
I’ve worked with a few Cryptoclearance mares, and have enjoyed them.
Well, he gave us a sprinter or two (to be fair, he gave us a lot of great sprinters), but he was a true genius in creating a broodmare band, and I think those bands were dispersed much later than some of the other notable ones (Calumet, etc.). There are more than a few people that made FL breeding a force to be reckoned with, but I guess my favorites will always be Nerud and Heubeck. So many great horses from Tartan Farms…
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