And those prices are why we are going to the last two sessions. 
Hopefully we can pick something up in our price range.
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Good luck! Youâll have to let us know what you get. 
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The partnership agreements I have written up and or read for clients. Have a partnership termination date which can usually be changed by majority vote of partners. The liquidation of âassetsâ is handled in two ways. By auction or by getting 3 appraisals adding together and dividing by 3 to come up with a fair market private sale number.
By auction is almost always the way partnership horses are sold. Partners are allowed to bid for their own account.
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Mandy Pope is once again a prominent buyer of top broodmare prospects, as well as purchasing Stopchargingmariaâs weanling for $1.9 millionâŠ
I have to wonder if she gets âbid upâ by the auction house or others. People know how much sheâs willing to spend; whatâs the likelihood sheâs countering bids that arenât actually live money and are simply meant to inflate the price? Donât get me wrong - the horses she buys are high profile and are going to sell for top dollar anyway, so Iâm sure sheâs competing against people like Coolmore, the Yoshidas and the Maktoums.
In the end it really doesnât matter. People that know what they are doing know what the horse if worth to them, the market in general. If they want to stick around long they will stick to their guns. Let a horse go when the bidding goes above what they want to give for it.
If it is an RNA go back to the barn and try to buy it at the price one feels comfortable giving. Even if the horse is listed as sold on the results sheet. I always go back to the consignor and make sure it actually did sell.
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Neil Armstrong once bought a horse at Keeneland - all the way from the moon!
In my (admittedly naive and ignorant) opinion, I think that CC is a freak and spending $600k on a 1/2 brother is wasting your money unless you REALLY like POTN
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The problem with RNAâs is that you have no idea when the live money stopped and the auctioneer was just running the price up to the reserve. For all we know, the last live bidder could have dropped out at $2m (or $3m or $4m). The only thing that $7.5m means is that the mare would have sold for that amount.
We are looking for a weanling colt, because heaven forbid that ours should grow up with out a buddy. And, a mare that we used to own/race, that we were quite fond of, in spite of all her quirkiness, is in the sale, in foal. She needs to come back to Canada with me.
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I agree, but someone is usually willing to take a chance. Did you see the colt in question? He was far from the best in conformation, many other weaners were better looking and better bred.
CCâs weanlings, (admittedly there were only a few in the first books) were OK but didnât strike me as exceptional and he doesnât seem to be stamping them. Of course that is absolutely no predictor of their future racing success.
Weâll see. CCâs weaners did not sell for the large amounts that many first crop siresâ get have done. Perhaps people are holding on to sell them as yearlings. It will be interesting to see what they look like then.
Love the Chase seemed a good enough looking mare, but wow. not a sweetheart! Of course, in the racing sales, that seems not to be a concern.
In 2016 she sold for $1.95M in foal to Tapit. The Tapit colt sold for $1.1M. Her 2018 foal by P.O.N brought $600K yesterday but she was RNA at $1.3M in foal to Uncle Mo.
It seems to me that there is not a lot of confidence in the likelihood of lighting striking twice. After repeated breeding to Lucky Pulpit sheâs produced CC and thatâs been it. At least now sheâs been put to quality stallions and given the best chance.
Good luck! Please let us know how it goes. :yes:
Has Mandy raced any horses yet that have done well? Or has there not been enough time for this to happen? I donât remember hearing about any horses she has raced but I could have missed it or not realized that a racehorse was owned by her. Does she sell most of what she breeds?
My gosh there are some beautiful mares going through the ring. Hip #837 was gorgeous. In foal to Cairo Prince. I bet her foal will be a looker.
ETA She sold for 52K. What a bargain, in my opinion! :lol:
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On face value I agree. Her G1 winning half sister sold in foal to Pioneer of Nile for $1,5 million at this sale last year.
The mare was claimed out of her last race last year for $20,000. Having broken her maiden in the race before at the same level. Took 18 starts to get it done. So itâs safe to say she wasnât much of a racehorse.
She was an $20,000 RNA yearling by Summer Bird who stood for $15,000 before being sold to Japan. She was out of his 3rd crop. So I am guessing she had some sort of issues.
She was raced by her breeder. Who bred and sold her 2012 half sister for $115,000.
So her breeder still owned her when that foal/sister became a Grade 1 winner and G1 placed of over $500,000.
For what ever reason they let her get claimed for $20,000
On face value she was claimed to breed and sell. Pretty obvious play. I would bet they were feeling real good when the half sister sold for big money 2 months after claiming her.
They bred her to Cairo Prince whoâs yearlings were well received. So much so his stud fee was upped to $25,000 from $15,000 just off his yearling average. His first foals are 2 year olds. 1 G3 winner and 1 G3 placed horse. To date he is 3rd ranked freshman sire.
2018 his 64 yearlings averaged $80,000 2017 86 yearlings averaged $97,500
His 2017 covering sire average was $44,000 (med $40,000) 20 offered 18 sold on a $15,000 stud fee
I am guessing given the fact her breeder who has been around for a while let her go for $20,000. $20,000 RNA She had conformation issues
I am guessing given the fact she has Summer Squall and Nureyev in the 3rd position top and bottom, Northern Dancer, 5th & 4th position. Good chance she was on the small side of things? It can and does happen with ND line horses. But not as a rule.
âSmall doesnât sellâ. Is the mantra these days. No mater how sexy the page is. But that doesnât mean she canât wonât have proper size foals. If she has conformation issues that doesnât mean they will be passed on. IME more times than not they arenât. But the market is VERY selective these days. More so then ever. Certain buyers are willing to take a chance at a price. But that price has to be pretty low. The consignor is a good friend of mine. Might have to ask him where the âholesâ were/are.
Buying/claiming fillies/mares to breed and sell is an all or nothing play in this market. One has to be VERY careful on their selections. I passed on some very attractive âpaperâ because the horses had âholesâ I and partners werenât comfortable taking a chance on.
Having recently sold my farm I am not in a position to pay the expenses to carry a mare/s for the âlong playâ That being taking the chance of breeding, foaling, bred back to sell. Hope we get a good foal, a sales worthy weanling to put in the sale with the mare. So potential buyers who may have reservations with the mare can see that she throws a good foal. Take a chance and position the foal to sell before the mare.
Thatâs the long of it on face value.
The short.
The mare has an excellent, ideal cover date. Which is a BIG plus.
The cover sire is/was liked well enough. But his 2017 cover sire average is nothing special. IMO his stud fee hike wasnât justified. But he did still cover 148 mares in 2018, 149 at $15,000 in 2017 and 148 in 2016
The half sister sold for $1.5 million in 2017.
So IMO and experience all things suggest the mare had âissuesâ. Nice pedigree but not a âsexyâ pedigree. Still should have made around $100,000± on face value. Or people were asleep at the wheel
Might prove to be a good long play. The buyer knows what he is doing.
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gumtree, thanks again for such a detailed answer on the thought process of why the mare might have hammered at lower price than what she appeared may have been expected on paper.
Must have nerves of steel to be in the bloodstock business trying to decide what to buy and who to breed to based on what market youâre targeting. :encouragement:
IMO this was an excellent breed and sell play.
Great pedigree, coveted pedigree She was a Darley bred/cull that was bought at Tattersalls Dec for $43,000. Shipped to the states. Bred to a first year stallion on a $25,000 stud fee who stands at Clairborne (139 mares bred) Great cover date.
Sold for $240,000. Nothing but ânetâ as they say. She was bought and sold by a friend.
As a mare buyer there are some âholesâ I would have to take a closer look at.
Thanks
IMO and experience you extrapolate all of the information, digest. But in the end based on years of experience it does in a lot of ways come done to âgut feelingâ. Like a any business one has to be fairly well capitalized. So they arenât forced into making decisions, plays, gambles restrained by cash flow.
It is also good to stick to your business plan. Buy in numbers and sell for what they bring. Win some, lose some with the hopes at the end of the day you have made a profit and or broke even.
Pretty much always go for the bird in the hand. Just about every time I have gone for the 2 in the bush. Both have bitten me and flown off.
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Good thing I donât do this for a living Hip 1123 just went through the ring, bay colt with 3 high whites and nice white on the face⊠Iâd have been good right there 
Yes, would agree that having the $$ makes a huge difference so one can afford to buy or not based on both research as well as, as you said, gut feel and gut feel sure doesnât happen over night. Your replies help me see all the different things someone should take into consideration when buying or not through even a high end auction.
As much as I can believe in buying the horse in front of you, in racing, you still never know if that weanling or stallion or mare will live up to all the expectations.
TVG right now is broadcasting the sales live⊠love listening to the auctioneer and how he works the ring
Thanks for the insight Gumtree. I was watching the sale online so didnât see the mare walk or have a good close look at her legs. What I could see of her was lovely, nice neck and shoulder, good hindquarters, good expression, legs looked good but you really canât tell online.She didnât strike me as a tall mare but neither did she seem small. Again, difficult to tell when watching online.
Of course being a looker means little if the breeding isnât right, and she didnât have black type⊠When I say âshe seems like a bargain to meâ you must take in to account that although I am a decent judge of conformation, I am only a TB breeding and racing enthusiast, with no experience whatsoever in choosing stallions for race mares or choosing mares to breed for racing. I tend to look at them from a sport horse perspective.
My experience has been working for private breeders of high quality sport and show horses, albeit eons ago. Iâve no experience with big (or small) time breeders of racing TBs, and planning matings was way above my pay grade.
I enjoy watching the sales and looking at the stallion pages and I appreciate your and LaurieBâs kindness in taking the time to discuss the racing and especially the breeding aspect of TB racehorses with us.
Iâve always wanted to ask questions about a particular stallion that, from his conformation, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to breed a mare to, yet he is a successful sire and some of his get are fairly well built, but of course those are the good looking ones that end up in the sales. Many of his get are good race horses. I would never take the risk that he would reproduce himself physically if I were in the business. Heâs somebodyâs pride and joy Iâm sure, so I feel I canât ask on a public forum. I sure would like to know what they are thinking though.
On the other hand, there are so many beautiful TB stallions and mares being bred in the racing world, itâs a pleasure to see.
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The stallion JAPAN is selling through the ring today. By MedagliaDâOro he was last standing at Waldorf in NY (went to stud in 2016). His dam was by Capote and out of a mare by Lyphard. Also selling today is Seattle Serenade
Other stallions set to sell on Friday are Exhi (Canada) who is by Marias Mon and out of a Polish Numbers mare.
Gauntlet will also be selling from Crestwood farm. He was at stud privately in 2015. Never had much of a race career. Sired by Pulpit and out of Air France. Half brother to Overdriven and Smooth Air
Make Music for Me is also selling. He was standing in Hemet, CA (Is he part of the Hemet TB auction clan???)
