I shudder to think how much I’ve spent over the years for this. Leif’s is getting worse with age - what used to work doesn’t anymore.
Being off previcox and the increased psyllium didn’t help. I had to put him on Biosponge as well a couple of days ago and now some of the manure is formed.
I am not adding up numbers!
Biosponge was my next stop until I realized the PPGI contained it. To rationalize a little bit, the main ingredient is flax which I was buying separately. The price on that really went up this year, so while I don’t think Im saving switching the the PPGI, I don’t think its significantly more on a monthly basis than it would have been buying the flax and pre/probitiocs separately.
@JB - I was listening to the Feed Room Chemist podcast this morning by Dr Jyme Nichols on Equine Microbiome. Well timed! She mentioned POSTbiotics being just as important. It sounds like supplements containing fermentation products are already providing the benefits of postbiotics so I think I am covered there but have never heard them called out so specifically. Kind of cool!
Yes! Post-biotics are a new investigating that is proving to be fascinating and very valuable!
Following this thread because my mare has developed a fecal water issue in the last month. We are doing 2 weeks of psyllium (Sand Clear), sending out a fecal, and considering Assure Guard Gold. Does that sound about right?
keep in mind that AGG is just AG, with added psyllium. What I don’t know is the amount of psyllium in a dose
What have you done regarding changing the forage? Sometimes that’s the key. What other things have you tried?
Hi @JB! Thanks for the reply!
Unfortunately, I board and can’t really play around with forage much (without it costing me a fortune). We wanted to do allergy testing (intradermal, not blood) for her asthma/EIPH/hives, but supply chain issues prevented that - vet doesn’t have enough of the allergens. So, absent knowing what she might be sensitive to, it would be darts at a wall adjusting her forage. I would buy alternative forage if I knew what she was sensitive to.
Nothing has changed in the hay of late. Same forage. Same supplier. Same batch… maybe mixed with a new batch.
She seems to be the only one reacting to something. Previously with her asthma/hives, other horses with sensitivities would also cough, so I had some indicator that it might be the hay. She’s isn’t coughing now and hasn’t had hives this year, and she the only one having ANY reaction whatsoever (nobody else has fecal water, diarrhea, hives or coughing)… so unless it is an allergy specific to her, not sure whether it is forage related. Her hay is soaked, not rinsed, if that makes a difference.
My mare previously had loose stools that resolved well on GUT for two years - more like regular diarrhea/cow patties. In the last month or so, now she has (usually) well-formed fecal balls with excess fecal water or (more occasionally) cow patties. Always, though, with excess fecal water. Her bedding is SOAKED under her poops and it splashes in the crossties. She also developed basically diaper rash as a result (since resolved with desitin). Oh! And she NEVER poops on the arena - I can count on my fingers the times she has in 2.5 years - but now it is a daily occurrence. Yesterday, she pooped in crossties, then in arena, then twice in the wash rack. Four times in about 2 hours.
I don’t want to go on a fishing expedition, nor do I want to pay a million dollars for supplements, but I also want to fix this.
Dang 
I don’t think I’ve heard of an increase in pooping, as (just) a typical symptom of FFWS. Leaky Gut issues?
Updating on Horsetech’s CP12121, now known as WaterWerks. We started friend’s and my horses on July 16. Both horses are getting better. Before, my horse had reasonably well-formed manure, and intermittent water. His manure smelled bad, and the water was stink-to-high-heaven bad. Friend’s gelding was comparable.
Now, his manure is generally well-formed. It smells more like manure than toxic waste. I assume this is butyric acid kicking in. His butt is still messy, but not as messy. And he doesn’t stink as bad. I think there’s less fecal water, and what comes seems to be part of diarrhea.
We’re still scrubbing every day, but it’s been less than two weeks since we started. We’re hopeful. I’ll report back next week.
I also have been using WaterWerks. I started on SandTrap because Rod hadn’t created WaterWerks. Although intended for sand colic, it gave me a pretty good start. My gelding’s butt had been saturated, down through the crack and down his legs. I used the 1/2 cup scoop that came in SandTrap so it was a small serving. Barn staff was adding it to his supplements (all from HorseTech, of course) so I gave them a big cup from Walmart. They could mix it with plenty of water and then add to the grain. It cleaned him up. When WaterWerks came out i switched over. He would get an occasional squirt but it was usuallly dry so I could curry it. He got in the habit of moving his legs apart so I could clean better. He started doing that all the time.
The sad thing is that I had to put him down last week. His knee was deteriorating and it was time to say goodbye. He got a random squirt on occasion, but it wasn’t much. His manure was wet but well-formed. My plan was to do the 1/2 cup scoop to maintain a clean back end. It worked.
I am so sorry for your loss. I started down the WaterWerks path on your suggestion. I’m grateful to you.
I dumped the big bag into a pail, and suspect I buried the measuring cup. I found a gram scale, calculated the tare weight of a big plastic cup, and marked the proper dose on it.
The barn vet said she’s seeing a lot of horses with this issue for the first time this year. Unlike other parts of the country, we haven’t had excessive heat until just this week. I’m wondering if the issue is fall-out from the terrible forest fires/poor air quality we’ve had, getting into the soil.
I always give that for the runs and a dose of electrolytes. It also helps with mild ulcers as it becomes a gel coating in the stomach. I also give every day Diamond V Yeast. Don’t care if a supplement says it has " yeast" in it, its usually not enough for a large horse. This has helped my horse a lot and no more gas. My horses top line is better with some Alfalfa daily, but I found that if that is combined with clover in the pasture he gets digestive upset and a weird swelling under his belly that some have said is nitrogen overload… So I am digging up all the clover in his pasture. I board, so that’s the best I can do in the pasture.
Hugs
When I first called Rod at HorseTech I ordered SandTrap. That was all he had. He started getting calls from more horse owners. He found several people at his booth at a few expos. That gave him a small group to try it. It is still psyllium but it has added yeasts, bacteria, and butyric acid.
One thing I read online is that ingredients are the focus, not how they are fed. Also, stress and changes in diet can cause attacks. I used to call it juicy hay. Fecal water often shows up when they start a new load of hay but it lasts for a few days, not months.
this is an important ingredient to help support healthy intestinal lining, and is incorporated into several higher quality feeds as part of their hind gut support package
My QH gelding has had FWS going on two years. Our high summer days tend to be high 90’s/low 100’s with lower humidity, usually cools to low 60s past midnight to 9 am. We have tried BioSponge (makes him reject his beet pulp mash) and psyllium, several types of pre and probiotics, Gonna try the Waterwerks next.
Also signed up for the Penn State session! Great thread!
For anyone interested, Feed Room Chemist just did an episode on the flax and allergy testing results. Great listen. I also reached out to her about doing one on FFWS and she said she will record one! So stay tuned there too.
I dont see WaterWerks on the Horse Tech website?
WaterWerks is coming to the website soon, I’m told. For now, you’ll have to call to order.
BTW, we’ve finished 3 weeks. My gelding is SO much better. Not quite perfect, but very close. My friend’s gelding is better than last week, but still not quite there.
I’m calling on Monday to order more. We’re going to stick with this and see where it leads.
I am on day 3 of a 14 day course of Sand Clear. Yesterday, mare at most/all of her hay stretcher and beet pulp but ate around the Sand Clear, and left 1/4-1/2 of the dose in her bucket. Tried hand feeding the remainder, which was about a handful or two of the “good stuff” and then the remaining offensive psyllium pellets. She spat the masticated handful out. Today, she was off the hay stretcher and beet pulp entirely, even when I added apple chunks. She usually hoovers it down, no question.
Any tips or tricks? I have seen adding honey or molasses, and putting Vick’s in her nose. Worth a shot? Or should I just get Orange Metamucil?
I am also supposed to be starting Assure Guard Gold. Is it palatable? It is crazy expensive and she is picky, so I am nervous to purchase… but I do want this fecal water and diarrhea behind us…
Thanks in advance!
I have heard Assure Guard Gold is amazing. I haven’t tried it yet because it’s so experience but I’m curious to learn your results!
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