Feed for the “easy keeper” dressage horse?

[TropicalStorm]

Need some feeding advice if possible. I have a 10 year old dressage horse who is schooling PSG and is worked 5x a week. He’s an easy keeper. He lives outside 24/7 and gets hay 3x a day. He’s a bit on the pudgy side (ok, so am I ) so I don’t want to add any more weight, but we do need a bit more energy especially as the work gets harder and I want to give him the best chance at getting the nutrition that he needs - he’s not a hot horse so I’m not too worried about making him that exciteable. He gets his hay and then 1/2 scoop of beet pulp, 1 scoop complete feed and a vitamin E supplement to help with his shivers.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated
I live in Canada, so some of the great feeds aren’t available…thanks in advance!

[Supakwe]

I don’t have a very specific answer for you but I hated doing the feed search when all the recommendations I found were not easily accessible to me (also Canada), so I will add my input.

I previously had my guy on Brooks but it became difficult to get after I moved. I am lazy and didn’t want to add an hour round trip to get feed every so often.

Anyway, what I found to be the most helpful in my search was figuring out which brands were easily available and then reaching out to the reps and asking a million questions. I was happy with the communication I had with Masterfeeds and Brooks. Masterfeeds also has a comparison chart on their website if someone else here recommends a stateside feed that interests you. It’s definitely not exact as of course it isn’t the same feed, but it’s at least a starting point.

[Scribbler]

Really good hay and a ration balancer, or a vitamin mineral supplement in a beet pulp mash? I’m also in Canada and have no access to a good RB or anything but our two local mills feed.

I like Support One by Pureform, or Amino Trace by Mad Barn. Both VMS and Canadian companies. Mad Barn ships for free.

The thing about “energy” is that the body makes no distinction between calories for energy and calories for pudge, animal or human. However correct nutrition, enough protein, correct vitamin mineral levels, and increased fitness will give more stamina eventually.

Your description of your feed is very vague. What kind of hay? Do you get it tested? How much does he get? What’s “a scoop” of feed? What complete feed? I doubt from what you report that you have your bases covered on basic vitamins and minerals, or on protein.

When you say he is pudgy what do you mean? Could we get a photo? That can mean anything from an obese Henneke 8/10 on the edge of founder to a rather undernourished horse with a hay belly from crap hay.

Depending on what hay you have, I’d suggest upgrading to a good Timothy plus alfalfa. Also, the biggest positive change I made for my easy keeper sometimes lethargic mare was to give her more days off. I know they are “supposed” to be able to go 6 days in, one day off. She is just much more fun 4 days on, one day off.

It’s also complicated in your case by the shivers. It’s not a disease I have really read up on, but it is somewhat progressive. Many times lack of energy means a horse is feeling a bit of discomfort somewhere.

[Feathered_Feet]

@Scribbler

The thing about “energy” is that the body makes no distinction between calories for energy and calories for pudge, animal or human. However correct nutrition, enough protein, correct vitamin mineral levels, and increased fitness will give more stamina eventually.

I’ll agree with this, and the suggestion of an amino acid supplement to help with all the muscle building upper level dressage horses do.

There are people on here that are far more knowledgeable about feed than me, so I will defer to them, but I will share a more lateral idea. A previous horse of mine was always a bit on the quiet side, which became particularly noticeable as the work got harder. I just thought I had a lazy horse with a slow-ish hind leg. Eventually we got his hocks injected and lo and behold, the horse suddenly had the “fuel” he needed to be a bit hotter and quicker. He had never been off or lame, but he was getting older (maybe 11 at the time?) and there was nothing obviously wrong with him, but a simple flexion test showed that time was catching up to him. Joint injections (with simultaneous systemic polyglycan) made all the difference.

[TropicalStorm]

Some good ideas, thank you. The feed scoop is the standard 32oz one. The hay hasn’t been tested lately but we aren’t that high in alfalfa-his hay gets forked to him from a roundbale so not exactly the most exact measuring science - I’m realizing that I’ve been pretty lackadaisical about feed over the years…
Here’s a photo from last year (similar body now, just a bit more muscular) and a riding photo from last month to show his body condition

[eightpondfarm]

He’s handsome! I feed alfalfa hay to all my pastured horses. The amount of alfalfa i feed depends on the weather. Because it’s relatively warm (avg high 40s) so far this winter i feed 50lbs/8 horses. They have beaucoup energy…enough to routinely do chasing games all over their 123 acres.

[JB]

@TropicalStorm

He gets his hay and then 1/2 scoop of beet pulp, 1 scoop complete feed and a vitamin E supplement to help with his shivers.

The answer is to at least move down to a ration balancer. Purina Equilizer is one. I know there are a few others in CN but brands are escaping me

If he really needs more of a reduction, the Mad Barn Omneity or Amino Trace, mixed with 1-2c (dry measure) beet pulp shreds, might work well enough.

[Scribbler]

Thanks for the photos! Did you know that the Henneke score actually doesn’t take belly sag into account, but looks at fat accumulation on the tail head and withers and crest?

In the standing photo I see a horse with atrophy in his hind quarters top line and not much muscling in the back. In the more recent riding photos I can’t really tell because under motion, muscling looks different.

I would say he needs nutrition and protein. And better hay. There is no inherent reason why roundbale hay has to be lower quality than other hay. But in my particular market it is more likely to be “local grass hay” that’s often high sugar low protein and high indigestible fiber compared to good second cut Timothy. Roundbales are however much much cheaper than the same hay baled, and obviously a good less labor intensive choice for field horses.

However I would be hesitant to feed a performance horse solely off a round bale unless I knew it was truly top hay.

He looks like a horse getting hay belly on poor hay that isn’t giving him nutrients for muscle building.

I don’t know how much of the atrophy is from the shivers which is a degenerative muscle disease to some extent.

I wonder if there are chat sites for shivers and if there is any evidence about increased need for various nutrients besides Vitamin E?

[TropicalStorm]

I really appreciate the assessment, thank you. It’s been an ongoing battle to get hind end strength, compounded by the shivers - its getting there slowly, and I’ve seen a change since that photo was taken, but it’s so so slow. I don’t think anything in his current nutrition is “helping” him much - I have been online with some forums with shivers and nothing really conclusive except vitamin E and potentially selenium and to stay away from foods with high sugar content

Someone suggested putting him on a senior food which I was debating, with a higher protein content, and I had thought about an amino acid as well… something to at least give him a little help and hopefully the right vitamins so that his feed isn’t hindering him at the very least

Sadly my nutrition knowledge is pretty limited but the Google and I are making friends lol.

[suzyq]

My easy keeper does well on good quality grass hay and 1.5 lbs ration balancer. Next up when the work gets harder will be replacing some of the grass hay with alfalfa. I would not feed mine beet pulp or senior feed as neither has enough vitamins or amino acids for him in the small amounts that he can eat. Unless I was using those as a carrier for mad barn or some other vitamin/amino acid suplement.

[TropicalStorm]

Maybe I should just start with a supplement rather than looking to change his feed completely just yet and see if some of the issues are that he’s deficient in supplements/vitamins? (He did have a blood test pulled by the vet last year and was not found to be overly low in anything)
I looked and I can get the MadBarn supplements at Greenhawk… both the amino trace one (less vit E than I’d love but has lysine in it) and the regular mineral supplement one… so that would be an option that I could perhaps explore…

Sorry for all the questions - I really appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions and it’s giving me stuff to research to better understand what might help us

[JB]

@TropicalStorm

Maybe I should just start with a supplement rather than looking to change his feed completely just yet and see if some of the issues are that he’s deficient in supplements/vitamins?

But you’re feeding too little of a fortified feed, which does mean you’re (likely) short-changing his nutritional intake. Moving to a ration balancer will resolve a lot of that, and be cheaper than adding a supplement. You also said he’s on the pudgy side, so reducing calories a bit is a good idea.

Simplify. Don’t complicate

Blood work isn’t going to show you anything of consequence, nutrition-wise, beyond Vit E, selenium, and if you really wanted to, copper. You’re not going to see a dietary protein or amino acid deficiency.

[Equibrit]

This may be of interest; https://ker.com/equinews/shivers-horses-newest-facts-and-findings/

[TropicalStorm]

Ok - that makes sense.and definitely worth a try first. Any recommendation on a good ration balancer that I can see if I can get? I know I can get Tribute and Masterfeeds; guess I’ll take a look if they have any ration balances…

[Pehsness]

I’ll third or fourth the Mad Barn Omneity. Great company with great customer service as well. They’re local to me.

I feed soaked timothy cubes with the omneity (and other supplements de jour) and the horses bloom on it. The owner of Mad Barn also seems very receptive to providing advice and answering questions. I “discovered” them a couple of years ago and am so glad I did.

[Scribbler]

Canada tends not to have the variety of ration balancers you can get in the US. My first pick would be Mad Barn in a small beet pulp or hay cube mash and add extra Vitamin E if needed ( but don’t double up on the selenium). The Amino Trace is very palatable.

[asterix]

Just going to agree w everyone - my guy is super easy keeper, out 24x7 in a huge field, worked 6 days a week, 3rd level and jumping 3’ plus consistently - and he does great on about 1.5 lbs of ration balancer plus forage/decent hay.

[blob99]

I don’t know what’s available or not in Canada. But, my easy keeper gets some grain but because it’s no where close to the manufacturer’s recommended amount, she’s not actually getting what the label says. So, I have her on a supplement that is basically a vitamin designed for horses not getting much or any grain. It’s not quite a RB because she only gets a very small amount of it.

[demidq]

Not sure where you are in Canada, but Brooks has a very good nutritionist available by phone. Brooks makes a pelleted ration balancer- Enhancer. Purina also has one, Equaliser.

[J-Lu]

Agree. Ration balancer. My horse is out in his personal pasture 24/7. At least, in his particular pasture there is less cool weather grasses and his pasture is almost all brown now with some growth that he finds and munches on. My vet is A-OK with this and recommends no hypernutritional hay. He needed to gain lots of weight as a 4-6 year old but now she says “Don’t let him get any fatter!!”. He can easily get fat as an 11 year old on the spring and summer grasses. All horses on this farm get the same advice from the three vets that visit.

My horse used to get bucketloads of grain, but now just gets ration balancer and local hay to keep the weight off.

He also does dressage.