Feeding DMSO as a supplement to neurologic horses?

[Helicon]

Has any one added DMSO to their horse’s feed as a supplement? How much and for how long?

Yes I will talk to my vet, but I am curious if any other vets/horsemen have noticed if it helps.

I have a slightly neurologic horse who improves when fed compounded EPM medicine which contains DMSO. This horse has tested negative 100% by two different labs for EPM. So I think the improvement we are seeing is from the DMSO, not the toltrazuril. I think the horse is a mild wobbler and the DMSO must help with swelling. I am wondering if I can supplement with straight DMSO on a bad day.

[Peggy]

No, but I found this old thread that describes jugging DMSO with neuro and EPM horses and notes that the meds are dissolved in DMSO as opposed to water to increase absorption.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/55290-epm-marquis-and-dmso

I wonder how nasty DMSO is to ingest. I used in as a lab solvent in a procedure that involved pulling glass tubes out of a hot DMSO solution (deuterated DMSO, no less!) and used to get a nasty DMSO taste in my mouth just from contact exposure to the DMSO vapors. This was a long time ago, when people didn’t wear gloves in lab. Or lab coats much of the time. Sometimes not even safety glasses. And ate their lunch in the lab.

[ryansgirl]

My old TB spent four days in the hospital for neurological conditions - was fine one morning but by nighttime was a mess. Due to his age (31) and with winter coming we opted not to do anything extensive on him. I worked at the hospital at the time so knew all the vets/surgeons extremely well and understood my decision. My old guy was textbook EPM though not confirmed by any test. We did do neck X-rays to see if that was the cause but that just showed just old age arthritis.

We treated him with DMSO but via IV over the course of the four days. He showed some minor improvement but it clearly was the beginning of the end. We put him down nine days later as his neuro condition progressed rapidly - he was still bright-eyed, happy, wanted to graze, etc. but his body just wouldn’t work anymore.

I’ve never heard of actually feeding DMSO. We always did it IV at the hospital.

[Angela_Freda]

Yes I knew a horse who was on IV [or Nasal gastric tube?] DMSO
Holy stink!

I would think the amount you would need, combined with it’s smell would make feeding it hard to do.
You’re probably right the improvement you are seeing is from an anti-inflammatory action… maybe there’s another way to test that theory and if it proves correct, get that result?

[mvp]

@Peggy

No, but I found this old thread that describes jugging DMSO with neuro and EPM horses and notes that the meds are dissolved in DMSO as opposed to water to increase absorption.

I’m not sure that absorption through the gut wall is what DMSO is promoting. Rather, DMSO is one of the few chemicals that crosses the “blood-brain barrier” and therefore it is used to do things like take NSAIDs with it into the horse’s spinal column or brain. I have seen it used for horses who got in bad, concussion-inducing wrecks.

So you might need to ask if it’s the DMSO that is intended to help (and it has been used for a long time to combat inflammation, everywhere, without a complete understanding of the physiology involved), or whether it’s merely the carrying agent for another drug used to treat the neurological condition.

[Peggy]

@mvp

I’m not sure that absorption through the gut wall is what DMSO is promoting. Rather, DMSO is one of the few chemicals that crosses the “blood-brain barrier” and therefore it is used to do things like take NSAIDs with it into the horse’s spinal column or brain. I have seen it used for horses who got in bad, concussion-inducing wrecks.

So you might need to ask if it’s the DMSO that is intended to help (and it has been used for a long time to combat inflammation, everywhere, without a complete understanding of the physiology involved), or whether it’s merely the carrying agent for another drug used to treat the neurological condition.

I was using absorption loosely, as a chemist might when venturing out of her field, to encompass GI + blood-brain barrier + anything else.

I’ve never gotten a great explanation on how it might actually work, though I’ve had the conversation with several vets. Maybe it somehow scavenges an oxygen atom involved in an inflammatory response, thereby getting converted to MSM? Which then makes you wonder how MSM works.

[joiedevie99]

I’ve used it IV and by NG tube for neurological horses, but never tried to feed it. Certainly worth a discussion with your vet.

[snowrider]

I’ve had or seen vets use it IV and NG for snake bites and head injuries in dogs and horses. It worked very well in every case, to an amazing degree on a lab with a skull fracture and one horse with a very snake bite with neuro effects. Stinks like you wouldn’t believe though.

[JB]

Interesting, I’ve never heard of oral DMSO. IV (jugging), absolutely. The idea is for it to “pull” inflammation out of the body.

In doing a little research on this, I don’t think the intent is to get them to eat it. “Oral” use of DMSO is ideally via tubing.

I can’t begin to imagine what straight DMSO would taste like, and can’t remotely figure out how you’d get a horse to eat it after that first bite. So no, I would not count on that at all. He’s only eating it now because of how it’s compounded.

That said, apparently at least some have done it
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…dmso-long-term

Internally, part of DMSO is converted to MSM in the body, but MSM isn’t just crystallized DMSO.

[Texarkana]

Semantics: “Jugging” is generally via NG tube, not IV. Although it seems the term now gets used for either. But it originated from literally pouring a big jug of something down an NG tube.

I imagine feeding it orally might even be painful, as it tends to react exothermically when it comes in contact with water, and I imagine saliva might produce a similar result. Unless you diluted it down first and let it cool.

[JB]

Regional differences? I’ve only heard it referred to with IV, as in the jugular vein. I can see the jug of DMSO reference though.

[Texarkana]

@JB

Regional differences? I’ve only heard it referred to with IV, as in the jugular vein. I can see the jug of DMSO reference though.

It’s not regional, it’s an old racing term. Far older than using DMSO itself.

I think the line became blurry because people do say things like, “I gave him 10cc of XXX in the jug.”

But the verb “jugging” pertaining to giving a horse a large volume of something at once came from pouring it down an NG tube. People just use it for whatever now, though. Even in racing most of the “jugs” people talk about now are IV.

[findeight]

Never heard of using it as a daily feed supplement. How the he*l woukd you get them to eat it or deal with that cloying, sicky sweet smell and the weird tastes some humans experience from inhaling it in your barn every single day?

[JB]

@Texarkana

It’s not regional, it’s an old racing term. Far older than using DMSO itself.

I think the line became blurry because people do say things like, “I gave him 10cc of XXX in the jug.”

But the verb “jugging” pertaining to giving a horse a large volume of something at once came from pouring it down an NG tube. People just use it for whatever now, though. Even in racing most of the “jugs” people talk about now are IV.

Gotcha, thanks. .

[Ghazzu]

Can’t put my hands on the reference right now, but I recall some years back that oral DMSO was looked at in a comparison with IV in neonatal foals with oxygen deprivation, and it was concluded that nasogastric administration achieved sufficient levels.
I’d be a little surprised if a horse were willing to consume a significant amount of the stuff.
Also, be aware that DMSO + water is a pretty exothermic reaction, so I’d dilute before trying to dose it orally.

[csaper58]

@Helicon

Has any one added DMSO to their horse’s feed as a supplement? How much and for how long?

Yes I will talk to my vet, but I am curious if any other vets/horsemen have noticed if it helps.

I have a slightly neurologic horse who improves when fed compounded EPM medicine which contains DMSO. This horse has tested negative 100% by two different labs for EPM. So I think the improvement we are seeing is from the DMSO, not the toltrazuril. I think the horse is a mild wobbler and the DMSO must help with swelling. I am wondering if I can supplement with straight DMSO on a bad day.

Under no circumstances give the over-the-counter DMSO as a feed supplement. It is not pure and it is an industrial solvent.

Check with the vet re: medical grade DMSO.

[Simkie]

I recall a trainer at the track adding dmso to the horse’s water for … some reason. It may have been an all over body sore horse. That may be one avenue to try?

[Peggy]

@JB

Interesting, I’ve never heard of oral DMSO. IV (jugging), absolutely. The idea is for it to “pull” inflammation out of the body.

In doing a little research on this, I don’t think the intent is to get them to eat it. “Oral” use of DMSO is ideally via tubing.

I can’t begin to imagine what straight DMSO would taste like, and can’t remotely figure out how you’d get a horse to eat it after that first bite. So no, I would not count on that at all. He’s only eating it now because of how it’s compounded.

That said, apparently at least some have done it
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…dmso-long-term

Internally, part of DMSO is converted to MSM in the body, but MSM isn’t just crystallized DMSO.

MSM is DMSO plus an oxygen. MSM is a solid at room temperature and DMSO is a liquid at most normal room temperatures (freezes at about 19°C which was occasionally a problem in the lab)

And add me to the list of people who can’t imagine eating (drinking?) DMSO.

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(why does it say you can upload PNG files when it won’t let you–above is a JPG)

[Beethoven]

@Peggy

MSM is DMSO plus an oxygen. MSM is a solid at room temperature and DMSO is a liquid at most normal room temperatures (freezes at about 19°C which was occasionally a problem in the lab)

And add me to the list of people who can’t imagine eating (drinking?) DMSO.

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(why does it say you can upload PNG files when it won’t let you–above is a JPG)

Interesting so when you mix DMSO with H2O can/does it pull the O and create MSM?

It’s been to long since I took OChem…

We NG tube DMSO frequently as its far easier than placing a catheter and giving IV.

[Peggy]

@Beethoven

Interesting so when you mix DMSO with H2O can/does it pull the O and create MSM?

It’s been to long since I took OChem…

We NG tube DMSO frequently as its far easier than placing a catheter and giving IV.

Highly unlikely I suspect. The oxygen is in the middle of the water molecule so not too accessible in a simple reaction. It would be an oxidation-reduction reaction since the sulfur is being oxidized in going from DMSO to MSM, meaning that something (oxygen being a far likelier candidate than hydrogen) would need to get reduced. The oxidation state of oxygen is the same in water, DMSO, and MSM so no reduction there.

So the mixing of DMSO and water is a simple physical process that happens to be exothermic.

My guess would be that DMSO reacts with oxygen radicals or a related species in a chemical process to make MSM. IIRC, oxygen-derived radicals like superoxide and hydroxyl radical are involved in inflammation. Assuming that’s the case, the DMSO might scavenge said radicals, removing them from the system and resulting in less inflammation. But I’m not biochemist.