Fencing - Am I wrong?

[AQHA4me]

We purchased a piece of horse property in the last year. The entire perimeter is fenced with 3 board fence, with the boards to the inside of the posts and batten boards. The neighbors asked if they could add wire to keep their dog in. We said yes, but they needed to sandwich the wire between the posts and the rails. ie - they would need to pull all of the boards, put the wire up and then put the boards back up. The section of fence in question is the property line between the arena/sacrifice lot and their backyard.

The fencing company wants to put the wire on the inside of the rails. Which means the wood rails would be sandwiched between the wire and the posts. So replacing a broken rail would be a pain. The fencing company offered to “warranty” my rails and replace them as needed. Personally I’d prefer not to rely on someone else to repair my fence.

Am I being a crazy demanding lady to say the wire fence needs to be between the posts and my rails?

They also asked about adding the wire to their side of the posts, resulting in a gap between the fence rails and the wire, also not an acceptable solution.

Thoughts?

[js]

Personally I would tell them to put up the fence and their own posts on their property line. What if they put the wire on the outside of the posts on the neighbor’s side and put a piece of wood over the wired on each post to secure it? Technically it’s their fence and should be on their property and they be responsible for it. If you put it on the inside of your pasture, its now your fence and you’ll be responsible for it if yours tear it up. What kind of wire are they considering? Is it something your horses could get a hoof caught in?

[FraggleRock]

I think you are crazy for letting them use your fence at all!

[2DogsFarm]

Who owns the fence?
You mention “their side” of the posts - I never heard of this. The Rule I always heard is that the placement of the posts determines who owns the fence.
Posts on your side of the property line = your fence - posts & all.
If that’s the case, then neighbors can put up wire on their side of the property line & not impact your fencing.
Let them put in T-posts for the wire on their property.
Explain to them how adding wire will compromise your fenceline, which is intended to keep horses in & not dogs out.

[NoSuchPerson]

I completely understand your reluctance to have your neighbors messing with your fence. I would probably tell them that they need to have a separate fence for their dogs and say something like, “I wouldn’t want your dogs to get out if my horses should damage the fence, so it would be much safer to have two separate fences.”

[goodhors]

I would not let anyone mess with my fence, add wire or change stuff around because of their pets or livestock. How happy will you be if horses paw the wooden fence trying to get grass under it and snag the wire? Injuries are VERY possible with mixed wire and wood fences.

Sorry, “What is mine is mine” and I don’t share with the neighbors especially related to the fencing. They need to put up and maintain their own fences, not try to cut cost and latch on to your fence. For sure messing with the posts, boards, will shorten the life of the wood, so you will be fixing or replacing in a shorter time than you would with leaving fence alone.

You can say “After consideration, I can’t let you put wire on my fence. You need to put up your own fence to contain your animals.” Then stick to it even when they whine or cry about it. Do YOU want to be paying for new fencing? I can only see sharing the fence to be a nightmare in the future, after they “invest” in wire and pay to have it put up. No clear ownership or responsibilities on the fence when shared like that.

Really going to be nothing but grief if you let them use your posts or fence in ANY way. It is not about “being nice or neighborly” it is about keeping your stuff clearly “yours” to maintain or prevent damage to your animals. They need to put up their OWN fences to also keep up and own.

[beowulf]

don’t do it –

one, IMHO wire does not belong on a horse fence. It just doesn’t. Way too much can go wrong.

Two, it is a MAJOR PITA to replace. Like - MAJOR.

And guess how they secure wire?

With big honking hoof-seeking, horse-destroying staples. Not nails. Staples. That’s not their only drawback - they’re also a huge PITA to remove - from fence and horse alike.

My horse is at home and due to Irreconcilable Differences with the herd, we had to move him to the “goat pen”, which is standard wood/post with 4x4inch wire lining the outside.

It has been a herculean task making that paddock safe for this horse - and it still isn’t 100%. The part of the wire that end/were cut had to be folded back and sanded down; I walk the perimeter every weekend because somehow, some part of the fence gets propped off. And he is bored and misses his friends, and keeps popping off the top boards - annoying to replace by themselves but then I have to find the staples he propped off, and/or shift the wire around to re-nail the board back up. I would not do a paddock situation like that, if ever.

[judybigredpony]

OMG…write an agreement that they use 2x4 no climb quality wire and let them staple…yes people fence staples the wire to the fence posts on their side and put a board around top on their side also.Write agreement they are responsible for repair replacement and upkeep of the wire , and if and when a post needs replacing it gets split 50/50…What’s the cluster if fence is on posts and a gap…do you seriously think a horse is going to stick a,foot in there…run electric if the horses are that destructive…Better to Keep Dogs Out and good neighbor relations…Have it attached to their deed that if sold the fence becomes your property …or not…But don t get so hung up on Fence staples,which aren t going to jump into your pasture , the chances of your horses getting in the gap or hung up are slim to none…Where as dogs running in fields are a bigger hassle.

[tangledweb]

I’d be OK with wire on their side of the posts. That would seem like a far better compromise than wire trapping your boards. It’s probably not quite as nice looking as wire sandwiched between post and board viewed from outside the property, but I’m not sure why you rule that one out.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;8999237]
OMG…write an agreement that they use 2x4 no climb quality wire and let them staple…yes people fence staples the wire to the fence posts on their side and put a board around top on their side also.Write agreement they are responsible for repair replacement and upkeep of the wire , and if and when a post needs replacing it gets split 50/50…What’s the cluster if fence is on posts and a gap…do you seriously think a horse is going to stick a,foot in there…run electric if the horses are that destructive…Better to Keep Dogs Out and good neighbor relations…Have it attached to their deed that if sold the fence becomes your property …or not…But don t get so hung up on Fence staples,which aren t going to jump into your pasture , the chances of your horses getting in the gap or hung up are slim to none…Where as dogs running in fields are a bigger hassle.[/QUOTE]
Staples pop off all the time; wire is not a good containment tool for horses. All it takes is a horse to lean on the fence, kick a board, etc. When it rains the wood expands and warps and if a horse leans over the fence to get grass, or tries to anyway, they can easily pull the staples out. A staple in wood doesn’t stand a chance against a horse leaning on the fence. Nevermind horses getting stuck in wire; seen it happen many many times. Nice expensive vet bill waiting to happen.

I think the better solution is for the owners to be responsible for their own dang fence - not ask the OP if they can use HER fence for THEIR dogs.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

If you wanted to be nice, just tell them to put up electric tape on their side, at like 1’, 2’, 3’ A few times of being zapped, the dogs won’t go near the fence again.

[betsyk]

Wow, in some parts of the country people prefer, and spend a ton of money, to have wire mesh as well as wood boards on their fences. It took me a minute to figure out that you meant wire mesh and not single strands of wire, like electric, which is also preferred in a lot of places (but not really for dogs). Anyway. It sounds like your lots are smaller, which is how the whole conversation started, but can you suggest that they build their fence a lawnmower’s width away from yours and then offer to mow the space? maybe a compromise would be a better approach if you really don’t want their generous contribution to keeping your horses from sticking their heads through the boards.

[AQHA4me]

A few more details left out. Wood horse fence is on the property line. Fence is very clearly ours as it surrounds the entire property. Boards are on the inside of the posts so the horses can’t push the boards off. The fence was one thing previous owners did the right way. Ohio has very clear laws regarding ownership and ongoing maintenance. We can file an affidavit which will attach to both properties regarding who owns what part of the fence. They want to add 2"x4" welded wire no climb.

I’m trying to figure out a way to allow them to maximize their property usage as well as protect our fencing, dogs and horses. The wire on wood is something we have for our backyard where our dogs are kept.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=AQHA4me;8999376]
A few more details left out. Wood horse fence is on the property line. Fence is very clearly ours as it surrounds the entire property. Boards are on the inside of the posts so the horses can’t push the boards off. The fence was one thing previous owners did the right way. Ohio has very clear laws regarding ownership and ongoing maintenance. We can file an affidavit which will attach to both properties regarding who owns what part of the fence. They want to add 2"x4" welded wire no climb.

I’m trying to figure out a way to allow them to maximize their property usage as well as protect our fencing, dogs and horses. The wire on wood is something we have for our backyard where our dogs are kept.[/QUOTE]

If the fence is exactly on the property line it may not be yours.

Regardless of whether it joins to your fence, matches your fence or who put it up.

It is only clearly your fence if it is completely on your property.

Good (and properly place) fences make for good neighbors.

If the backs of the posts kiss the property line, the neighbors may have the right to attach wire to the posts on their side.

If they do, some thought must be given to weed management under the fence.

Ditto if they put up their own fence. Who mows in between?

I would put a hot wire on your side of the fence whatever happens.

Dogs jump and snap you know.

What if these neighbors move and people with less ‘horse friendly’ dogs move in?

[ejm]

Welded 2x4 wire is fine for dogs but not strong enough for horses - 2x4 wire mesh as judybigredpony suggests is the only way to go for horses.

As far as wire fence and horses, plenty of 7- and 8-figure Kentucky Thoroughbreds are turned out behind wire mesh fences with a top board so they aren’t leaning on the wire.

[trubandloki]

It sounds like a shared fence, even if the person who owned the land before you put the fence up.

What are the laws regarding shared fences in your area?

My thought is that you can not insist they put up their own fence when this fence is actually on the property line. (In reference to all the posts telling you to tell them to do their own fence and leave yours alone.)

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=betsyk;8999267]
Wow, in some parts of the country people prefer, and spend a ton of money, to have wire mesh as well as wood boards on their fences. It took me a minute to figure out that you meant wire mesh and not single strands of wire, like electric, which is also preferred in a lot of places (but not really for dogs). Anyway. It sounds like your lots are smaller, which is how the whole conversation started, but can you suggest that they build their fence a lawnmower’s width away from yours and then offer to mow the space? maybe a compromise would be a better approach if you really don’t want their generous contribution to keeping your horses from sticking their heads through the boards.[/QUOTE]

I think there is a very big difference between the double mesh used at high end horse facilities and the $50 100ft role of 2x4 found at Home Depot that I bet you money the OP’s neighbors are thinking of.

I personally do not like wire and when/if I have my own facility, will not use it. I much prefer boards because in case of emergency, wood always breaks. Wire does not.

I witnessed a horse get stuck a few years ago in a wire fence (it was at a TB/polo breeding facility in SC) and the resulting injury was absolutely catastrophic. It was the top-board/post/wire combination that is really popular in the Southern States. Looks nice too. Anyway, we were there looking at a failed polo-prospect that my friend wanted to ride to see if it had event material. While she was riding the horses in the paddock adjacent to the ring started acting up once she started jumping. One of the horses was galloping and bucking alongside the fence and the next thing we knew he somersaulted with his hind shoe caught in the wire. He panicked and flew back and started taking the wire with him - boards and staples were popping off and it sounded like champagne bottles popping except so much more catastrophic. He tried to spin and run and was traveling with over twenty feet of wire and boards attached to him. He kept tripping over the boards as he went, panicked the other horses in the field (who then escaped into the ring) and galloped recklessly trying to buck off the trail of wire until he fell and crashed. By that time the barn help was there with leads and the wire was cut from his leg. He completely degloved himself from the hind cannon to the pastern… The miracle of the story is that he actually stepped on the board nails but somehow completely missed puncturing any important structures; he did wear a hospital plate for a long time after that. My point being is that when they get stuck, they don’t just take the board with them like they would in a wood-only fence – they take the entire fence until the wire roll runs out.

Anyway, a lot goes wrong in only 20 seconds. So much that I would rather have something break when a horse comes in contact with it over something that doesn’t break at all.

[AQHA4me]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8999450]
I think there is a very big difference between the double mesh used at high end horse facilities and the $50 100ft role of 2x4 found at Home Depot that I bet you money the OP’s neighbors are thinking of.[/QUOTE]

It is for sure not a mesh that will keep horses in, hence my 3 board fence that isn’t going anywhere. The mesh is to keep their dog on their side of the fence.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=AQHA4me;8999460]
It is for sure not a mesh that will keep horses in, hence my 3 board fence that isn’t going anywhere. The mesh is to keep their dog on their side of the fence.[/QUOTE]

which begs the question – why on earth can’t they train or leash their dog?

$15 stake at petsmart. beats $$$$ on fencing and vet bills later on.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8999464]
which begs the question – why on earth can’t they train or leash their dog?

$15 stake at petsmart. beats $$$$ on fencing and vet bills later on.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure how to take this post. Are you trying to be funny?

They are willing to spend money to make a nice place for their dog and you want them to put the dog on a chain?

Are you even allowed to chain at the OP’s location? It is not legal in some locations.