Look at the rankings of the first horse listed #215 and tell me which judge is the ‘outlier’.
My personal experience …. I happen to know some of the judges and I know they make a lot of money giving clinics. As a result they know specific riders. also I know that they accept presents from riders….
knowing this some of the results are not big surprises…. I believe the system is probably ok but experienced judges know their way around it. They play with the scores and use them according to their wishes…. Well they are human and humans work exactly this way. systems are only put in place to give uneducated participants the feeling that everything is fair 
And No I am not saying that I don’t agree with the results…. I haven’t seen one ride and so I agree with all the results.
My post is simply a result from my personal observations over the years…
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Unethical IMO
that’s a pretty big accusation, I hope you can back it up with some facts/proof because I know a few judges myself and will make a point to ask them their thoughts on this. Yes they all do clinics but a lot of these riders have regular trainers who are better teachers/riders than the judges quite frankly.
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Big yikes.
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My background is economics and political science, so spent much of my time in statistical analysis.
I agree a bit with @DownYonder. We can data analyze dressage to death, but since the entirety of the ride is evaluated, not just time and poles down ala jumpers - we are never going to completely eliminate outliers. Artistic sports (figure skating, gymnastics, etc,) have fought this issue for many, many years, some more successfully than others.
I believe the original nerd herd study was based on the theory that “non traditional” breeds were being judged more harshly than the traditional breeds.
We can establish via statistical research whether some judges are lower scoring than others, position dependent scoring, panel size factors, etc… but unless we are going to switch entirely to AI judging, I don’t think it will ever be possible to completely eliminate outlier scoring.
Horses are sentient beings. You cannot just change out a part and get more speed.
At least that is my opinion on it - I’ve long since accepted that I got incredibly lucky that my barnyard find turned out to be a very, very nice dressage horse that got me my bronze and silver medals but was never going to be nationally competitive.
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I thought the Nerd study was initiated because USDF was considering implementing a merit based system for advancing to the next level. As in, rider had to prove mastery of First Level requirements before she could show at Second Level, or something of that sort. “Mastery” would be indicated by a certain number of scores above a certain percentage. I think USDF’s goal was to weed out folks who were showing (say) at FEI but earning scores in the 40’s and low 50’s because the basics were missing.
IIRC, the Nerd study proved a very, very small percentage of that type of stuff happening, so the premise of the USDF proposal didn’t pass the smell test.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
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It would be my opinion that AI judging is actually more prone to creating outliers than human measurement. The AI can only interpret through the lens by which it is trained. When presented with something outside that framework, its only ability to synthesize a response is whatever it decides is most closely related in the data it does have, and that answer is significantly less likely to be correct by definition. Further, it has more likelihood to create outliers within one judge’s responses, whereas right now in this analysis outliers are happening between judges, but the overall trend for each judge is pretty consistent relative to their OWN scores day to day.
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It was a USEF Dressage Committee proposal, not USDF. I believe it had the honors of being the first discipline proposal to be denied by all of the breed divisions. It failed because at the time, in the proposal, the gait score heavily influenced the overall score which then in turned allowed or denied a competitor to advance to the next level. Good in theory; poor in practice.
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I know that Hilda Gurney was mentioned upthread, but didn’t Keen come from the track to her? It’s been awhile…
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She bought Keen in 1969. I’m not sure it’s a useful conversation vis a vis today’s dressage and what it is like to produce a purpose-bred young horse with the power, expression, and temperament currently being bred for upper level horses.
She did produce a lot of young horses. But was long out of competing herself by that point.
With Keen’s record at the International level, I’m going to say that it counts.
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not to belabor the point, but Keen would probably not even make it through to Regionals today, never mind be in contention for an Olympic spot or win 6 national titles. In fact his record really highlights how the sport rapidly changed, going from a gold medal in 1976 to 14th in 1984, when he should have been 8 years stronger.
A better example would be a 76-year-old Hilda winning the GP Freestyle at Regionals in 2019. Not slighting her riding at all - slighting the example when there’s so many better ones.
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She still has a very active breeding program, and regularly competes herself. I don’t think she has national- or international-level aspirations at this point, but she does compete regularly (this year alone, she has competed from second level through GP at rated shows). I don’t get the impression she is planning on slowing down any time soon 
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I seem to remember something about European judges not being paid beyond reimbursement for expenses. The theory being that then they would be less likely to compromise judging standards because judging was not their livelihood.
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In 1984 Keen, born in 1966 was 17 years old. How many 17 year old horses are still competing at Olympic levels today?
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You are probably right that there are better rider/trainers than those judges but at least in Florida it was very popular to clinic with some judges. And I am not sure why it is an accusation? Everything was done very open and it’s probably very legal as well.
you sound a bit naive about the system….
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Keen also competed in the Olympics when he was 19. Clearly, he had to have the scores to make that trip.
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I admit this is only my personal opinion but it is sad how many times I can confirm this.
In every field you can image. For sure it’s not reduced to dressage BTW….
Maybe more than you would think….I remember Painted Black was at least 18 or 19 when he competed at the Worldcup finals in Las Vegas…. Many horses on that level compete until they are 17 or older…
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