[QUOTE=ccoronios;7465777]
What end of the country are you on?[/QUOTE]
East Coast, New Jersey. But my family owns horse barns and land in Kentucky, so I am considering the move.
I agreed to buy mine sight unseen from NC… then had a pang of doubt and drove down to see him 
For an unbacked horse, I am not sure I could tell enough about personality for it to make a difference (in person versus on video).
I don’t know where you’re looking but if my criteria and budget were like yours, I’d have no problem finding it. I’m in South Jersey/SEPA. For one, have you tried Mo Swanson?
The East Coast is expensive - land, property taxes, supplies, services, everything. If you aren’t willing to travel to see horses where horse-keeping costs less, you will pay higher prices. It’s just reality. You should be able to find a weanling with recognizable hunter breeding in the $12k range - but probably not those top stallions you listed. The “in” - fad -bloodlines cost more because they are in demand. If you are willing to take the in-utero risk, you might be able to get one of those.
Call up breeders and see what they have. Rolling Stone Farm lists all of theirs online - lots of dressage horses, but also quite a few that could be hunters.
I just bought my first horse in September, he was about 2 hours away. So a bit of a trip but not really that bad at all. He wasn’t trained yet, although he is 6. (Rescue horse, was neglected) So i totally recommend going to see the baby!!! Even though you can’t ride it yet, I would see how your personality matches. The first time I met my guy I loved his personality. And I visited a second time too. Personality clicked again. I think that you can feel the “connection”, as silly as that sounds. If this is going to be your forever horse, might as well make sure you guys get along!
Good luck in your search, 10,000 sounds like a very lovely budget to me!! :winkgrin:
Is this horse an investment horse to develop and sell on after a few years or will this be your personal riding horse?
Do you have others to ride right now that you wouldn’t mind giving a baby time to grow up?
Do you want to pay board on a baby that you can’t “use” just yet?
Just perusing Warmbloods for sale I found this mare…
http://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=38141&UserID=1084
While she is out of your age range (she is 6), she looks like a lovely prospect who has already been started, and is very close to budget. In fact, I would have her on a trailer to me if I hadn’t just bought one. 
[QUOTE=osgoka01;7466333]
Is this horse an investment horse to develop and sell on after a few years or will this be your personal riding horse?
Do you have others to ride right now that you wouldn’t mind giving a baby time to grow up?
Do you want to pay board on a baby that you can’t “use” just yet?
Just perusing Warmbloods for sale I found this mare…
http://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=38141&UserID=1084
While she is out of your age range (she is 6), she looks like a lovely prospect who has already been started, and is very close to budget. In fact, I would have her on a trailer to me if I hadn’t just bought one. :)[/QUOTE]
I agree, very very nice and reasonably priced horse. And the same seller has some others too…
I really don’t need another horse… I really don’t need another horse.
[QUOTE=osgoka01;7466333]
Is this horse an investment horse to develop and sell on after a few years or will this be your personal riding horse?
Do you have others to ride right now that you wouldn’t mind giving a baby time to grow up?
Do you want to pay board on a baby that you can’t “use” just yet?
Just perusing Warmbloods for sale I found this mare…
http://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=38141&UserID=1084
While she is out of your age range (she is 6), she looks like a lovely prospect who has already been started, and is very close to budget. In fact, I would have her on a trailer to me if I hadn’t just bought one. :)[/QUOTE]
Nice mare!
[QUOTE=osgoka01;7466333]
Just perusing Warmbloods for sale I found this mare…
http://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDetail.asp?HorseID=38141&UserID=1084
While she is out of your age range (she is 6), she looks like a lovely prospect who has already been started, and is very close to budget. In fact, I would have her on a trailer to me if I hadn’t just bought one. :)[/QUOTE]
She’s lovely. I would absolutely be looking at her if I were the OP (or if I were in the market).
OP, I think young horses in your range can hit a peak price before they are broke and have had to prove if they are going to live up to their bloodlines/potential. The amazing moving baby may just jump like a frog (I’ve seen it more than once…enough to make me look more at the canter than the trot. 10 trot often means 6-7 ish jump. 10 canter usually means at least and 8 jump…from my very limited perusing). Once they’ve shown their undersaddle colors, they prices will reflect potential more than bloodlines.
Breeders with the popular stallions as sires are going to charge for that. IMO, you’ll get more bang for your buck looking for the individual rather than the bloodline. Afterall, while hunters can be bred, just as many were bred to be something else and came out as hunters.
Speaking as someone who has bred my mare to one of your top listed sires, I think you’re totally unrealistic about the cost of breeding and raising a young horse. The stud fee alone for the stallion I bred my mare to is $2500. Getting the foal on the ground, including vet fees, probably cost close another $2500,and that excludes any boarding costs. So, a well bred foal has about $5,000 invested in it when it hits the ground. If you were willing to purchase a weakling or maybe yearling, $10,000 MIGHT be a realistic budget. You want one that has been backed or ready to be backed, so you are looking for a long 2 year old or 3 year old. Basically, the breeder has over $10,000 invested in the horse by the time it is that age.
You might get lucky in a distress sale situation, but your expectations and budget aren’t realistic. Either expand your search to include TBs or younger horses, or increase your budget. No breeder is going to sell you a nice hunter prospect for less than what they have invested in it unless it is afire sale situation or there is something wrong with the horse.
Speaking as someone who has bred my mare to one of your top listed sires, I think you’re totally unrealistic about the cost of breeding and raising a young horse. The stud fee alone for the stallion I bred my mare to is $2500. Getting the foal on the ground, including vet fees, probably cost close another $2500,and that excludes any boarding costs. So, a well bred foal has about $5,000 invested in it when it hits the ground. If you were willing to purchase a weakling or maybe yearling, $10,000 MIGHT be a realistic budget. You want one that has been backed or ready to be backed, so you are looking for a long 2 year old or 3 year old. Basically, the breeder has over $10,000 invested in the horse by the time it is that age.
You might get lucky in a distress sale situation, but your expectations and budget aren’t realistic. Either expand your search to include TBs or younger horses, or increase your budget. No breeder is going to sell you a nice hunter prospect for less than what they have invested in it unless it is afire sale situation or there is something wrong with the horse.
[QUOTE=RugBug;7466495]
The amazing moving baby may just jump like a frog (I’ve seen it more than once…enough to make me look more at the canter than the trot. 10 trot often means 6-7 ish jump. 10 canter usually means at least and 8 jump…from my very limited perusing). [/QUOTE]
This is great advice to a first time prospect buyer and I agree 100%. I buy 3-5 year olds and I choose them for their canter. It hasn’t failed me yet.
Stud fee doesn’t have to be $2,500 and it doesn’t have to cost $2,500 to get the foal on the ground. Not saying it DOESN’T sometimes cost that much-- but it doesn’t have to. And therein lies the problem in STARTING with a list of stallions whose stud fees are 1/4 your budget and some of whom may require more effort to get a mare in foal-- you are starting with higher raw costs. And looking in expensive areas doesn’t help either. Think a stallion with more like a $1,000 stud fee and a location where vets/feed/land are cheaper and you’re looking at the “startup costs” being a lot less of a chunk of your budget. I can tell you with certainty it can be done if you’re not looking for the next Rox Dene but just a nice, quality horse good enough for an ammy to show.
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7466530]
Speaking as someone who has bred my mare to one of your top listed sires, I think you’re totally unrealistic about the cost of breeding and raising a young horse. The stud fee alone for the stallion I bred my mare to is $2500. Getting the foal on the ground, including vet fees, probably cost close another $2500,and that excludes any boarding costs. So, a well bred foal has about $5,000 invested in it when it hits the ground. If you were willing to purchase a weakling or maybe yearling, $10,000 MIGHT be a realistic budget. You want one that has been backed or ready to be backed, so you are looking for a long 2 year nold or 3 year old. Basically, the breeder has over $10,000 invested in the horse by the time it is that age.
You might get lucky in a distress sale situation, but your expectations and budget aren’t realistic. Either expand your search to include TBs or younger horses, or increase your budget. No breeder is going to sell you a nice hunter prospect for less than what they have invested in it unless it is afire sale situation or there is something wrong with the horse.[/QUOTE]
Even if stud fee is $1,000, that doesn’t change the fact that your vet fees and cost of feeding the mare for the 18 months from breeding and weaning are going to cost someone. Conservatively, let’s assume it costs $250 per month to feed and care for the brood mare. That’s $4500 for boarding or feeding mare until the foal is a weaning. Add at least $500 minimum for vet fees for Ai and foaling, and you have a minimum of $6,000 into the foal at weaning. This assumes mare takes first time, no foaling complications, etc. Then there is the opportunity cost (mare could be doing something else if not in foal), the risk assumed by the breeder (mare could die, foal could die, foal could be stillborn) that isn’t included in the hard costs.
Basically, the buyer is expecting the breeder to break even at best if she expects to pay $10,000 for a nice well bred WB hunter prospect that is ready to be backed.
I agree with the other posters about not going on pedigree, it can get quite a bit pricier and less options when you go that route. And if I did want a specific stallion’s offspring I would go to those breeders and see if they have anything at their breeding farms because they will often have more than one to look at.
I also have a 6 year old gelding by Westporte that I bred myself and I was into him for $2000 stud fee, $1500 routine vet visits during pregnancy, and $500/month on board for my mare. So it cost me approximately $10,000 just to get him on the ground as a baby. $13,000 by the time he was weaned. He is 6 now and has always been boarded his entire life, and I am keeping him for myself obviously, but now at 6 years old I am into him for $36,000 in board costs alone plus the $10,000 before he got here and that includes no farrier/vet/training costs. Babies are expensive :s
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7466612]
Even if stud fee is $1,000, that doesn’t change the fact that your vet fees and cost of feeding the mare for the 18 months from breeding and weaning are going to cost someone. Conservatively, let’s assume it costs $250 per month to feed and care for the brood mare. That’s $4500 for boarding or feeding mare until the foal is a weaning. Add at least $500 minimum for vet fees for Ai and foaling, and you have a minimum of $6,000 into the foal at weaning. This assumes mare takes first time, no foaling complications, etc. Then there is the opportunity cost (mare could be doing something else if not in foal), the risk assumed by the breeder (mare could die, foal could die, foal could be stillborn) that isn’t included in the hard costs.
Basically, the buyer is expecting the breeder to break even at best if she expects to pay $10,000 for a nice well bred WB hunter prospect that is ready to be backed.[/QUOTE]
There are places where it doesn’t cost $250/month to feed are care for the mare. You think those folks in Ontario with 50 acres and 20 band mare herds are paying $250/month for each mare and vet fees of $500/mare? Look in places where costs are way way lower or where the scale makes things much cheaper. Those costs you mention would be the costs in my area… but who says you have to shop in that type of area? here’s an example…
An operation like that is not investing $10,000 into each and every mare before the foal hits the ground. And they have some excellent bloodlines. They are clearly taking advantage of economies of scale and inexpensive land/feed/vet costs where they’re located. And they’re TRYING to jumper/dressage type horses so a hunter type might be one they’d be more willing to quickly and painlessly sell. A place like that is a good place to look for a bargain.
They have unbroke horses starting under $10,000…
http://www.ewsz.com/EWSZ/prices.asp
OP didn’t say she had to have a 2/3 year old or backed.
Someone who has a few hobby mares/foals and is boarding them in an expensive area is the wrong place for the OP to look. Someone breeding to hot hot and expensive stallions is the wrong place to look. There are no shortage of nice young horses in her budget if she knows how to turn over stones.
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7466612]
Even if stud fee is $1,000, that doesn’t change the fact that your vet fees and cost of feeding the mare for the 18 months from breeding and weaning are going to cost someone. Conservatively, let’s assume it costs $250 per month to feed and care for the brood mare. That’s $4500 for boarding or feeding mare until the foal is a weaning. Add at least $500 minimum for vet fees for Ai and foaling, and you have a minimum of $6,000 into the foal at weaning. This assumes mare takes first time, no foaling complications, etc. Then there is the opportunity cost (mare could be doing something else if not in foal), the risk assumed by the breeder (mare could die, foal could die, foal could be stillborn) that isn’t included in the hard costs.
Basically, the buyer is expecting the breeder to break even at best if she expects to pay $10,000 for a nice well bred WB hunter prospect that is ready to be backed.[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree with your costs…I just wonder if someone who has to board is the best person to be a breeder. It really distorts the cost equation and artificially raises the prices of foals. It doesn’t seem like the wisest business decision to me…if someone is trying to breed as a business.
My young horse was bred by someone who had a large farm in NC and was semi retired. She didn’t breed to make money but more for the pleasure of turning out a few nice foals. She picked nice but not SUPER HOT stallions with reasonable stud fees. I believe due to her quality mares and/or willingness to book multiple mares to the same stallion or for repeat years that she even got a little price break on the stud fee. She mostly turned her mares out and they weren’t very expensive to keep. A little hay, a little grain over the winter but pretty low cost. Assuming no vet problems during the conception/delivery (which I know is unpredictable) she could probably get a foal on the ground for $5,000. Which means she could sell a young horse for under $10,000.
No boarding, no fancy stuff, doing all the work yourself, having enough land in an area with decent grass that carrying costs aren’t too high-- it’s TOTALLY different than breeding a horse you board and/or running a more high end operation. Different strokes for different folks, there’s nothing wrong with doing it either way-- but there’s no REASON you HAVE to look at foals bred in expensive areas when you have a limited budget.
Cuz I love to brag on my boy… This is the horse I got, greenbroke at 3, for under the OP’s budget…
http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vxf111/media/Franklin%20Square/IMG_2450.jpg.html
He’s by Fabuleux who is a realtively popular if not EXTRA trendy dressage stallion. My horse has a good mind, a good trot, and a GREAT canter and jump. His biggest problem is that he’s totally unchallenged/unscoped at 3’0 and below and I’m a weenie with no desire to ever go more. If anything, he’s a lot MORE horse than I need. He’s not the next coming of Rox Dene and he won’t win a hack at Devon but he can go to the As and hold his own and beats even nice horses when it all comes together. He won’t be the WEF winner… but the OP didn’t say she needed that.
I don’t board my horses, the horses live at home. Hay here in Texas costs $7 to $10 a bale, and unless you own a lot of acreage there isn’t sufficient grass to not feed hay. I can’t think of any vet that would do AI, foal out and vaccinate mare for less than $500.
I don’t dispute that it costs less to feed horses if you have the luxury of living in area of the country where land costs are low and pasture land is productive. I have seen some nice weanlings and maybe yearlings at the OP’s budget. Ready to back? A breeder would be most likely loosing money at $10,000 or less.
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7466683]
I don’t board my horses, the horses live at home. Hay here in Texas costs $7 to $10 a bale, and unless you own a lot of acreage there isn’t sufficient grass to not feed hay. I can’t think of any vet that would do AI, foal out and vaccinate mare for less than $500.
I don’t dispute that it costs less to feed horses if you have the luxury of living in area of the country where land costs are low and pasture land is productive. I have seen some nice weanlings and maybe yearlings at the OP’s budget. Ready to back? A breeder would be most likely loosing money at $10,000 or less.[/QUOTE]
Again, I don’t disagree with this…but if a breeder can’t do this, maybe they shouldn’t be breeding at all (unless it’s for fun). There are some youngsters worth $10k, but there are A LOT that are not that still have that price tag…because the owner is trying to not loose too much of their shirt. A breeder’s unstainable business practices that really make their business into what amounts to a hobby are not the market’s fault. If people are buying their stock at a profit for them, that is wonderful: Their business model is working. If they can’t make any money or lose money regularly, well, it’s not working and the need to re-evaluate what they are doing and why. If it’s solely for profit, they need to stop. If it’s because it is their passion, then more power to them, loss or not.
BTW: Hay in CA right now is $12 and up a bale. I am paying upwards of $20 for anything other than alfalfa or oat hay. Damn the mare on timothy hay ($29/bale)! She’s costing me a fortune. And with our current drought, prices will only go up…and we all know they never come all the way back down after the crisis is over. Sigh.
