Fixing a too deep arena

[Obsidian_Fire]

BO recently pulled out all the old footing and brought in new sand. Sounded great until we actually tried to ride in it, and realized it must be a foot deep and it’s very, very fine, like beach sand. BO acknowledges that “some” needs to be removed, that is as far as the conversation has gone to this point.
Since the BO does talk with me, I would like to be able to offer a win-win solution that I can back up with knowledge and hopefully costs. (I need to be able to say more than “remove 3/4 of this!”). I did a bit of googling and from what I can gather, a sand arena should be about 2-3" deep. At that point, I would think adding a fiber product (such as Premiere Equestrian or GGT or something) would be a really good idea - IF I can find one that won’t break the bank.
To add to the problem, they don’t like to work the arena very much - we are lucky to have it dragged once a week. Watering only gets done if one of us boarders does it.

If I can’t talk them into a fiber product, and they choose to stay with only sand, should it really only be 2-3" deep? To me that seems like it would get very hard, very fast. I’m thinking more like 6" - in fact I wonder if it should be that deep anyway and then add fiber to it?

Arena is 60x144.

[Libby2563]

Wow, is it literally a foot deep? That’s scary. Sadly I don’t think there’s a great solution other than removing a lot of it. It can be stockpiled for future use. 6" is still too much IMO. I would take it down to 4" to start and see how that is before adding anything else.

Is it at least the right type of sand?

[Snowdenfarm]

I boarded at a barn with too deep sand footing. All sorts of too expensive solutions were suggested, but they were able to get a more than acceptable density and give by daily watering with autosprinklers. There are different kinds of sand, so yours could turn to soup or concrete. In their case it was just right.

[Obsidian_Fire]

Yes, it really is a foot deep. 12 dump truck loads.

I honestly couldn’t tell you if it is or is not the “right” sand. It is very fine, nearly beach sand. Even soaking it with water does not compact it enough to be safely rideable. I have done a bit of walking in there, a touch of trot on the lunge (carefully) but canter is a no-go.

[MsM]

Yikes! I am wondering if it is salvageable at all! I boarded for a short time at a barn with an outdoor ring with beach sand as a footing. It wasnt terribly deep but it was totally unstable and slippery. They didnt want to do anything and I left shortly afterward.
I wonder if you could pull most out down to half the preferred depth, then add angulated sand or something else binding to help stabilize. Just guessing tho…

[Bluey]

@Obsidian_Fire

Yes, it really is a foot deep. 12 dump truck loads.

I honestly couldn’t tell you if it is or is not the “right” sand. It is very fine, nearly beach sand. Even soaking it with water does not compact it enough to be safely rideable. I have done a bit of walking in there, a touch of trot on the lunge (carefully) but canter is a no-go.

What size arena?

We used 7 belly dump trucks on a 120’ x 250’ covered arena, triple washed very fine sand.
You would not want to use that sand outdoors, it would blow and wash away.
We put down 3" to 3 1/2", which is perfect for most anyone wants to do there, western or English disciplines.

We have yet during several years and many horses to have one come up sore or lame and they are performing very well in competitions, the good footing while training part of that, we think.

Here is a picture dragged a few hours after watering it, just perfect and one days later as it is getting too dry, is starting to be dusty and a little too fast, good for competition, but not for training.
Those little bumps are clumps of sand, more when wet, few as it dries and gets used.
There is nothing else there, no rocks, little or big or any other material than pure sand:

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Bluey the arena is 60x144. You have lovely sand. Ours here is gray, usually broken quartz-type and basalt rock.

[Bluey]

@Obsidian_Fire

@Bluey the arena is 60x144. You have lovely sand. Ours here is gray, usually broken quartz-type and basalt rock.

Our sand is standard local river sand from gravel yards, screened for size and washed for fines.
Is standard material here for many indoor arenas, private or commercial ones.

12 truck loads of standard gravel trucks would be a mountain of sand.

You could pay someone with a big loader for a couple hours to get there, take at least half out and pile it for other or later use?

After you use that, see if it is ok, or more needs to come out, or be added to?

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Bluey that would be ideal for now. Just put it aside for later use.
I’m really concerned as fine as it is it will break down into dust very quickly.

[Libby2563]

@Obsidian_Fire

@Bluey that would be ideal for now. Just put it aside for later use.
I’m really concerned as fine as it is it will break down into dust very quickly.

I think with footing so dangerously deep your immediate concern should be soft tissue injury. I don’t think I’d even walk or trot in that. Best of luck, I hope your BO sees reason!

Oh also, since you mentioned GGT or other fiber… I think that is considered fairly high-maintenance footing? (When a barn I used to board at switched their indoor from sand and rubber to sand and GGT, I recall the maintenance needs increasing.) Maybe someone else can speak to that but it might not be the best match for a BO who doesn’t want to drag or water often.

[Guyot]

If they don’t want to pull anything out add fiber. Truflex is a cheaper fiber alternative and can be added for under 3k in arena that size.

They will need to install themselves or pay for that and the new arena rake.

But they will probably have lovely footing that doesn’t need a lot of raking but just a sprinkle of water daily unless they add mag chloride. (I have high traffic in my indoor and rake about once a week now with my fiber footing)

Perfect world is 3-6” of sand, depending on type, and an inch or so of fiber mixed.

If they just want to have sand they need to pull out down to 2 1/2” of sand and trust me with soft sand it will still feel deep to most. And this will require watering and daily raking.

As a farm owner/trainer I look at footing as an investment so I have no issue spending these costs. However, if your farm owner is just boarding then there is no return for this investment, without raising board. If that is the case perhaps you and the other boarders can agree to help to get it done in some fashion.

A community that works together all feel invested in the outcome. Best of luck.

[fordtraktor]

I have sand and fiber footing. If the moisture content isn’t maintained consistently, it won’t work. IF mine gets a little dry the fiber “floats” to the surface.

If you are willing to invest the $$$, I’ve been able to keep mine nice with LOTS of mag flakes, so I don’t have to water constantly. I do have to address it 3-4 times a year and add more.

My footing was too deep at first, meaning like 4 inches. I took the extra out and store it, adding it back when needed over time. I’d much rather have too hard than too deep but that isn’t a problem, it isn’t hard at all. But with sand, if you don’t keep it moist, you’ll also punch down to the base so be careful about that.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Guyot they already raised board rates over a year ago to pay for this new footing. And, I’m not sure how us boarders would help any more than we already do. We do the watering. We are not allowed to drag. It’s not like we have oodles of wheelbarrows and shovels laying around that we could take it out ourselves.
BO did remove one dump truck load last night. I’m not holding my breath.

And, we are a ‘work together’ community. We are fortunate to have a lovely group of boarders who all get along, help each other, talk, some of us are friends even outside of the barn, and we are always committed to helping our BO as much as we can. But none of us can fix this ourselves, and we aren’t made of money to throw at it either.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Libby2563

I think with footing so dangerously deep your immediate concern should be soft tissue injury. I don’t think I’d even walk or trot in that. Best of luck, I hope your BO sees reason!

Yep. We already have one horse rehabbing from a soft tissue injury, and another who (was) using our arena for daily walks. Not anymore.
This is the number one concern of all of us who ride.

Given the replies I’ve gotten I can see that this is going to be an ongoing mess no matter how much they take out. Unless we can convince them to let one of us boarders do the dragging, and somehow figure out a more time-effective answer to watering…the rail riders will be down to the base in no time…
I wish I could just sit down with both of them and have a detailed and specific conversation about how to fix this and how to keep it from being an ongoing problem. I’m pretty good at just keeping to facts and leaving hyperbole and whining out of it, and I’m not wishy-washy about what is “okay or not”.

[Kyrabee]

@Obsidian_Fire

honestly couldn’t tell you if it is or is not the “right” sand. It is very fine, nearly beach sand. Even soaking it with water does not compact it enough to be safely rideable. I have done a bit of walking in there, a touch of trot on the lunge (carefully) but canter is a no-go.

All I can say is good luck. We finally whined my B.O. into replacing the 25yo footing in our indoor. She asked me what the footing was like at a different barn. I said, oh, it is lovely. She said she was getting the same. Uh…no, no NO. It was supposed to be “arena sand w/some pea gravel”. What she got was road mix…the gravel is smaller but nowhere near the size of true pea pea gravel(plus it is angular). We find small chucks of asphalt in it and it isn’t uncommon to find small pieces of safety glass.
I swear it is what street sweepers cleaned off the road after winter. It is road mix. Too deep to boot although nowhere near 12 inches. If it had been me, I would have refused it after the first dump tuck load. It is like 4 inches deep and my horse struggles in it so I basically don’t ride much in there and just pray for a warm-ish winter so I can ride outside.

My sympathies. It sounds kind of like “sugar” sand which I don’t think is an ideal sand for arenas. I find that kind of sand to “roll” to much. For sure they will have to remove a lot of it.

Susan

[equinelibrium]

Oof. That sounds like a nightmare! I’m sorry you’re having to do through this.

From what I’ve read and experienced, fiber mixtures only work well if they’re correctly maintained, meaning they’re watered constantly. Otherwise the fiber and the sand will separate. The whole goal of the fiber mix is to give the sand more structure, kind of like roots stabilize the dirt in a grass field. I’m also not sure “beach sand” would work with fiber, though I don’t know for sure. I imagine it would be a bit like using pea gravel for the base of a road instead of crushed angular gravel. Since the edges of the grains of sand are smooth, they wouldn’t compact the same way other sand would. But I could be wrong!

[B-burg_Dressage]

Wow, what a nightmare.

I ended up leaving a barn over too-deep footing once. Not worth the risk of soft tissue injuries to me.

My outdoor is only about 2 inches deep of river sand. Plenty of cushion and stability for me. I ride dressage and we do tend towards less deep.

[SusanO]

I dealt with this too and I personally know of several horses that blew out their suspensories in deep sand. When I was setting up my arena I read the booklet put out by the USDF - Underfoot . So I was aiming for 4 inches of sand to mix with fiber. Big trucks cannot get to my arena in wet weather so we were racing the clock to get the sand in there. Everything looked good until I took the horse into the arena to check things out. It was way too deep. Luckily I had not mixed the fiber in so I found somebody to come and get a whole truckload of sand out of there.

It was still a little deep but the fiber firmed it up. It is an outdoor arena and we have had LOTS of rain here so I am not dealing with loose sand. But fiber will not help if the sand is that deep and you need a special type of sand to work best with fiber. Also as others have said - fiber needs water to work well. Over a year the sand has packed at the bottom over the base ( I try not to drag it too deep) and I could add a little sand in spots in the center of the arena and I have lots of sand in a pile outside the arena.

The only way to fix that is to take out a LOT of sand.

[Ruth0552]

I feel your pain. They never drag, we’re not allowed to drag, they never water, the footing is crappy sand with rocks, etc. Sometimes a landscaping guy will drag but doesn’t know WTF he’s doing and whatever equipment they last used in the outdoor really dug deep… like I’m pretty sure there’s no base left.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@SusanO

I dealt with this too and I personally know of several horses that blew out their suspensories in deep sand. When I was setting up my arena I read the booklet put out by the USDF - Underfoot . So I was aiming for 4 inches of sand to mix with fiber. Big trucks cannot get to my arena in wet weather so we were racing the clock to get the sand in there. Everything looked good until I took the horse into the arena to check things out. It was way too deep. Luckily I had not mixed the fiber in so I found somebody to come and get a whole truckload of sand out of there.

Yes. A long time ago a friend warned me of this happening in too deep sand as it had happened to her. So it’s always on my mind. And I am not a footing princess either.

The fiber idea will not be doable for this situation. I had thought it would help but it demands its own set of ‘maintenance rules’ and when we can’t even get them to be consistent with basic stuff… wow that would be a waste of money in spades.

I am boycotting it until it’s fixed. I will haul out, ride outside when I can, or just do some very basic walk “strengthening” work until things change.