For those serious about Western Pleasure - a video

[Plumcreek]

This is a Facebook origin video of Gil Galyean, one of the top WP trainers demonstrating WP at the 2015 AQHA World Show.

Now for the bashers, the horses at this level are trained for good riders, but also for Bubba or Buffy who can kind of ride and can write a big check so they can win at the Big Shows, wearing the Bling outfits. These horses have no comparison to ranch, trail, or using horses; they are show ring specialists, very analogous to the Ammy Owner hunters at WEF who will canter quietly around and jump in good form no matter what their rider does on their back.

Gil comes from a cutting background. I watched his father Kenneth and brother Jody show horses and the whole family has natural talent and feel for any discipline.

http://thehorseaholic.com/gil-galyean-shows-us-how-western-pleasure-horses-should-be-going-the-future-of-the-sport/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork#

[Chrissy]

Interesting. Listening to him, it all sounds great and hits the main points about inappropriate gaits and movement that make me (and many others) cringe when I watch big WP classes. He also sums up what matches, in his mind based on his experience, with the pleasure horse “appeal” really well. Probably the best explanation I’ve ever heard.

While it sounds great and the concepts make sense… Somehow, the picture doesn’t quite match the words. I don’t see self carriage, I don’t see implulsion. They are still pulling, not pushing. It’s a half a gear higher, which looks better and the horses look pretty content, but still a hair unnatural and off. I understand that pleasure horses are meant to look and move differently than working western horses… But don’t they also need to look sound and physically comfortable in their movement?

I suspect he might just be trying to make it better, but in realistic baby steps. Trying to change such a trend-driven class overnight is impossible when so many trainers are still pushing for exaggerated slowness and lower headsets to be the “right” look. As a spectator who loves QH’s dearly, I really hope he keeps pushing for “just a little bit more”.

[Unfforgettable]

And as much as he talks about diagonal pairs at the trot, the horse he’s on is not doing it. The hinds are late most of the time. No impulsion or cadence.

[Plumcreek]

Problem as I see it is that most of the active riders doing better and trying to improve WP do not judge extensively or at all. The eye of the judge and background of probably having grown up in the era of un-cadenced WP movers, (and ability to mentally count 1 2 1 2 1 2 and 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3) is the great limiting factor.

And when an active judge like Al Dunning does judge a WP class, he is limited to what is shown him and calls for extended gaits. He can’t get on and fix them.

[beau159]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;8625481]
This is a Facebook origin video of Gil Galyean, one of the top WP trainers demonstrating WP at the 2015 AQHA World Show.

Now for the bashers, the horses at this level are trained for good riders, but also for Bubba or Buffy who can kind of ride and can write a big check so they can win at the Big Shows, wearing the Bling outfits. These horses have no comparison to ranch, trail, or using horses; they are show ring specialists, very analogous to the Ammy Owner hunters at WEF who will canter quietly around and jump in good form no matter what their rider does on their back.

Gil comes from a cutting background. I watched his father Kenneth and brother Jody show horses and the whole family has natural talent and feel for any discipline.

http://thehorseaholic.com/gil-galyean-shows-us-how-western-pleasure-horses-should-be-going-the-future-of-the-sport/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork#[/QUOTE]

The link says there is a database error??

Can’t see it.

[Plumcreek]

http://thehorseaholic.com/gil-galyean-shows-us-how-western-pleasure-horses-should-be-going-the-future-of-the-sport/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork#

[Cindyg]

Me either. Can you try it again?

[Mukluk]

Me either.

[Palm_Beach]

The link doesn’t work. BUT I went to the website, and there is a video of a naked man jumping a course!! Thanks Plumcreek!! :yes:

[Showbizz]

It works for me!

Based on the horse HE’S riding:

I do see self carriage. I see the horse he’s riding sitting back on his hocks and carrying the movement over his back.

That said, I do agree that the jog is off

The other two: Like the jogs, don’t care for their lopes. Having to use too much of their front ends.

[Plumcreek]

OK, here it is in a Youtube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0QWawKXu-I

[Palm_Beach]

I’m only 10 minutes into the video (yawn) but noticed that he is disengaging the horse’s hq and backing up a couple steps as he talks.

[Palm_Beach]

I do like how he had the one rider slow way down and point out how this detracted from the ideal, then had the rider speed up and how the horse was immediately more comfortable and efficient in it’s movement. The blazed face horse had more natural self carriage - a tremendously strong topline and hind end. And I agree I’d like a little more pep in all the jogs.

IMHO, the gaits shown at wp should be the same as the gaits shown in the pattern classes where the horse is required to respond promptly to a variety of cues and execute transitions, direction changes and lead changes. In wp rail classes, going THAT slow is so hard, and really only a handful of horses can do it correctly, without compromising the quality of their gaits. But SLOW is so overemphasized that the gaits of most but the few gifted ones get corrupted in an attempt to match that ideal.

[Plumcreek]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8627090]

In wp rail classes, going THAT slow is so hard, and really only a handful of horses can do it correctly, without compromising the quality of their gaits. But SLOW is so overemphasized that the gaits of most but the few gifted ones get corrupted in an attempt to match that ideal.[/QUOTE]

And that is the conversation I have had with a very good WP trainer and major event judge. In judging, he says he just flat ignores the horses that are struggling, and concentrates on the horses he will place, who can do the slow degree of difficulty well. I say that is not good for the industry as a whole, as evidenced by the 20 year major snarking toward WP, but he wants that degree of difficulty, because some CAN do it, and to speed up the classes would take away the horse’s advantage as well bred, excellent movers and the advantage to top trainers who can get the clean, slow gaits (like he can, and I really respect this guy’s ability).

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;8627367]
And that is the conversation I have had with a very good WP trainer and major event judge. In judging, he says he just flat ignores the horses that are struggling, and concentrates on the horses he will place, who can do the slow degree of difficulty well. I say that is not good for the industry as a whole, as evidenced by the 20 year major snarking toward WP, but he wants that degree of difficulty, because some CAN do it, and to speed up the classes would take away the horse’s advantage as well bred, excellent movers and the advantage to top trainers who can get the clean, slow gaits (like he can, and I really respect this guy’s ability).[/QUOTE]

Agree. I think people run into problems at lower levels where there are not enough good horses that go slow, and the judge needs to look deeper to find the rest of the placings. So does he pin an OK moving horse that is struggling because it’s going so slow, or does he pin a less OK moving horse that is chugging along a bit faster and more efficiently and comfortably?

[Plumcreek]

At the lower levels, judges should ask for the speed to be increased at every gait, which they can do.

Judges need to reach deep and find a LITTLE BIT of backbone. One futurity I was a ring steward for, many years ago, was held outside on a very windy day. After all the blown-up two year old WP horses were eliminated, Mr. Judge was left with an almost-4 beating horse to win the class. Judge was quietly embarrassed, and the next classes, he stood and stared at a 50’ section of rail, furthest from the blowing distractions.

[ezduzit]

This is a winning ride at Congress. I just can’t muster much enthusiasm for it. The lope is near the 7 minute mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD7ITFkrnB8

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;8629306]
At the lower levels, judges should ask for the speed to be increased at every gait, which they can do.

Judges need to reach deep and find a LITTLE BIT of backbone. One futurity I was a ring steward for, many years ago, was held outside on a very windy day. After all the blown-up two year old WP horses were eliminated, Mr. Judge was left with an almost-4 beating horse to win the class. Judge was quietly embarrassed, and the next classes, he stood and stared at a 50’ section of rail, furthest from the blowing distractions.[/QUOTE]

I feel about current western pleasure extreme gaits somewhat like I do about gaited horses trained for extremes of their gaits and judged on that.

I understand showing and that some extremes and fads are part of showing and being a showman and training for it.

We want horses to run faster, jump higher, spin quickest and get down on it’s belly in front of a cow more and better than the other competitors.

Still, for some reason, those crawling gaits or goose stepping extremes just seem, well, too extreme, into questioning if that is even right, what purpose it may have.

I guess that falls under the old, "different strokes … "

[sportponies4U]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8629594]
I feel about current western pleasure extreme gaits somewhat like I do about gaited horses trained for extremes of their gaits and judged on that.

I understand showing and that some extremes and fads are part of showing and being a showman and training for it.

We want horses to run faster, jump higher, spin quickest and get down on it’s belly in front of a cow more and better than the other competitors.

Still, for some reason, those crawling gaits or goose stepping extremes just seem, well, too extreme, into questioning if that is even right, what purpose it may have.

I guess that falls under the old, "different strokes … "[/QUOTE]

ugh! Call these cruel artifical gaits the cripplelongs. How and WHY would you train a horse to move like this? I nearly puke everytime I see this. Clearly this poor horses are not happy being forced to creep along. SOOOOOOOOO unnatural. Another breed is being ruined and BIG money is spent while doing this . Brings me to mind about the rear angulation of the Greman Shepards being so radical and now the breed is plauged with HD. Everthing man touches turns to s$it.

[RegentLion]

I am not a WP rider, but it is the predominant discipline in my area. There is a significant mix of “good” WP and “backyard kick n pull” WP.

I did dabble in it for a short time and found it really interesting. With the trainer I rode with, there was no strange training methods, harsh bits, tying the horse to the saddle etc.

The point I want to really make here is that a lot of these horses ARE bred to go this slow. A fellow boarder at my barn picked up a well bred colt (just turned 2) at an auction. He was un started.

His “go to” speed on the lunge is a jog or lope and he’s quite slow. Very similar to the horses in the video. He’s on ride #9 under saddle and his jog is slow slow slow. The rider isn’t asking for slow. He just offers it. The canter is unbalanced but as soon as he figures out balance I’m betting he’s going to be slow there too. She lunges him 5-10 min and rides 5-10 min. He’s going to be a cute WP horse. Interestingly enough he’s bred to be a HUS horse and will probably be 17.2 when he’s done growing. It will be interesting to watch his development.

He is just bred that way… Just as dressage horses are bred for wildly elastic uphill gaits.

So to grind your teeth and assume that people are forcing average horses into these slow lopes and jogs is simply not accurate. These horses have been bred to go slow and they do so naturally. Not saying that’s good or right, but at least in my experience, it’s not a stretch to ask most of these horses to do what they’re doing.