Free horse with strings attached

[SharonA1]

Well, so, this poor kid has terrible parents.

Obviously you need to set some boundaries, as others have said. But, in the meantime, since there is this nice kid who has no control over the inconvenient-for-her-parents fact that she loves her horse and really wants to ride, can the kid ride for half an hour, then help you with chores while you wait (inevitably ) for the parents? Can you move some of the morning chores to evening so the kid can set out hay, clean stalls, etc. under your supervision?

I’m not advocating this as a long-term solution; just trying to offer that if this is where you are right now, maybe you can make some aspects of your life alittle easier just until you get the parents into shape.

[Bogie]

That seems like a huge commitment to provide at no cost. I think the parents need to “pony up” lessons for their daughter (without the OP) or agree to reasonable visitation with no riding. If you want to scare the parents, tell them if their daughter wants to spend time with the horse that much, you’re happy to return it to the boarding barn where they can continue to pay the board.

[NaturallyHappy]

@sascha and @atlatl, I don’t think you are mean. I’m not mean and I agree. This could be a lawsuit waiting to happen… kid gets hurt and parents own the farm. If they own several businesses, they probably have lawyers on tap. I, too, feel sorry for the little girl w creepy parents but I wouldn’t want to lose my home over this. OP, I’d even consider consulting a lawyer for some type of restraining order and cut all ties, difficult as it may be.

[fivestrideline]

OP you can use SafeSport as well. You may or may not be a USEF member or ever care about showing, but that’s another Official Reason this minor cannot be dropped off at your house. She has to be supervised by a parent or legal guardian (don’t get into the weeds with all the technicalities, but it’s another thing you can use if you get dragged into a discussion).

ETA I’ve dealt with people like this, albeit not at my house and personal property. But if you give them a MILLIMETER they will take you for all you’re worth. They do not respect you, value your time, or see you as anything more than a vaguely human shaped resource to dump their child on. You either need concrete boundaries and the will to hold to them (even when it feels like you’re being an asshole) OR you need to cut them out completely. I know which one I would do, and I understand the urge to give a “reason” as well. Insurance and SafeSport (or hell, “my husband won’t allow it” if he’s okay with you throwing him under the bus) can give you the confidence to stick to your guns and send them on their way.

[Posting_Trot]

You’ve been put in a difficult situation and, yes, the parents are using you, both for free childcare and to provide some emotional stability for their child.

They seem to be not only clueless but also uniquely detached from their own daughter’s welfare. Not a classic abuse situation, but the emotional neglect is likely not just over the issue of the horse.

That said, that’s not your problem and it’s not what you signed up for when you took the horse. At the very least, you should set boundaries. One way to do that would be to say that there is a set visiting time/set number of hours every week and after that, no more. The daughter can come over on Fridays (for example) between 4 and 6 and help you with caring for the horse, but that’s it until the next Friday.

And if the parents can’t live within those boundaries, then you should feel free to cut them off entirely. You don’t have to give them excuses as to why–no need to talk about your homeowners’ insurance, etc. And you shouldn’t let them guilt-trip you either.

The sooner you do this, the better.

Good luck.

[Night_Flight]

@Threeprettyhorses

to which she replies “Wait, is (horse name) not mine anymore?” and started bawling and bawling and they left her with me to console. I was absolutely floored. When she asked them if she was not hers anymore, they stayed silent and never responded to her.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the girl’s renewed interest in the horse now that the horse is with you is an effort to show her parents that she’s still interested in the hobby.

An 11 year old’s logic, combined with a lack of explanation from the parents, might be leading her to believe that the horse will be hers again if she can just prove that she’s interested enough.

[ParadoxFarm]

In your bill of sale is there any mention of part of the agreement being you allowing the daughter to visit/groom this horse? If it’s not in writing, you have the right to make changes to how you will allow this to happen. I would NOT allow the child on my property without a parent there at all times, like someone above mentioned. No way. And I would not let the child ride…at all. Just too much of a liability issue. The child cannot waive her rights to sue by signing an agreement, either. So be careful! Even if the horse steps on her and she is injured, you’re opening yourself up for a lawsuit. It’s sad, but it’s what often happens. I agree, they are taking advantage of you as a babysitter. That’s terrible, and I feel badly for you. What happens if you decide to sell the horse? Do they have a right of first refusal in the contract/bill of sale? There’s always that option. You can sell it for market value and buy a new horse if you really want to. It’s maybe not ideal, but it is an option.

[Night_Flight]

To follow up on my own comment, while you likely don’t want to get into an explicit discussion of “this is my horse now and you’re not getting her back”, have you talked to the girl about your future plans for the horse?

Inserting sentences into conversation like “next summer, I’d like to ride her in competition, and in the long term, I hope that I can do X with her” might help to convey the idea that the horse’s future is solely with you.

[fivestrideline]

I agree with the feeling of this, but I think it’s overestimating the ability of an 11 year old to read between the lines, as it were. That’s super young for even the most worldly 11YO to understand subtlety and hints that some adults would flat out miss.
Especially if they’re blinded by goals of getting the horse back, which I think is likely.

Depending on how the paper sign over went, kiddo may not even realize her parents SOLD the horse outright. Or even what that means, ultimately. Kids can sometimes think that loving an animal enough = the animal belongs to them, or that they can “earn” ownership by doing the right things.

[Threeprettyhorses]

That makes sense because we can’t figure out why all this has changed from the time the horse was theirs and at the boarding barn to coming to my house. The only thing we could think of was maybe she feels safer being around horses at our house? The barn these two horses were at was also a show barn (some people were just boarding and some are there specifically for showing)with some horses in training (my young green show horse is still there in training) and could be a high high pressure atmosphere at times, while my house is obviously no pressure and just enjoying having the horses being outside my window.

[NaturallyHappy]

@Night_Flight, this is an excellent point! When I was 10, I could draw horses better than my 10 year old best friend. She used to tell her mom she drew my pictures hoping to prove to her mom she was interested enough to have her own pony! I’d forgotten about this until I read your post. Thank you😀. (We are still friends and got our first horses about the same time.)

[Threeprettyhorses]

When she asked the question to her parents if the horse wasn’t hers anymore and they didn’t answer, I thought about outright telling her, but my husband said that wasn’t our responsibility, that her parents need to be outright about it. She does still refer to the horse as “her horse” from time to time, so I doubt the parents ever said anything to her after they signed her over to me.

[Threeprettyhorses]

Great idea, no I have not, but I honestly have toyed with the idea of taking her to a few shows just for fun. She’s got a great show record and is honestly much flashier than my gelding who I used to show. If she had gone up for sale, I highly doubt I would have been able to afford her, even with her being middle aged. That may be a good thing to mention to her.

[fivestrideline]

Oh, I feel for this kid. She has no idea, and her parents are really doing her a disservice. Emotional neglect is probably accurate.

I think you need to decide if you want to deal with this at all, and if you’re capable of fighting these battles and standing your ground.

[Threeprettyhorses]

No, it was verbal and in their words “once in a great while” while that was clearly not what they actually had in mind. Agreed with the liability, that’s why I haven’t let her ride, and not only that, she is a very anxious rider in a ring and I don’t have a ring. I have a field with no fences and some trails through the woods, and I know that would scare her even if she does not think it would. So we have been saying the field is too deep and muddy to ride, it’s getting too dark or that the bugs are too bad out. She keeps asking repeatedly though. They just told me that if I ever wanted to get rid of her that I would give her back to them. Again, just verbally.

[Threeprettyhorses]

I want to thank everyone again for all their suggestions, knowledge and help. No one I know has ever had anything close like this to happen so I knew I had to try elsewhere for suggestions. Thankfully, I have about a week and a half-ish before the parents are back home and the inevitable evening phone calls start. So I have time to get things together with a response. I’m just so beat down and tired of dealing with all of this on top of my 40+hours a week job that I have not really been thinking clearly. When I am off work tonight I will take more time and try to respond to everyone, but seriously, thank you all so much again for your help!!

[SpicyPRE]

that is just heart breaking.

[ShenanAnna]

Just be sure you have a clear idea of your legal and liability issues when you’re making your plan. Not for excuses/reasons to give the parents (saying “no” is always the safest response, as it gives them nothing to argue/negotiate against you with), but for legitimate “protect yourself and your property” reasons.

Another option – return the horse to the boarding barn while girl adjusts to “not her horse” and you work on fixing up your place.

Sounds like you jumped into this deal without realizing potential (now real!) problems; this is your opportunity to be extremely thorough. These parents are expert grifters with resources; be extraordinarily careful.

[ottbee]

@anon40672407

People don’t just drop their child off at someone’s private house without so much as a knock on the door and no ETA of return.

Oh, neglectful parents absolutely do. Neglectful parents absolutely place their kids in unsafe situations without adequate supervision, or with inappropriate adults. OP, you are an inappropriate adult because they don’t know you well and you have not agreed to babysit their kid. I’m not saying you are not safe around kids! But their lack of knowledge or any other safety guardrail combined with your (totally fair) lack of agreement to supervise their kid, means they are neglectful in leaving their kid with you.

As the parent of a 10 year old, imo no healthy, normal, non-neglectful parent in todays day and age thinks it is remotely okay to have their kid jump out of the car at the home of someone they barely know, to be left their for hours without parental supervision. This is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, an entirely different universe, than dropping a kid off at the barn where they board their horse and trainer has permitted it. I do recognize that the culture around this kind of thing can vary among parents of different ages (although I am an ‘old Mom’ who was raised in the era of our parents sending us outside to play for 8 hours and locking the door behind us when we went) and in different places, but I have seen big variations in comfort level around this issue and NONE went this far. For me this would be enough to suspect neglect and make a call to my local ChildLine.

So what I might do is offer them 1 day every other week from X time to Y time, with parental supervision, and let them know that if daughter is dropped off without parental supervision that you will call the police for assistance as you have not agreed to and will not take responsibility to supervise the child. If they try to argue, grey rock - don’t debate the facts or negotiate or delve into explanations. “I have thought about things carefully and this is my decision” or some variation of that.

But I would also make that ChildLine call out of concern for the child, personally, too.

[Libby2563]

@Threeprettyhorses

Yes they gave her to me for free, but they still signed a bill of sale/transfer paper form through the breed association with her papers so her papers could reflect me as the owner

This concerns me a bit. Breed association papers can be evidence of ownership but aren’t solid proof. What does the bill of sale say about how much you paid for the horse? An enforceable contract doesn’t have to be on paper but you do need to have (among other things) a meeting of the minds and some form of consideration, meaning an exchange of value. The “visitation rights” and informal right of first refusal make it a little fuzzy whether you actually both agreed on the same thing, and these people are not reliable narrators. You thought you were agreeing to a possible visit once every few months. They apparently thought you were agreeing to opening a day care (well, they probably knew you weren’t and know that they’re massively overstepping, but you get my point).

You also may not have given any “consideration.” You got a potentially valuable show horse but what did they get? (We as horse people all know that they got out from under the monthly bills, but a judge may not see it that way.) You could try to argue that the visitation rights were your consideration, but they sound pretty vague plus then you are stuck with this problem in some form.

It seems a bit far-fetched that they’d try to take the horse back but it’s not impossible, especially if the girl hasn’t processed that the horse isn’t hers. If that finally becomes clear to her and she has a meltdown, might the parents try to smooth it over by undoing the whole deal? It might sound like overkill but I think you should consider consulting with an attorney regarding this whole mess (both the enforceability of your new ownership and the visitation). Also, if you still have emails or texts regarding the terms of this deal, save/screenshot them asap.

I feel for you and for the poor girl. These parents are reprehensible.