It is possible the parents are unreasonable. I think it’s equally possible they are reasonable. We won’t know unless OP attempts communicating clear boundaries and then reports to us the outcome. Which I hope OP does! I would love to hear about how this situation plays out!
6 Likes
If they drive off and leave her anyway, maybe just be the bad guy and say 'No horse time. You have to sit here at the outside table until they return, here’s a game (or an ipad or something)." That’s a hard line to take of course, but it avoids you taking her elsewhere, and doesn’t reward the parents for continuing to be manipulative, narcissistic, world-class assholes.
Or, fulfill the visit with horse-time for the girl, and then tell the parents ‘no more, it’s over’. No second chances here. Just call the game.
If you want to continue to mentor the girl BUT they don’t follow the rules, there have to be consequences. Consequences that you can reasonably follow through with.
This is really the wisest way forward, the best protection for yourself, OP.
Continuing to deal with this manipulative, untrustworthy couple in any way continues to put you at risk.
Giving the horse back and ending the relationship is probably the best and safest way forward.
You meant well, but this situation ranks high up in the annals of no good deed goes unpunished. You posted this thread because you want to end this situation, and that is the best advice – end it by cutting them off.
5 Likes
One thought re a CPS report …
As problematic as it could be (mentioned by others above in the thread), one thing is accomplished: Even if it is dismissed, it builds an official record. Later down the road if more reports come in from other sources, CPS can look back and see that it wasn’t the first time that concerns were raised by observers.
In fact, there may already be reports of some kind on the record. Another report might bring more attention. It may not ‘fix’ the situation but it might improve the parenting, at least marginally.
8 Likes
I’m an insurance account manager and am going to counter Clanter’s advice about homeowner’s policy. It was probably fine 5 years ago. Not anymore. Every week brings dire missives about yet another industry giant pulling out of certain states or ceasing to even write habitational altogether. Nationwide, State Farm, Philidephia. It’s the result of increasingly violent weather events & social inflation. The ones left (for now) are battening down; becoming extremely strict in their property evaluations and dropping policy holders left and right. Frankly, it is a scary time for the industry.
Assuming OP HAS some sort of equine coverage under their homeowners (in my state, that is not something you’ll find and I wouldn’t be surprised if the insurers who do offer it start excluding it in the next year or two) I can predict this going sideways in one of a few ways: 1) the claim ends up falling outside the boundaries of the coverage offered by OP’s homeowners. Just because a policy offers coverage for a risk does not mean that is the best place for that risk. 2) the claim greatly exceeds the limits of the policy 3) the claim is contested or denied on the basis the OP had knowledge of the risk prior to the claim event 4) OP’s insurer cancels them because of the claim. Regardless of whether it is approved or denied. OP will not be able to find another carrier to write their homeowners at anywhere near the same premium.
I am an insurance professional, but not your insurance professional. Comments are solely my opinion and should not be taken as professional advice. Always seek guidance from an insurance professional licensed to practice in your state*
14 Likes
This, 100%.
As shocking as it is to some of us policyholders, I have heard of this more and more. If – in the opinion of the insurance company – you should have known of a risk and didn’t take ordinary due diligence to mitigate it, they refuse to cover a claim.
This is of serious concern to horse people, including home farms and business lesson programs, among others.
The few court cases I’ve read (including direct lawsuits) had some fairly uninformed, even just stupid, witness testimony claiming that the insured ‘should have known’. That testimony was seemingly given credibility by the court. People who clearly knew little or nothing about horses were providing this testimony. The point being that the door is open for the insurance company to try to deny a claim, even if some of us think their reasons are ridiculous. Our opinion isn’t the one that counts.
5 Likes
The OP hasn’t come back. It could be that she just needed to vent. She sounds like she really likes the girl. It also sounds like the girl is the best member of that family. The parents sound like real jerks. Thank goodness the girl has a friend like the OP. I hope their relationship continues in some form that benefits them both. The OP could be the real difference in that young girl’s life.
4 Likes
she said the parents were out of town. I imagine she is waiting till they come back.
7 Likes
Like our attorney counseled when we asked about liability release forms for our arena, consider what is more important to you, to provide friends and neighbors with a nice arena to enjoy at your cost and very serious liability that, given a problem, you will lose all you have, or to say you can’t open the arena to one and all, not with todays laws, in the current litigations environment, too risky.
We really don’t help others that much by putting ourselves at a real serious risk in today’s senseless world, sadly.
I second if OP intends to continue any contact and offers services to this family she first consult with her insurance agent and attorney, just to know where they all stand in this situation.
9 Likes
I haven’t read all the replies yet, but this. This poor child is neglected and emotionally abused. I think these “parents” will be very difficult to deal with, but you have to set hard, firm rules. Get some thick skin. Apologize in advance to the child in private. She’s old enough to understand what’s going on.
7 Likes
I agree wholeheartedly with emotional abuse.
It sounds like either very selfish parents or divorcing parents.
3 Likes
I dont think OP is still with us. This is another one I would really love to hear the resolution. How many of us were dropped off at the barn on Saturday morning?
6 Likes
I too am eager to hear how this one shook down!
I don’t think this meets the legal definition of abuse, and again, I don’t think CPS is warranted. Someone can be a bad parent and a bad person, but not an abusive parent, at least according to the law.
I don’t have kids, but I’ve worked with adolescents and I certainly know parents who have complained about how there is always one parent who will leave their kids at every birthday party an hour late, “forget” to pick the kid up so the kid’s always at another person’s house for dinner, or who always make the daycare/coach/tutor wait around because the parent “got caught in traffic” or “needs to drop the other kid off at dance.”
It can be very awkward to complain when the child is there, or the parents often do that “drive-by” thing…obviously, these people are pushing it to an extreme, but it just may be their normal to leave their kids at various classes/houses/whatever and to take advantage of the good nature of others.
Again, the OP hasn’t had a conversation with the parents in the first place.
4 Likes
OP said the parents are still out of town/country for another 10 days or so. OP said she has a full time job and busy life on top of all this. OP has been all over this thread until a couple days ago; I’m sure when she has something more to report or offer she will check back in. She was very receptive and encouraged by this thread so I hope she’s enjoying her horse in privacy and forming her plan for when they return. 
19 Likes
The only times I was “dropped off” was in the winter when I couldn’t ride my bike. As a child aged 7-12, I practically LIVED at the little backyard boarding barn where I had my first two horses. In the winter, Mom would roll the windows down on the short ride home because I smelled so much like barn. Clothes had to be taken off in the basement and thrown directly in the wash. Times change.
And I haven’t read the definition of “child abuse” in many years (retired teacher here), but this child is definitely being emotionally abused.
3 Likes
Agree with Sdel here about investing in a legal opinion as to how valid the sale is. Find a lawyer with experience in Equine Law. If you are OK with having the girl visit occasionally ON YOUR TERMS, present this to the parents in writing in a ‘sign for receipt’ letter that is straightforward and clear. The liability excuse is excellent. This would be much easier and more effective than trying to have a face-to-face conversation, and also means that you have a record of the boundaries you are setting. It may be overkill to send a lawyer’s cease and desist letter at this point, but that could be a second step if they ignore your letter.
2 Likes
I am confused about the papers not proving OP owns the horse?
The current owners on “said papers” must sign them ( as you would for a vehicle sale) as proof that ownership has changed and the change is reflected on the papers by the breed association .
Who would not only sign but hand over the papers if the horse wasn’t changing hands??
4 Likes
I think we (general) are going off the deep end on this topic.
The OP admits she has not said anything to them yet. She came here to get advice on how to say something. That seems like a reasonable first step for someone new to something like this.
I don’t think the OP needs a lawyer or anything at this point.
They just need to decide how they want this to happen from now on (no kid at all, no kid unless parent is there with restrictions on how often) and tell these people.
How these people respond will determine what the next step needs to be.
17 Likes
Registration papers are not proof of ownership.
Think how many horses are never transferred to a new owner, people don’t bother with that if they are not breeding or showing.
Those horse papers still show forever in the registry’s books as the last owner of record, but not necessarily the current owner.
For a sale to be legal, is best to have a bill of sale in case there is later any question of who owns a horse.
At least the current owner has that bill of sale stating they bought the horse and when and from who.
If you write a check for the horse and is cashed by the seller, that can work, but it could be contested and may need to go to court to have a judgment on it.
7 Likes
Don’t involve yourself with the little girl by suggesting going to shows etc.; this would be opening a bigger can of worms. If you decide to continue to let the girl come out, make a schedule for 2 nights a week at a specific time and give it to the parents, with the condition that one of them must remain with the girl while she is there, no exceptions.
Personally, I would find some way of ending this; there are too many things that could go wrong and you would be liable, not just involving the horse but the child could get mad at you or her parents and decide to say things about you or your husband that could become a bad situation for you.
4 Likes
