Free horse with strings attached

[Grey623]

@Bogie

Otherwise you will drive her to her home and leave her there.

OP, do not put this child in your car, and do not take her anywhere. Especially, do not drop her off where there may be no adult supervision, even at her own home. The best plan, as so many have said, is to speak with the parents and set boundaries with consequences, or simply end the visits, if you can. When they come to pick her up, do not allow her to run to their car and get in. Child must wait with you until parent gets out of car and comes to you (text them if you must), then speak directly with them and be clear. Good luck.

Grey

[Night_Flight]

@MorganSercu

Not necessarily any fencing but definitely a gate with a nice “No Trespassing” sign. Ditto for access points to the barn, pastures, along the fence line for passers-by to see here and there.

I suspect this wouldn’t deter the parents, though. In their minds, they would likely think that the “no trespassing” signs are meant to deter strangers, rather than the daughter who has already been there before. And just putting a gate across the driveway might again deter a stranger, but there’s nothing stopping the parents from dropping the daughter off at the gate and leaving her to walk around it.

[MorganSercu]

I agree, but the optics may be important to others who could possibly get involved later. Not necessarily this family, although I wouldn’t be surprised if they did drop her off unannounced at a closed gate. Putting up No Trespassing signs doesn’t stop anyone, but it might deter someone, and make the insurance agent less anxious.

[JanM]

I agree. No adult should ever be alone with someone else’s kid. From dealing with underage volunteers we were told to never drive them anywhere, never have them to your home, never be alone with them, never leave them without supervision, and never think that the nice kid won’t get mad at you and claim you did something to them. One false allegation can ruin your life, I know several people this happened to, and it’s life changing. The false allegations end up on the front page, but the follow up when you are exonerated isn’t big news. The ones I know about having false allegations against them have all had their lives ruined, but nothing happened to the people who filed false reports, and ruined the other persons’ life and career.

Just because you feel sorry for the kid’s and the parents dumping her any time they can, don’t make the mistake that any one of them won’t make false accusations. Even more likely when any of them don’t get what they want out of you, free babysitting, and free horsecare.

[MissusS]

You have gotten a lot of great advice here, the only thing I will add (and maybe it was said but I didn’t see it while reading through replies):

IF you agree to some sort of visitation schedule be sure to put in an END DATE with all the other qualifiers discussed - parent must be present, must listen to your direction, the sessions will be a max of 2 hours, on a set date and time, etc etc. And put it all in writing, including that you can change the arrangements at your discretion (especially they “violate” the terms by leaving the child alone for example).

Don’t put the end date of the visitation agreement as something years out - you can put it as something that aligns with a regular set of classes (IE if they put their child in lessons, would it be a 3 month arrangement?).

Each time that duration expires, you can agree to another period of time - another 3 months for example. The key here is that YOU are setting the parameters of what is acceptable. Nothing should be open ended or left for interpretation.

If it were me, though, I honestly would just put a full stop to these visits. If you aren’t cold-hearted like me, then you could possibly see about scheduling a time to haul in to the other barn for the child to take a lesson with you as someone else suggested. But I would NOT be allowing any visitation on my property. Full stop.

[SillyHorse]

@JanM

No adult should ever be alone with someone else’s kid. From dealing with underage volunteers we were told to never drive them anywhere, never have them to your home, never be alone with them, never leave them without supervision, and never think that the nice kid won’t get mad at you and claim you did something to them. One false allegation can ruin your life, I know several people this happened to, and it’s life changing. Just because you feel sorry for the kid’s and the parents dumping her any time they can, don’t make the mistake that any one of them won’t make false accusations. Even more likely when any of them doesn’t get what they want out of you, free babysitting, and free horsecare.

This is important, and if the OP doesn’t heed any other advice, she should heed this and take it very seriously.

Please, OP, if you allow this child back on your property, one of her parents MUST be present the entire time. Get it in writing, and enforce it. Otherwise, it’s a firm NO.

[NancyM]

The"bill of sale" has nothing to do with a breed association. It is a piece of paper, that states the amount of money that has changed hands that has effected the sale, agreed upon by both buyer and seller. That must be an actual number, not zero. Money MUST change hands. $1 is enough. $0 is not enough. Especially in this situation.
If you think you own this horse, send it for “training” somewhere FAR away. Perhaps tell them that you have sent your horse to a different state for “training”. In reality, just send the horse to stay at a friend’s farm for a while. Tell them that you have sold your horse. There, the horse, that you owned, is GONE. And the child can not visit the horse there. And you can’t babysit the child. See what happens. Good luck!

[Macimage]

As several other posters have mentioned, having the horse in your name with a breed Association does not mean you own him.

The bill of sale must contain consideration. Even $1 will do and you must give it to them. Please read up on contract law. For your bill of sale to be valid, there must be what is called consideration.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Ditto the tack. You don’t want them getting mad and claiming you stole the tack, either.

[Sdel]

@Macimage

The bill of sale must contain consideration. Even $1 will do and you must give it to them. Please read up on contract law. For your bill of sale to be valid, there must be what is called consideration.

Yes, consideration. I really suggest the OP get a consultation with a lawyer about the solidity of her ownership status before she takes any actions that rock the boat. My concern is that her “consideration” is the agreement for visits and that she may not be able to back out of them so easily.

She needs to know how her jurisdiction would view the facts, and decide to resolve the situation, if it were to land in a court before she does something that could actually take her there. The last thing she wants is to be stuck with some sort of “custody” agreement (especially after the family got mad) or the forced sale of the horse.

[hoopoe]

@SillyHorse

This is important, and if the OP doesn’t heed any other advice, she should heed this and take it very seriously.

Please, OP, if you allow this child back on your property, one of her parents MUST be present the entire time. Get it in writing, and enforce it. Otherwise, it’s a firm NO.

This is one of the foundation stones of Safe Sport.

Again, End the relationship. End it. Give the horse back, or keep it, doesn’t matter.

this is all a very drama filled situation and it is not going to be happily ever after

[atr]

“There’s no such thing as a free horse…”

Unfortunately.

[Scribbler]

We haven’t heard back from OP

My impression was she hadn’t yet even tried using her words, and was conflicted about doing so.

Hopefully our feedback helps her clarify what she wants and we will hear of a successful resolution.

[Larksmom]

she said they were out of town or the country for a week otr two so it probably hasn’t been a problem. We need to just chill a bit.

[lenapesadie]

@Sdel

Yes, consideration. I really suggest the OP get a consultation with a lawyer about the solidity of her ownership status before she takes any actions that rock the boat. My concern is that her “consideration” is the agreement for visits and that she may not be able to back out of them so easily

Just so! Which is why I suggested giving the horse back as an alternative action for the OP. Avoid all of this malarkey and be done with it.

[Sdel]

@lenapesadie

@Sdel

Yes, consideration. I really suggest the OP get a consultation with a lawyer about the solidity of her ownership status before she takes any actions that rock the boat. My concern is that her “consideration” is the agreement for visits and that she may not be able to back out of them so easily

Just so! Which is why I suggested giving the horse back as an alternative action for the OP. Avoid all of this malarkey and be done with it.

Well, except the horse is now in her possession and it will probably be hard to get the other family to actually come take the horse back. Another reason to involve a lawyer and have them explain the legal options available.

[lenapesadie]

@Sdel

Well, except the horse is now in her possession and it will probably be hard to get the other family to actually come take the horse back

That’s the perfect opportunity to renegotiate the due consideration! They can supervise kiddos visits on OP’s schedule, come get the horse OR forfeit the visitation in lieu of other consideration (a purchase price).

I really don’t see the need to retain counsel, call CPS, block the parents communications or install fire breathing gates as a first step. Sure if OP tries some reasonable first steps and still has a situation then considering more intense measures would be warranted! I just don’t see jumping from the current free for all straight into involving third parties as sensible. People renegotiate deals all the time without drama.

[lenapesadie]

@Scribbler

My impression was she hadn’t yet even tried using her words, and was conflicted about doing so.

That was what I understood as well.

[ShenanAnna]

Assuming that the above posts about ownership status are correct, well, that kinda solves the problem. You’re boarding the parents’ horse for free and also being handed the child liability nightmare described.

Not your horse; not your problem.

Do what boarding barns do when there’s a horse on their property that they don’t want there, and board hasn’t been paid.

[Sdel]

@lenapesadie

I really don’t see the need to retain counsel, call CPS, block the parents communications or install fire breathing gates as a first step.

The reason to at least consult with an attorney is because the parents are not likely to be reasonable. If they were, the OP would not be in this situation.

Your statement is correct, OP shouldn’t need to, but it only applies when all side are moral, upstanding reasonable citizens and not grifters with a motivation who are more likely to resort to threats and pressure with an OP who has already admitted to having issues with confrontation. Being informed before dealing with the parents will only give the OP better ground to deal with any antics that get thrown at her.