Frequency of stone bruises and hot/close nails

[vxf111]

Purely for the purpose of academic discussion… how frequently is it “normal” for a horse to end up with a hot/close nail that results in lameness and a follow-up farrier visit? How often does your horse develop stone bruises?

Horse in question has wonderful feet. Big. Hard. Well shaped. Stands like a rock for the farrier. Turnout conditions are pretty normal for the area, and it hasn’t been an unusually wet/dry winter/spring. Less cold/snow than normal. Horse is shod in plain nail on steel shoes up front, barefoot behind.

Roughly one out of every 4 shoeings, horse either gets a hot/close nail or has a stone bruise as noticed by the farrier (horse is not lame under saddle). In the case of the hot/close nail, the farrier comes back out-- removes the nail, and the horse is immediately fine. In the case of the stone bruises, most of the time it doesn’t even seem to affect the horse. Once he was a little off under saddle. That time, he had rim pads for 2 shoeings and that solved the problem.

I just can’t figure out why he seems to always be getting one or the other. If it was the ground causing the stone bruises, how come none of the other horses are getting them and why does he only get them UP FRONT where the shoes are? The hind feet walk on the same ground and they’re less protected. Wouldn’t they be more prone to bruising?

And is there something about the shape of his hooves that makes it hard to locate the nails? Why is he the one always getting a hot nail? I cannot recall a time my other 3 horses EVER got a hot nail in the entire time I’ve owned them. One has teacup crappy quarter horse feet. One has crappy, soft, chippy, wears-glue-up-front feet, and one has high/low came-off-the-track-with-underslung-heels-and-took-forever-to-just-get-normal feet. So, if someone was going to have problems due to shape-- I’d expect it to be those three-- not the one with big, rock hard feet?

Just unlucky?

[fordtraktor]

Is it the same farrier? Once I can understand, two a concern, multiple an issue for me. i imagine there are some horses that are more prone to this, but it seems the farrier would adjust a little to compensate once the pattern became clear.

As for your question, no, it isn’t normal. I’ve had horses, lots of horses, for decades and have had a couple of bad nails and not in the same horse.

As for bruising, if you ride regularly and ever go on trails or the horse finds they one rock in the entire field (they always do!) they happen. I would only worry if they cause lameness. Just a little evidence of bruising doesn’t bother me.

If he does seem a little tender, maybe try pads. Several of my horses (the “little prince” contingent of the barn) have gone in front pads to prevent regular shock/bruising.

[EventerAJ]

What does your farrier say?

I have been told before that a horse was “difficult” to drive a nail into. Farrier explained that the horse had very little margin for error between his white line, laminae, and horn-- it was just the way the horse’s feet were, not something we could change. Farrier was always very careful and very particular about how he drove his nails, and I noticed he would have to re-start a nail more often with this horse than with others in the barn. In the 7 years I was there, the horse was only sore from a nail one time.

Whereas the farrier would sometimes let his assistant shoe (or tack a lost one back on) some of the other horses in the barn, he always, always did everything with this particular horse himself. (Of course, this was also The Big Horse in the barn, competing at upper levels.)

[vxf111]

Same farrier.

I don’t really ride regularly on the trails. This horse is mostly ridden in the ring or he’s hacked in the grass path around the ring. Maybe sometimes in a grassy turnout field. We’re certainly not making our way across the desert Hidalgo style or anything like that The turnout procedure is to allow the horses to run up a long aisle to the barn, but that aisle isn’t substantially more rocky/hard than his turnout. Mostly both are grassy. He does take the directive to “run in” pretty seriously but so do plenty of other horses at the barn.

I am wondering if maybe he’s just got a hoof structure that makes it easier to get a close nail. Less margin for error as suggested. Are some horses just like that? Even if they otherwise appear (from external view) to have GOOD feet/hooves?

Farrier always comes out and removes the nail… and the one time did suggest the pads (which we did). But he’s never explained why these issues are occuring. With the stone bruises, the time we used the pads it was in the middle of a VERY VERY dry spell over the summer and I assumed it was mostly caused by the condition of the turnout fields which were hard and dry.

He’s a good farrier, BTW. Shoes a very very BIG NAME client in the area and does all their horses from babies to stallions. So I don’t think it’s overall bad technique. Maybe a lack of attention to this horse’s unsual margin for error or maybe rushing or something-- but I sort of doubt it. When he’s there shoeing, it’s been my observation that he takes his time.

I’ll ask him what he thinks about the cause. I was just curious if anyone else had a horse who seemed to be more disposed to hot/close nails and stone bruising than other horses.

[PaulaK]

Is it always the same foot and nail? My mare has to be shod with one nail missing on medial side of a front.

[Wayside]

In all my years of horse ownership, I think I’ve only ever had one close nail. And my old TB gelding had thin shelly hooves and a bit of a club foot, so the farrier had to be extremely careful driving those nails. He’d get bruises and abscess from them barefoot, but I don’t recall him ever having problems with his shoes on.

Sadie, my older mare, has relatively thin hoof walls despite having a decent shape and hard horn, so there’s not much wiggle room on her, either.

[BarbB]

I have only had one hot nail. It was my current horse who threw a shoe while I was riding and a farrier that I know (not mine) offered to put it back on. The mare did not like him much and was not cooperative and he got a hot nail. I learned not to let a strange farrier work on her, but it really wasn’t his fault, she was being a b***h. I have never had a stone bruise, but I don’t do a lot of trail riding and stay off the sticky patches when schooling xc.
I would be concerned about repeat hot nails and would sit down with my farrier and talk about it. Maybe a change in shoes or some other solution but I would definitely have a conversation. My farrier would be furious if my horses were having ANY sort of foot issue and I didn’t tell him, whether I thought it was his fault or not.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I’ve had one “hot” nail in probably the last 5-9 years? Horse had very thin wall/soles/you name it.

More abcesses though. Spring seems to be a common time if it is really wet.

Only one horse got bruises and he had super thin soles on radiographs. Like paper. Same horse that got the hot nail…

I’m guessing that hind feet (even bare ones) are less likely to bruise because the horse carries much more of his body weight over the front feet. Makes sense to me anyway.

Did you ask the farrier what he/she thought the reason was?

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=PaulaK;6234924]
Is it always the same foot and nail? My mare has to be shod with one nail missing on medial side of a front.[/QUOTE]

A VERY excellent question and the answer is… I truly don’t remember!

[Herbie19]

[QUOTE=vxf111;6234842]

I am wondering if maybe he’s just got a hoof structure that makes it easier to get a close nail. Less margin for error as suggested. Are some horses just like that? Even if they otherwise appear (from external view) to have GOOD feet/hooves? [/QUOTE]

Yes. And I know because I own one. He’s got one foot that is slighty clubby that has exactly a nail’s width worth of wall to nail to. He doesn’t bruise easily he just has very thin walls. He’s retired now, but when he was showing alot we put him in glue-ons. On the off months he went with four nails in that foot, two pairs of bell boots and ALOT of praying!

[Roxx]

I’ve only had one hot nail so no I don’t think that’s common As far as bruising my mare was at a barn that turned in/out same way as you describe your situation…let’em rip! Anyway she developed very bad bruising in both front feet (shod on front) and required pads on so you might want to think about it. Although if your guy is sound then I might not worry but then again it only takes one little rock

[LauraKY]

I’ve had several hot nails…all at the same time and the same ex farrier. The same ex farrier who spent hours telling me how smart she is and why she doesn’t hot shoe. She also put a hind shoe on the front on two of my horses. Not both front feet…just one. First and last time I ever used her. I have a wonderful farrier now. Never have a hot nail.

Durasole to toughen up feet.

[saaskya]

none of my personal horses ever ever had a hot nail, and ive only had one that i can recall, in a boarders horse where i was BM. at same place, there was a big gravel driveway and lots of rocks, but still only had one horse get the occassional stone bruise.

where i am now, though, several of our horses have bruising, mostly under the shoe, and mostly because they have a very hard job ( foxhunters) however, a lot of them have not been lame U/S from it.

[vxf111]

Farrier was out yesterday and I just missed him. He told trainer that horse was sore because he has “very sensitive feet.”

I then called, and farrier told me that he trimmed the horse a little short, sorry, and that’s why the horse is lame.

At any rate, horse was 3/5 lame in that hoof yesterday and 0.5/5 lame today. I gave him some bute and won’t ride for a few days. Aggravating.

[Herbie19]

I feel your pain. I used to pack my horse’s feet with a mixture of Epsom salt and 7.5% betadine solution for a couple of days after he was shod. Magic Cushion works great too it’s just expensive!

[LauraKY]

Magic cushion, stall rest and a new farrier.

[Guilherme]

A “hot” nail, absent unusual circumstances, is a “farrier error.” Any farrier can have a “Monday” and make a mistake. The good ones have very few “Mondays” and correct their errors without much ado.

A “stone bruise” is usually the result of some environmental or husbandry issue. It might be that the horse has “soft soles” in which case something like Durasole would be appropriate. Or maybe the rider should stick to less challenging ground. Or maybe shoe the horse. Or maybe use a boot.

As to the original question, we’ve not had a “hot nail” in more than 15 years, with an average of four horses shod full or partial at any given time. I’d say the last “stone bruise” was more than five years ago; I don’t even remember the specifics.

G.

[vxf111]

Report is that he looks pretty good today on turnout, with the bute last night and this morning. I’ll give him one more dose tonight and then see. Hopefully that’ll resolve the issue!

[Appsolute]

I have never had a hot nail. I would think getting one every few shoeings is unusual.

Old OTTB was prone to bruises, but that isn’s something the farrier was responsible for. Pads fixed that issue.

[Rick_Burten]

A hot nail is different than a close nail. Most hot nails result in immediate lameness and bleeding. If promptly removed and the hole flushed with iodine/betadyne, there is usually no continuing lameness.
A close nail usually takes at least a few days to manifest and often results in an abscess forming. Horses often stay lame for a period of time.

When the sole bruise shows up, where is it located and what is its shape? If it is in front of the apex of the frog and usually crescent shaped, then the bruise is coming from the coffin bone impinging on the sensitive sole. From the narrative, it sounds to me that the farrier may be a bit ‘knife happy’ and removing sole that needs to stay in place and may not be deep seating the inner edge of the foot surface web of the shoe.

Regardless, Durasole is your friend. And perhaps Magic Cushion too…