So we have a mare who had her first foal last month, and the vet has been ultra sounding all week and we just ordered fresh cooled semen. Our vet likes to routinely do a double insemination with the two doses, but my understanding is that there is no real benefit to doing a second insemination within a 24 hour period if the semen is good quality, and that it can actually result in a lower conception rate since it can increase uterine irritation. Anyone who has studies on this subject?
I only inseminate once, the less fluid in there, the better, IMO. I haven’t seen any “studies”, but would be interested if they are out there! FWIW, I’ve had excellent conception rates doing this! I also only use one dose when there are two doses sent.
I try never to use the second dose unless the semen has poor numbers or motility. I agree, the less stuff in the uterus, the better
[QUOTE=elizabeth Callahan;7041197]
I try never to use the second dose unless the semen has poor numbers or motility. I agree, the less stuff in the uterus, the better[/QUOTE]
That’s what my vet told me. Since the mare I bred this year is a 13 year old maiden and had a TON of fluid in her uterus the day after dose #1, :eek: we did not want to put ANYTHING else in there unless absolutely necessary. Thankfully the semen was fantastic, she ovulated right on time, got flushed 18 hours after breeding and settled on the first go! 
Single unless absolutely necessary - although throwing the second dose out does make me cringe just a little !
I DO use the second dose and have had great results (I hate waste…;)). However it has to be AT LEAST 24hrs later. And I use the oxy protocol and only use it (the second dose) if the mare has no fluid showing.
But I agree the majority opinion these days tends to be “put it all in at once.” I know vets who do that and THAT makes me cringe…although according to them, a stallion is going to produce far more fluid during a LC than the typical 100 ccs in 2 doses of shipped semen.
One insemination unless circumstances are very unusual and seem to call for a second. The less irritation produced, the better and swimmers may keep just fine in a mare for up to 4 days.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7041839]
I DO use the second dose and have had great results (I hate waste…;)). However it has to be AT LEAST 24hrs later. And I use the oxy protocol and only use it (the second dose) if the mare has no fluid showing.
But I agree the majority opinion these days tends to be “put it all in at once.” I know vets who do that and THAT makes me cringe…although according to them, a stallion is going to produce far more fluid during a LC than the typical 100 ccs in 2 doses of shipped semen.[/QUOTE]
yes, 2
[QUOTE=Underthebridge;7041957]
yes, 2[/QUOTE]
I usually do use the second dose, as Kyzteke mentions. Unless of course the mare ovulates, then I don’t.
I am confused.
Wait until the follicle is pretty and big enough. Inseminate with one dose. Check the next day - if follicle still there inseminate again if not no.
Our vets tend to use both doses, inseminating 48 hours apart. My understanding is that they are trying to inseminate at the early point of ovulation and also towards the end of ovulation to “catch” the mare at both ends (yes, the technical term…
).
That being said, I have wondered myself whether the second insemination is necessary. We have bred to a few stallions with less than stellar motility so I can understand using the second dose in those cases, but we’re currently breeding two mares to a stallion who is known for his great swimmers: our vet bragged that he’s bred quite a few mares to him and hasn’t had one mare that didn’t get pregnant! So I am curious as to whether, in this case, the second follow-up dose is needed. It seems to be our vets’ standard protocol they are following, but it would be nice to save the cost of an extra vet visit if it isn’t necessary…
[QUOTE=alexandra;7042730]
I am confused.
Wait until the follicle is pretty and big enough. Inseminate with one dose. Check the next day - if follicle still there inseminate again if not no.[/QUOTE]
This!
We use one and check for ovulation and use the second if there was not ovulation
Vet for some reason put both doses in AT ONCE. Will we have a problem?
[QUOTE=vali;7043483]
Vet for some reason put both doses in AT ONCE. Will we have a problem?[/QUOTE]
Only if she doesn’t ovulate 
No – seriously – if he is convinced she will ovulate or she already has, then some vets feel they should use the whole shebang at once. In most cases this probably isn’t a big deal, but I’m not sure WHY he did it.
With most stallions, this would be about 60 - 100 cc of fluid, right? So for an elderly mare or one who has clearance issues this would not be a smart move, but I’m sure a young, healthy mare would clear it just fine…especially if she was getting Oxy.
However I would ask WHY? A “dose”, if properly packaged, is enough semen to provide sufficient “swimmers” to get the job done, even allowing for some to die off. That is what a “dose” is. It isn’t an arbitrary amount.
I use the 2nd dose primarily because I do my own AI and the mare isn’t monitored by a vet every day. So sometimes I’m “shooting blind” and if I have the semen, I’ll use it (as described above).
But if the vet was planning on monitoring the mare, not sure why he did that.
Did he do the Oxy protocol?
I guess I have to wonder why anyone thinks the second dose will last longer than the swimmers that have already been used, if all were collected on the same day?
As far asusing two doses at once, I do not want to use more volume than necessary. That is why I would not use two doses at once (assuming the concentration is correct and a full dose has been sent).
[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;7043624]
As far asusing two doses at once, I do not want to use more volume than necessary. That is why I would not use two doses at once (assuming the concentration is correct and a full dose has been sent).[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t put in 2 doses at once, too much volume.
This is a question that has been debated for as long as I’ve been breeding: where is the best place for that semen: in the cooler or in the mare?
I choose “in the cooler” because, according to the research I am aware of, the mare is actually a “hostile” place for the semen. IMHO the die off rate would be lower if the sperm is kept in a non-stress environment, cooled down to lessen metabolism and given nourishment (the extender).
I admittedly am not aware of any studies that actually PROVE this, but it’s the conclusion I’ve come to.
It could be that when you check the semen stored in the cooler 24 hrs later, you have only (let’s say) 50% FM when you had 70% on collection. But (for all we know) there is only 30% surviving mobile sperm from Dose #1 24 hrs. after that dose was placed in the mare.
So if you DO need a 2nd dose (because mares are mares), it’s just my thinking that the dose stored in the cooler is in better shape.
But I may well be wrong…
Of course, I have also factored in the fact that the semen is irritating to the uterus as well, so the volume is best kept under control.
But again, this is something that breeders & vets argue about constantly…
Well, your conclusion is opposite to the one my own vet and I have come to. :winkgrin: So, to each, his or her own. I guess the debate will continue. :yes::winkgrin:
People, most stallion owners use a standard number of sperm as a breeding dose and add enough extender to nourish the sperm as well as be with in reason for the mare’s uterus. It is called a “dose” for a reason. It is not called a “half dose”.
The second dose is there in case the other dose leaks. That’s about it. I suppose another reason could be if the semen has a much lower motility than when the calculations were made and it was originally extended (hopefully the stallion manager sends you that info), like if the shipment got delayed or over heated, then it would be reasonable to use more volume to get a breeding dose.
