frost free hydrant installation question/ problem

[Christa_P]

Trying to install a frost free hydrant. Dug the trench, laid the water line, T-ed into the existing line to the house just outside the well. Pump is in the well, pressure tank is under the house, Tee is between them. Hooked up the hydrant and we have very minimal pressure at the hydrant.

Three people looked and did not see a kink in the new water line. Hydrant seems to work - valve opens and closes, drain line works. I do have water pressure in the house. Pressure gauge shows 60 lbs. I can hook a hose up to a line that comes out from by the pressure tank and have plenty of pressure for about 150 feet of hose that water the horses.

Any ideas?

[PeteyPie]

It sounds like a simple blockage. Did you test the pressure at the end of the pipe before you hooked up the hydrant? Did you remove all the plugs in the fixture?

Here are some other ideas.

• Is there a governor on the hydrant which restricts how far you can open the nozzle? That is something I have missed before.

• Is your water line adequately sized for the bib? I’ve read it should be at least 3/4" pipe.

• Could there be globs of solder or pipe glue inside the pipes, or even sand or dirt, blocking the water flow? Try taking off the hydrant, running the water, rinsing the hydrant well. Does the hydrant have a filter? Check that.

• There could be a leak in the water line. Did you check the pressure at the end of the water line before you attached the frost-free bib? Could you have pierced the pipe/water line with a shovel, causing a small leak? Is the water line laid on top of a soft sand base or is it right on top of gravel, which can cause a break?

[chicamux]

Seems to me that your water line to the hydrant needs to attached to the pipe AFTER the pressure tank, not before it.

chicamuxen

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;7883793]
It sounds like a simple blockage. Did you test the pressure at the end of the pipe before you hooked up the hydrant? Did you remove all the plugs in the fixture?

Here are some other ideas.

• Is there a governor on the hydrant which restricts how far you can open the nozzle? That is something I have missed before.

• Is your water line adequately sized for the bib? I’ve read it should be at least 3/4" pipe.

• Could there be globs of solder or pipe glue inside the pipes, or even sand or dirt, blocking the water flow? Try taking off the hydrant, running the water, rinsing the hydrant well. Does the hydrant have a filter? Check that.

• There could be a leak in the water line. Did you check the pressure at the end of the water line before you attached the frost-free bib? Could you have pierced the pipe/water line with a shovel, causing a small leak? Is the water line laid on top of a soft sand base or is it right on top of gravel, which can cause a break?[/QUOTE]

It is not a leak - that would affect the pressure in the entire system. Something in the line is possible, though unlikely. It was a brand new line. The line from the well is 1 inch, the line to the pump is 3/4 inch.

[PeteyPie]

Actually, if there is a leak in the pipe and you don’t have anything restricting the water flow at the end, it won’t be obvious. I’m thinking of a hose with a small hole; the water flows well and you might not even notice the rip until you attach a hose bib or if you put your thumb over part of the end, in which case the water will start gushing and spraying through the tear in the hose.

Is the trench still open?

Edit to add: please let us know what the problem is when you solve it. We all learn

[moving_to_dc]

I also think you’d have better pressure if the hydrant was after the pressure tank.

Another thing that can drop your pressure is changing from 1" line to 3/4" line. Seems like a tiny thing, but has a HUGE impact on water pressure. The barn I work at just replaced it’s 3/4" line with 1" line. It used to take several hours to fill a 100gal tank, now it is full in less than 10 minutes.

[merrygoround]

Absolutely! The water line to the hydrant needs to be hooked into a line that comes from the pressure tank that services your house.

[Jim_in_PA]

[QUOTE=chicamux;7883796]
Seems to me that your water line to the hydrant needs to attached to the pipe AFTER the pressure tank, not before it.

chicamuxen[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

[Tom_King]

You probably got dirt or a rock in the line at some point during the assembly. Let it run for a while, and if it’s just dirt, it will probably dissolve.

That pressure tank position is fine.

REPEAT: THAT PRESSURE TANK LOCATION IS OKAY.

It pressurizes the whole line back to the pump. Any check valve is built into a submersible pump at the bottom of a well, or at the bottom of the well for a jet pump.

[airhorse]

Does the pressure increase if the well pump is running? Maybe a check valve somewhere unexpected. Ours is setup the exact same way with no issues.

[Tom_King]

There wouldn’t likely be a check valve anywhere else that would cause this. The pressure will be between the low and high settings of the pressure switch. If it drops below, the pump turns on-unless you have a constant pressure system, with a variable speed pump. In that case, it will always be the same pressure.

I put in one of those the last time we had to replace the pump-ours typically last 15 years, and this was the third one after 32 years. Our pressure tank is under the house, and the deep well with submersible pump is about 100 yards from the house. There are five hydrants between the well and the house on separate branches, and they all work just fine.

[Christa_P]

Tom, thank you. I thought the set up was fine, but nice to have it confirmed. Is there any chance the drop from a 1" line to a 3/4" line could be the problem?

[Tom_King]

3/4 should move plenty of water

[airhorse]

Does the flow improve when the well pump is running?

[Bluey]

Our pasture lines are 2", because we depend on them for storage, not just supplying the tanks.

The pressure may change as we go up and down in the canyons, some drops gets us easily over 100 ps on the bottom, but we add pressure relief valves for that.

On a straight line and close to a pump and pressure tank system, to reduce from 1" to 3/4" should not be noticeable as any kind of change in pressure at the faucet.

Easy to have something in a line that swirls around and clogs it at times.
Probably where you should start looking first, if you are sure the hydrant’s rod is not slipping.

I wonder if you could dig the faucet up and check the line itself, then check the faucet, it could have something in there also.

Not the same, but after checking everything on our tractor hydraulics when we kept losing pressure here and there to our loader, we finally found a grasshopper in one of the lines.
Still can’t figure how he got in there.

[Jim_in_PA]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7884797]

Not the same, but after checking everything on our tractor hydraulics when we kept losing pressure here and there to our loader, we finally found a grasshopper in one of the lines.
Still can’t figure how he got in there.[/QUOTE]
Clearly stupidity on the grasshopper’s part…

[Christa_P]

[QUOTE=airhorse;7884766]
Does the flow improve when the well pump is running?[/QUOTE]

We haven’t checked this yet.

The line is partially buried, but the ends are still open, just mostly under water. I will probably have the trench reopened along with the temporary diversion ditch for the water. This is an artesian well that flows constantly (as in overflowing the well casing creating a mess) and the overflow line (eventually this will feed a trough in the pasture) is the next step after we get the hydrant working.

[gumtree]

Agree with everything Tom King has given. I only use black poly pipe and ¾ inch is plenty sufficient. The farthest run on our farm from the pressure tank is 1,600 feet and there is plenty of water pressure on the last hydrant. My pressure gauge is set at around 50lbs.
If there is a leak somewhere the pump will cycle out of the norm and you will hear the pressure switch kicking off and on. Or just turn off the pump and check the pressure gauge at the tank and see if it drops. Or buy a cheap pressure gauge that screws on an outside water outlet, open, check the pressure and then turn off the pump and see if it drops. In any case it would have to be a BIG leak to effect the water pressure at the hydrant. Big leaks are easy to find because the ground will get boggy around where it is. The small ones are a PITA. If it is leaking at the hydrant where you joined it to the existing pipe you will find out in short order because the standing pipe will slosh around, becomes loose as the ground gets water logged.

Possible you have a defective Hydrant and the valve is not completely opening. Or as PetyPie offered the “down rod” is not set correctly. Not all hydrants are the same but I ones I use the down rod is adjustable where it connects to the handle. The top of the rod is treaded and screws into the swivel connector that attaches to the handle. Remove the bolt and screw the connector in “shortening” the rod which will open the valve at the bottom more. But if it shorten too much it may not close the valve all the way. I’ve never had to adjust these.

It could be as others have said a clog, maybe something fell into the pipe while installing. I always have someone turn on the water briefly before attaching the hydrant to make sure the pipe is clear.
Short of digging out the hydrant and clearing the line you might be able to try and “blow” it out if you have access to a compressor. This would require disconnecting the hydrant line at the pressure tank, let the water drain out, and there may be a lot. You will have to “MacGyver” something on the hydrant outlet so as to get a decent “seal” to “inject” air and hopefully the clog if there is one will come out and end up on the floor/ground.

I always turn on the water and check hydrant function. Then leave it pressurized for a while to check for leaks at the joint before I back fill.
Let us know when you figure it out.

[airhorse]

I hope you put a shutoff valve somewhere in line so you can have house water if you ever need to shut the hydrant off. Now would be the time to do so.

It might be a good idea to take the entire head off the hydrant and let it free flow to get any debris out.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=airhorse;7884928]
I hope you put a shutoff valve somewhere in line so you can have house water if you ever need to shut the hydrant off. Now would be the time to do so.

It might be a good idea to take the entire head off the hydrant and let it free flow to get any debris out.[/QUOTE]

IMO and experience if the clog is small enough to get through the “plunge” valve at the bottom it is not going to be big enough to get stuck in the considerably larger riser pipe. But stranger things have happened.

Installing a shut off valve the way this has been “plumbed” would require a “special” buried valve that is turned off with a T handle shut off long enough to reach the value connected to the water line. Requires installing a section of PVC drain pipe over the value to insert the shut off handle and to keep dirt from falling in and a cap.

All of my water lines run from the pressure tank with their own dedicated shut off valve. Even the hydrant that is installed right next to the well line like this one. A lot of extra work but beats being without water if the hydrant should fail in the middle of winter. Trying to dug in frozen ground to fix makes for miserable work.

OP, this maybe a stupid question, did you remove the plastic insert on the on the outlet of the hydrant head? This would flush out if a hose is not connected. But not if one is, the hose fitting will hold it in place. Some water will escape around it.