Last summer we had a frost free hydrant installed outside the barn.This year we’ve had an unusually cold winter and now we’re not able to lift the handle.Thinking it was frozen we slowly warmed up the above ground section of pipe (about 3’) and the handle using a weed burner. But we are still unable to raise the handle to get water. Looking for suggestions. TIA
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really have no real answer but I would wrap the stand pipe with a heat tape to see it it would transfer heat throughout the unit without damaging any rubber parts… might look at the instructions on the heat tape to see if can be wrapped with an insulating wrap to force the heat into the standpipe
otherwise its time to get the shovel out to see if the installer put in a dry sump under the hydrant to allow the discharged water to migrate away form the hydrant
Here the frost line is measured in inches rather than feet
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It’s frozen. Especially the first year after the hydrant has been put in, the ground around it has not settled fully, and it is far more likely to freeze that first winter, especially if it is a cold one. DON’T force the handle, just leave it until it thaws. Make other arrangements for water until it thaws. Hopefully it won’t freeze again in future winters, after the ground has fully settled, in time. Adding heat to the top part won’t help, it has frozen down deep. Another issue can be beating a path or roadway over your water line. The pressure can drive the frost deeper, and cause a deep line to freeze. BTDT.
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BTDT.
after having water lines buried four feet freeze we gave up and moved south
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You don’t say where you are located and what kind of weather you have been experiencing. I have personally installed lots of Frost Free hydrants in SE Pa. Our typical winter temp vary from year to year. Some mild ones some very cold ones, single digits and sub 0 from time to time, well below freezing for weeks at times. When installed correctly I have never had any problems with 6 out of 7 hydrants. All lines were buried close to, some sections a bit higher then I would have liked other below the frost lines for our area.
The hydrant that did freeze up on me during a particularity long cold snap was in the line supply line where it connects to the hydrant. I had a lot of trouble due to rocks getting the trench deep enough. Even though there were other lines buried a bit shallow that never froze up. This line was buried in an area that did not get a lot of sun, “solar gain”. So the ground froze deeper then the other lines all of which where competently exposed to bright sun all day. The hydrant itself did not get a lot of sun, solar gain during the day.
IME when the hydrant can’t be opened, This is almost always due to lack of drain field preparation when being installed. So the water in the stand pipe is not draining out quickly. This not always a freeze issue when temps are below freezing. Depends on how far below freezing. The major contributing factor for slow draining water freezing in the stand pipe. Is the wind chill factor, esp when the temps are well below 32. The metal pipe itself is a heat/cold sink sucking out any warmth in the stand pipe water quickly. When a cold wind is blowing and or even when the temps are in the teens low 20s with a little to no breeze. Depends on how slowly the water is draining.
There is only about a quart of water in the stand pipe of a 6 ft hydrant. I know because I measured the amount recently with a uninstalled hydrant. A quart of water in a quart bottle is not going to freeze quickly do to it’s mass. Take the same amount of water and spread it out into a thin volume and it will freeze much quicker.
The rod going down to the bottom value can an does act like a heat sink also. It doesn’t take that thick of a freeze layer in the stand pipe to keep the water above it from draining. There is little to no pressure weight of water above it.
Assuming the hydrant is draining slow the freeze plug is most likely low in the pipe. As the water drains slowly it is getting colder and colder. The freeze plug most likely is below the grade of the ground. Above the frost line. Depends on how deep you ground has frozen. Sometimes, some winters the ground only freezes several inches or a couple of feet.
A weed burner is far better to try and heat things up then a small hand held bottle propane torch. IME when stand pipe water has frozen it is had always been on the lower part of the pipe. No need to heat up the top of the hydrant or the handle. There is a rubber O ring seal where the rod comes out. This can be damaged if heated too much. Water will leak/spray out of this, esp if a hose is attached which creates back pressure.
The problem now is how to thaw the water in the stand pipe. This is what is “locking” the handle. The water is frozen to the the stand pipe valve rod. Didn’t say how long you tried heating the stand pipe. IME if you just keep the heat on the pipe when it enters the ground. You can keep it there for a long time without worrying about damaging the “rubber stopper” that is attached to the rod at the bottom. This is several feet below the grade. If you can heat it enough to open/move the handle there is still enough water to keep the temps below the point that will effect the rubber stopper that seats in the valve at the bottom of the hydrant. Keep the heat on the pipe and keep trying to move the handle. If you can get it opened a little bit the incoming water will help thaw, move the freeze plug up the pipe. Water will/should start trickling out and as things melt more and more the freeze plug should break up and come out in bits. Then come gushing out.
This generally works but not always. Depends on how thick the freeze plug is, where it is, how deep the ground has frozen and how cold the ambient temps are.
If this doesn’t work. You’ll have to wait for warmer temps. Or as suggest wrap the stand pipe with heat tape. Concentrate it near the bottom. Even better if you can dig down as much as you can to wrap below the grade. Wrap the pipe with some sort of insulation also. Quality heat tape does not get hot enough to catch things on fire. Quality heat tape has a little build in thermostat on it. Give it a couple of hours and check the handle.
If this doesn’t work and you really want to use the hydrant. The next step is to take the head off. First step is to shut off the water to the hydrant. If not and you get it thawed out. You will get a water geyser, like oil wells we see in the movies. The rod will shoot out with the geyser of water.
With the head removed you can try heating the top of the rod sticking out. This may conduct enough heat down the rod to thaw things. Heat the pipe also and you may be able to pull the rod out with the freeze plug attached/wrapped around it.
There is a product, the name I can never remember that dairy farmers use in frozen hydrants. You pour it in and it heats up. I have had luck using lots of boiling water poured into the stand pipe. Depends on ambient temps. Always thought that drain cleaner may work. This stuff heat up by a chemical reaction with water. Pour it in and add some hot water on top of it. Haven’t had one freeze up since thinking of trying this.
Sorry for the long verbiage and details. I figure the more people understand the “dynamics” of how thing work. The better it makes for trouble shooting. The above may or may not apply to what you have going on. Hydrants don’t have a lot of moving parts, very simple in design and function. The above is based on what I have experienced and how I got things working again.
A proper drain field is very important, exp in areas that get deep cold snaps from time to time. Esp with pour, slow draining soil around the bottom of the hydrant. Like thick clay soils or others of like. IME when friends have called on me for my help. I have found hydrants installed by residential plumbers don’t not pay close enough attention to proper drain field prep and testing before back filing. It doesn’t have too be big, there is only around a quart of water draining out with each use. So it not labor or time consuming to do it right. Just a good understanding of who frost free hydrant work. Eps when installed in areas that can get very cold at times, with wind chill factors in pour/slow draining soil. Dig 6 inches a foot below the bottom of the hydrant and fill with pea gravel below the hydrant and above the drain hole. I cut the top and bottom off a plastic gallon milk jug. Slip it down the stand pipe to the bottom and fill with pea gravel. I but and install an elbow that screws into the drain hole pointing down. So nothing can settle into the small hole and slow the draining process. I also wrap the heat tape starting about a foot down the supply line, around the elbow joint and up the stand pipe to just above grade. So if things should freeze up I can plug it in. Quality heat tape for this only cost around $30. Cheap insurance if needed. Cheap if never needed.
It’s also a good idea to install the hydrant where is will get a lot of sun during the day for solar gain. IMO it a good idea to spray/paint it flat back to increase the solar gain effect.
Good luck let us know how you make out.
For reference, a visual. This is the rubber stopper at the bottom of the rod and seats in the valve at the bottom of the stand pipe. It would take a LOT of heat to damage this.
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Gumtree, you’re thinking of propylene glycol. It doesn’t take much if you can somehow get a little down the standpipe.
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Dh takes care of the water, and as soon as a frost free hydrant freezes he gets out there with gallon jugs of hot water and pours it over the top of the hydrant until it thaws. There’s no danger of melting rubber parts with hot water, and if you can catch it when it first freezes it usually only takes a gallon to thaw it. As someone else said, don’t force the handle or you’ll strip something below ground. Just keep slowly pouring hot water over the top of the hydrant so that it runs down the pipe until it warms up enough to thaw at the bottom.
I was able to push 1/4’ polyethylene tubing backwards into the spigot end and down the tube. I connected mine to an air-compressor and blew low-pressure, above-freezing air (Air-compressor was in a heated room) It took several hours. I new it was working because every once in a while I was able to push the tube a little further down the hydrant.
Reflecting on the process - using the same hose, warm water and a small pump would have shortened the process considerably.
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When we used to have steel lines, we connected one lead of the welder to one end of the line and the other line to another end.
The vibration cracked the ice and helped water flow.
Can’t do that with plastic lines.
If all that is frozen is right on the hydrant, some times if you tap-tap-tap the pipe with a hammer for a bit, you can shatter the ice enough for pressure to push water thru the frozen spot and clear the line.
Exactly, thanks. Figures that someone from the Dairy state, a cold state would know what I was talking about, lol
This hand pump works well for the job. One tube goes in the bottle and the other can be pushed through and into the stand pipe. Can pump hot water into it also. Less work then pull the head off.
But with the head off, pouring hot water in and heating the pipe at the base can and does melt the ice block enough to be able to pull the rod out with ice and all, Popsicle. But it doesn’t always work depending on temps, depth of frozen ground.
I got this at Harbor Freight for $7.
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The handle isn’t what is frozen. It is the rod that is attached to the handle going to the bottom seal, as pictured. It’s in frozen in water that didn’t drain out of the stand pipe. The water may get on the handle hinges and freeze. But it doesn’t take much effort to break this bind. Sometimes a bit of water comes up through the O ring seal and freezes to the rod. Which makes it difficult to pull the handle up. A bit of heat appied to either will melt it quickly. But even just pulling on it will free it.
Assuming there is water in the stand pipe that is frozen to the rod. Trying to force the handle up strongly. Good chance it will break at the hing attachment. The handle and head is made of somewhat brittle cast iron. Cast iron is even more brittle in subfreezing temps. Or the rod can strip out where it attaches to the handle.
I’ve tried pouring lots of hot water down into the ground around the stand pipe. Never worked for me.
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Don’t know what you mean by “virbration” and how this is cause by connecting electric welder leads (wires). This is SOP for frozen water lines residential housing from the street supply line main to the house. This works by creating a controlled “short” that heats up the pipe. Works the same as an electric heat and the “glowing wires”. Thought this was very cool when I was a kid seeing it done.
I tried tapping, more like banging on the pipe with a hammer. Never worked for me and the conditions/temps I was dealing with. But worth a try. If you can get some water flowing by the ice damn. The flowing water will/should melt it given time.
That is what I was told almost 50 years ago, when they were showing me how to hook it up.
Seem to remember that you could feel the pipes vibrate, so it made sense.
Have done since then many times, until we started using plastic pipes now decades ago.
Didn’t have any reason to check that.
Thanks for explaining how it works.
The reason we kept having lines freeze, headquarters were in a sandy draw and over decades the ground had erosioned enough that the initial pipes laid there in the early 1900’s were not as deep as laid.
We finally abandoned them and put a new PVC system of pipes most every place that was happening, again buried so they would not freeze so easily.
It is no fun to go digging several feet down in the middle of winter to fix leaks, or haul water.
I hope the OP got it’s hydrant defrosted by now.
Some hydrants, we would use a larger pipe over the hydrant.
For some we used old leftover fireplace pipe lengths.
We then added schcrunched newspapers, use a piece of an old rubber innertube wired on the top around the hydrant head and another around the top of the pipe.
That kept those that tended to still freeze without protection now open.
I had to prove to a product engineer that lubricate was required on a threaded shaft. With an eye dropper I put two drops of water on the shaft and ran the threaded nut over the water on the threads… put the shaft in a standard freezer for 15 minutes… you could not move the nut even when placing the shaft in vise ad taking vise grips to the nut
But add a very small amount of a cream lubercant to the threads and repeat the process the nut was free to move
Agreed. The handle is only “frozen” because the rod is frozen somewhere. And if you have 3-4’ frozen water in your stand pipe, it will take a lot to thaw it.
Three guesses - the bury depth is too shallow, or your hydrant isn’t draining and that is why it froze, or there is a leak somewhere and it’s frozen because it’s still slowly running.
The bad news - there is really nothing you can do to fix this quickly. You could pour boiling water over the hydrant, but it doesn’t solve the problem. And makes it likely that you’ll break the rod by forcing the handle.
My hydrant isn’t draining but I have it rigged up with a self-regulating pipe heater installed by my electrician friend. I’m tired of hearing “but it should be draining” - yes, I know! But it’s not. And we’d like to dig it up in nicer weather so for now, this is working really well.
OP how deep did you bury it and where do you live?
Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. I live in the western part of Colorado. We’ve had some 9 degree mornings and a lot of days we didn’t get over 32. We had a professional contractor install the hydrant and the line if 5’ deep. We weren’t there for the install but plan on giving him a call and ask if he placed any gravel at the bottom.
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Lots of great advice above.
Another reason for these things freezing is doing stuff like leaving the hose attached after you turn it off.
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Agreed, that is probably the #1 cause for freezing. The hydrant can’t drain if the hose is attached, leaving water in the stand pipe, above the frost line.
My frost free hydrant is inside the barn. Of course it froze every winter. My dad had built a wooden insulated box around it but it still froze. What I did was put a little portable thermo heater inside the box facing the pipe. It took some time but the pipe would heat up, melting the water below and after a while I could raise the handle. I only did this while I was in the barn and kept the lid to the box open a bit as it would get quite warm in there.
But you realize that there should be no water in the stand pipe if it is working properly. So insulating the stand pipe shouldn’t make it less likely to freeze if it’s empty. If it’s not deep enough, it could freeze anywhere between the well to the valve, so insulation over the stand pipe would be pointless.
In your case it sounds like the stand pipe didn’t drain properly (which is my problem right now also). The solution is to dig it up and put better drainage around it so that it does drain correctly. (Which is my plan for this summer.)
