Well, I have to tell you that a few years ago a friend who was selling her horse had the same kind of offer - a man wanted to buy the horse, sight unseen, send her a check and have his hauler get the horse. After some back and forth, my friend agreed to the sale as long as the check cleared before the hauler came for the horse.
The check cleared, the hauler came for the horse, and as far as I know, everyone lived happily ever after. It was not a cheap horse, a successful jumper stepping down a little, so no one bought the horse to sell for meat.
I’m not saying that the OP’s situation isn’t a scam (it certainly could be), but strange things do happen in the horse world.
Before I wrote this post, I told him no thanks. I wasn’t comfortable just putting her on a trailer without so much as a reference (he was also trying to push me to do it right now which in hindsight definitely means scam … Definitely not time for back and forth like SillyHorse’s situation, although it sounds like an outlier). Glad to have some second opinions that it sounds sketchy though, I definitely second guessed myself afterwards
All of this. It works, because people believe in a cashier’s check.
Sometimes the shipper does show up almost immediately to pick up the animal, and be paid in cash. So they get away with the animal and the cash.
This scam also happens with buying hay in quantity. If the scammers time it well, they get away with the cash paid to the ‘hauler’ and the hay they pretended to buy.
It also works because in current times, banks accept legit-looking incoming funds, and give their customers credit for the funds before the instrument actually clears the system. This has become a competitive part of banking so most of banks will do this. Most customers don’t realize their incoming funds haven’t actually cleared yet, because there are never any issues. But if it doesn’t clear, then the bank reverses the funds they advanced to the customer. Eek.
However, many banks have put a cap on the total amount that they will make immediately available. Trying to limit losses on schemes like this. But the scammers just keep trying until they find a victim who can pay their hauler.
Absolutely. Part of the scam is rushing the victim through the process. Keep it urgent, keep them moving, finish the deal as quickly as possible, and don’t give them time for second thoughts before the deal is done.
I think your good sense saved you and your horse from a sad ending to that deal.
Not a horse but a trailer in my case. Scammer wanted to send a check and have the trailer picked up by a shipper (sight unseen). I said no, cash only in my hand then trailer could be picked up. Scammer said he/she didn’t trust shipper with that much money ($8K) in cash coming to my farm (true, a bit remote). I said fine, I’ll haul to the parking lot of the police station and shipper can give me me cash there and take the trailer. Scammer said he/she didn’t trust shipper with that much cash . . .ummm, but you trust the shipper to pick up the trailer?
Trailer was sold for the same amount to a member of my hunt club.
Definitely an outlier. Even knowing this worked out for my friend, I would immediately think “scammer!” if I were in a similar situation. The rush to get it done is a huge red flag.
There was a thread on here where someone strung the scanner along, resulting in some pretty funny correspondence.
If I can find the thread, I’ll link here.
It might amuse
Found one:
A simple “Yes, he/she is.” is fine. A legit buyer will follow up with specific questions or to arrange an in person visit. The question is the horse still available is a check to avoid wasting their (buyer’s) time in asking detailed questions.
Or someone hitting the button on the ad by accident.
This has been used for a LONG time to deraud the banks themselves. Many years ago (I think early 1990s) I was working on a project to help design a compuer communications network for a regional bank,
One of the things that came up in discussions was that they had situations where-
A new customer opens an account with a cashiers check
A few days later, after the funds are “available”, but before the check has actually cleared (this was when banks mailed checks to each other, so there was significant “float”) the new customer withdraws part of the money.
The “cashiers check” turns out to be a forgery, and the bank is out the money.
Exactly. This is what I do. As much as I can, I try to only respond via the page I’m using, not through my personal email-to-email or text until I get a better feel for the “buyer”. Though, this is when I use Dreamhorse or Equinenow, etc. I don’t use FB.
I would only do this if I could call the bank it’s drawn on and verify the funds. Then I’d still wait for it to clear. Sketchy folks out there, and it makes me sad.
Exactly. Sucks as a buyer to type out a bunch of questions only to be told the horse already sold. It happens a lot, and as a buyer it’s discouraging so I want to get that out of way before getting too invested.
Stuff like this is why I’m glad that even though I advertised my gelding on FB, I only really advertised him to local groups. So many wackos and scammers out there
Many sellers are receiving tons of responses from people.
I Inquired about a hunter just posted on Big Eq, it already had a deposit before someone’s test ride. So asking if it’s still available, saves time. Many sellers don’t get back to me at all, 60-100k, person is ready to fly out and spend, nope, no responses. The sellers market is still really good and most trainers are busy scheduling their PPE’s.
I left out th 4th step. The “new customer” closes the account, and leaves town, before the bank discovers that the check was fake. So the “new customer” may be legally liable, but there is no way to collect it.
But in the scenarios described above, it is not a “new customer”. It is an old customer, the person being scammed.
Hay seller makes the agreement discussed above with someone who is actually a scammer. Hauler will pick up hay. Scammer sends ‘cashier’s check’ with amount for hay + hauler.
Hay seller takes the cashier’s check to the bank and deposits it, along with their other valid checks for hay sales. As they always do. (Or horse seller, or whatever was sold.)
Hay seller withdraws cash sufficient to pay the ‘hauler’ per their agreement. Because banks customarily allow this up to a certain amount, even though the checks haven’t yet cleared the ACH system.
Later the cashier check problem is found out by the system – whatever the reason, no real funds. Bank does not get any funds from the bum cashier’s check.
Bank withdraws the sum of the cashier’s check from the hay seller’s account where it was deposited. Because the check is no good.
Hay seller is the one party that is ultimately out the funds. Not just the amount of the cashier’s check paid for the hay and the hauler. But also add the amount of cash they withdrew to pay the hauler – that now has to be made good with their own funds.
Sellers can fall for this because the scammer appears to be buying enough to make it a good & desirable sale. The scammer asks for an amount in cash to pay the hauler that is under the bank limit on a withdrawal against a just-deposited check – that’s the amount that they are stealing. (That is, the amount to pay the hauler that was added to the total of the check.) And of course everything is an immediate rush, so it happens before the ACH system catches the bad cashier’s check.
It is a really dirty scam against hard-working people doing honest business with whatever they are selling.
Bank automated systems are making it harder for this scam to work. But there are reports of it still in operation around the country.
I always put a phone number in my ads. Once an initial message is received, I ask them to call. It’s amazing how long someone can string you along with texts or private messages, then disappear. Having to pick up the phone seems to make a difference in sifting out the serious vs. unserious.
