Frustrated with my short arms.......

[Ysabel]

I have terrible body proportions for riding - long torso and almost dwarfishly short arms and legs.

My coach is constantly telling me to lower my hands (and she has a point they do tend to come up), but she insists that I lower them farther than I feel is physically possible with out tipping forward in my saddle. She tells me that she should not be able to my outside hand over my horses withers - but if I sit on my horse and put my arms straight down with zero bend in my elbows then my hands still don’t reach my horses wither unless I lean forward. I worry because A) my shoulders are killing me trying to force my hands lower, B) my contact with my horses mouth is hard because I have no bend in my elbows and C) I end up tipping forward in the saddle and putting my horse on the forehand.

I know my coach knows her stuff - she is a brilliant rider and competitor - but I wonder if she just doesn’t appreciate how bad my body proportions are.

Has anyone else dealt with this issue? If so how did you compensate for your body type?

[CapitolDesign]

We talked about this in a USDF Instructors Certification.

Some people are built in a way that does not allow for a “perfect” arm position. If your arm is slightly bent and you still cannot get your arms/hands low enough for your instructor, you are being asked to put them too low.

You should always have a slight bend in your arm to allow for flexibility in your arms/contact.

Forcing your arms lower/more forward will only cause too much tension in your arms - defeating the purpose of a correct arm position.

Can you show pictures of where your arms are and what it looks like when you force them forward/down?

[mbm]

not sure about the slight bend… but our upper arm should hang vertically against our trunk… our lower arm goes however it needs to to keep a straight line from bit to elbow.

also, our upper arm belongs to our seat, lower arm belongs to the horse.

i have “short” arms too. and what really worked for me was to really get the idea that upper arms stay with trunk, elbows soft and following. and if any trainer tells me to lower my hands i will do the best i can without losing the upper arm vertical thing - it really does matter.

also, it might be your are perching a bit in your saddle… if you are sitting deeply in the saddle it is a lot easier to lower your hand.

but in any case - work on stability in your seat/upper body and work on keeping your upper arm with our upper body

[Ysabel]

but our upper arm should hang vertically against our trunk… our lower arm goes however it needs to to keep a straight line from bit to elbow.[

Ever since I switched to dressage I have had several coaches picking at me for to get my hands lower. I finally became frustrated and gave up lessons for a while and I worked on just keeping my upper arms vertical (elbows back, in and soft) and letting the horse’s head position dictate were my lower arm fell. (When I force my hands to go lower I lose the straight line from mouth to elbow.)

Currently my seat needs a lot of strengthening - I just came back from a year break from riding as I waited for my filly to grow up - so of course my hands are not as steady as I would like but they are getting better daily (now that I am back in steady riding lessons and yoga). So I found myself a brillant new dressage coach and I was very excited to give dressage lessons another crack, and the first thing out of her mouth was “hands lower” and I almost cried on the spot.

I will try to get some pictures from my lesson tomorrow - but I am always nervous posting pictures online because I am a heavy girl and I don’t enjoy getting flamed about my weight. I also asked my partner to video tape me so I can see what I look like - but I definitely won’t be posting that! LOL! :lol:

[Ysabel]

also, it might be your are perching a bit in your saddle… if you are sitting deeply in the saddle it is a lot easier to lower your hand.

No I don’t perch - even though my seat is weaker than normal from being out of work - I still sit pretty deep - of course we do all trot work posting at this point.

My other mare is SPOOKTACULAR - so she has prevented me from developing any perching tendacies - LOL - if I don’t sit deep on her I bite the dirt pretty fast - she keeps me on my toes. If there was an equestrian sport where horses were judged on their ability to over react and drop/spin at break-neck velocities - then she would win hands down every time. She is such a diva. :D:cool:

[mbm]

have you asked our traienr why they want your hands lower?

my experience is that some folks dont get how hard it is for us shorties to put hands low without it affecting our seats.

[Ysabel]

have you asked our traienr why they want your hands lower?

She said that young horses need to be ridden with lower and wider set hands because higher hands cause tension in the neck - which may be true if I could get my darn hands down there without hunching my back and/or leaning forward.

I guess I should note that the horse I am riding will be 4 in May so she is barely broke.

I just don’t want to start off lessons with a new coach by coming off as argumentative or as a whiner — I did mention that I have short arms and she said students say that all the time and then they end up being able to get there hands where they need to be with practice - but perhaps I need to take the time to show her just how freakishly short my arms are. To be honest she is Dutch and she scares me a little. But I REALLY REALLY like her so I don’t want to piss her off.

[AllWeatherGal]

I’ve got short arms, too, and for a long time didn’t think I could put them any lower.

Can you touch the withers while you ride w/out tipping? You may need to scoot a bit farther forward in the saddle (I was sitting too far back for most of my life)? And forward, I mean maybe less than an inch!

Hands lower … I finally just PUT them down. At first I stiffened my elbow (I was angry at the instructor for shouting at me!) and then I realized that yes … my arms did reach to the wither if I worked from the shoulder.

IMO it’s more important to have your hands in the right place with movement in your shoulder and elbow than perfect arm alignment. As you say, keep the arms near your sides, but spooktastic might have taught you tension that’s not helping you now.

Sit up straight. Put your hands on the pommel of the saddle. Move your seat forward in the saddle until you can reach. Breathe. Sit up straight. Relax your shoulders and elbows. Breathe. Sit up straight. Put your hands on the pommel. … Scoot your seat to the right place. (And oh, hips soft, too, with your abs flexed to support …)

Little by little you’re relearning what “good” feels like. And sometimes the change is as little as 1/8", even tho you’re getting yelled at for what seems like a yard of error.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=AllWeatherGal;4621846]

IMO it’s more important to have your hands in the right place with movement in your shoulder and elbow than perfect arm alignment.[/QUOTE]

this bit is not correct. vertical upper arm is the basis of correct contact. if you have your elbows disengaged from your core you lose your ability to have a soft giving hand and stable seat.

[quietann]

Well, I could say “if you’re short and/or have short arms, try a smaller horse” but that’s not terribly useful

I struggle with this too and after learning the “keep the hands low and wide” even though it meant my elbows were barely bent (and this on a small horse), it’s hard to overcome. I started with keeping my upper arms in alignment with my body; we are getting there, I feel your pain, and I really wish dressage as a discipline was kinder/more flexible about different body types!

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=mbm;4622274]
this bit is not correct. vertical upper arm is the basis of correct contact. if you have your elbows disengaged from your core you lose your ability to have a soft giving hand and stable seat.[/QUOTE]

Not quite sure of your meaning of “disengaged”.

Yes the upper arm should be vertical, but not"frozen" and the elbows must have “give” in order to absorb the movement of the body, say in sitting trot, so that the hands may stay soft, steady, and independent of the body. In order for all this to happen the shoulders also must remain supple.

Any stiffness or lack of give will result in unsteady hands.

[goeslikestink]

the arm is an extention of your hands- let me explain there is a what called a riders outline -there should be two lines schoulders -hip- heal and elbow through tthe hand to the horses mouth

a horse in the correct position can be spoilt by a sloppy looking rider the riders toes should be above the leve of the heel, with a relaxed ankle, its would be easy for the rider to push the toes upwards or pointing straight rather than pushing down tend to make the lower leg go forwardsand will create problems later on when learning to leg yield etc

once the rider has the corect position then its head up, or chin up and look forwards dont have the habit of looking down as this will defat the objective
and wont be looking where your going if you dont look then your hands cant follow through and neither can the horse

if ones tilting or leaning into the head then one is using the horses head/ bridle area to support there body weight

so one must learn to have balance - and work with an indendant seat of legs and hand

position is the key------ if ones not sitting centerally on the horse then ones not distributing there body weight evenly thus will hang onto the horses head
and grip for dear life then the horse complains as its uncomfy for them

in one instence your asking thehorse to go but are confusing him with the support of your body weight into his head and see intrepretates that as stop/go
so a confused signal to the horse

ask if you can go on the lunge and do some work without stirrups
as in walk and trot and mounted standing still like scissors, round the world,
pulling your legs into frog position or racing position whatever you want to call it

as most problems with tightness is lack of balance so you tend to tense up as to grip more so ,which effects your riding

so try doing things with out stirrups as this will help you learn to have an independant seat plus balance plus confidence plus

once you done the simpler exercises then you can move upto to working with out stirrups over ground poles an trot poles with out the lunge line attached

so start off with very simple exercises, like getting on getting off its all helps with relaxation, round the world clockwise and anti clockwise, half mounts, ie mount up lean right over said horse with both feet on one side then pull yoursellf up into sitting position thus do it both sides builds up your strenght to, also mount from the opposite side

another you can try - simple ones - if you have someone on the lunge ie a trianer or helper, then reach with right hand and touch left toe- dont pull foot upwards just move toes upwards and bend right down and touch your toe then repeat on opposite side
reach left hand touch horses right ear and visa versa
hold out one arm out stretched - then change hands to the other side

feeling brave hold out both arms and star burst - ie legs of only bum is holding you into the saddle and count to ten before you put your hands and legs back
repeat 4 times if braver

another simple exercise- arms out legs out and twist your body left then right
not the hips the body your turso - loo k left and right as you do it
legs arms back on the
all these simple exercises gain confindence and sticky bum glue
and help you to relax whe riding a horse but to begin with you do need someone with a bit of savvy so that they can control your horse for you on the lunge
play with your horse like this and it will make you less tense and will build a bond with him of trust

work on your seat area and this will help with your arms as its not so much as your arms but your balance and position

set yourself up correctly by altering your sitrrups to the correct lenght which is explain on my helpful links pages here
http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178116
also read all links as its all relevent on page 1 and read page 1

[egontoast]

it is possible that the trainer is right and that it is possible.

I would politely ask her to place you in the position she thinks you should be in.

I would halt the horse and say ‘please show me because I m having difficulty with this’.

[mbm]

just a quick note. what i have learned as i got “fluffier” is that the more “fluff” there is on the bones the less “deep” you can sit in the saddle and the further away your upper body becomes.

so, in effect 2 people with the exact same bone structure one thin, one fluffy - the thin one would be able to keep elbows at sides and touch withers, whereas the fluffier one would not be able to do this becuase of the extra padding getting in the way (thighs, bum, etc)

i have actually been really surprised how much extra “padding”: changes what used to be simple things… the entire center of gravity, balance point etc changes.

anyway, the point of all this is that the trainer may not understand that a non thin person might have difficulty doing as requested because of body type.

but. also, the deeper a rider can sit (even with padding) the lower their COG and the easier time you will have putting your hands low.

and, finally re: upper arms as part of seat - i didnt say brace. i said disengaged. a disengaged upper arm is one that isnt part of the seat.

and GLS has some great suggestions for lunge lessons! (they are my fave thing at the mo)

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=mbm;4622597]
just a quick note. what i have learned as i got “fluffier” is that the more “fluff” there is on the bones the less “deep” you can sit in the saddle and the further away your upper body becomes.

so, in effect 2 people with the exact same bone structure one thin, one fluffy - the thin one would be able to keep elbows at sides and touch withers, whereas the fluffier one would not be able to do this becuase of the extra padding getting in the way (thighs, bum, etc)

i have actually been really surprised how much extra “padding”: changes what used to be simple things… the entire center of gravity, balance point etc changes.

anyway, the point of all this is that the trainer may not understand that a non thin person might have difficulty doing as requested because of body type.

but. also, the deeper a rider can sit (even with padding) the lower their COG and the easier time you will have putting your hands low.

and, finally re: upper arms as part of seat - i didnt say brace. i said disengaged. a disengaged upper arm is one that isnt part of the seat.

and GLS has some great suggestions for lunge lessons! (they are my fave thing at the mo)[/QUOTE]

once you have your balance and you feel braver and can control your horse just by seat and legs then try 5 grid bounce fences with no stirrups and no reins lol
this will really sort you out if your in harmony with your horse makes you sit in and ride

[Velvet]

Oh, man, can I relate to this one! I have a long waist and shorter arms. I rode a young horse in front of one clinician a long time ago who had the same obsession as your instructor, and she also was blind to my body type. I tried, but would always tip forward or collapse my shoulders over to make her happy, then she would yell about that. You just can’t physically do it. I was lucky enough to have ridden with other instructors and better (internationally better) trainers than her who understood my body type. If I hadn’t already understood that I was built differently and could ride just as correctly with my hands slightly higher, I might have stayed frustrated. As it was, I wrote off the clinic rides as being taught by a person with an obvious OCD personality who could only bang one drum, and who was clueless about human anatomy.

Dump the instructor. You need someone to teach you who realizes all riders and their horses are built differently and have different natural abilities (and limitations). There are instructors out there who will help you become the best rider you can be, with your own physical conformation.

Trust me on this one. All the people out here saying you can fix a physical limitation by deepening your seat have not experienced the problem. It’s like telling a horse to learn how to make his neck two inches longer. Not gonna happen. And having this limitation is so minor. Yes, the seat work gives you the balance and control and quiets your hands. Yes, it is useful. But for your issue, you need to just keep a correct angle and contact. You too can do lower level and FEI work even with your “limitation.” :lol: (I’m laughing because it is not really a limitation at all.)

[goeslikestink]

op- lenghten your reins towards your stomach as the horse is atad to big maybe and has a longer neck line s keep the contact firm and light but just lengthen the reins slightly can alway adjust the rein length to suit the horse and you

so lengthen the riens hands together thumbs on top and towards your tummy
then you sould be more comfy

[mbm]

[QUOTE=goeslikestink;4622711]
once you have your balance and you feel braver and can control your horse just by seat and legs then try 5 grid bounce fences with no stirrups and no reins lol
this will really sort you out if your in harmony with your horse makes you sit in and ride[/QUOTE]

not sure if you are addressing me or not… but in case you are… i appreciate the suggestions… and while i don’t need any help in being brave and “controlling my horse” i am going to start jumping again and the idea of bounces and grids sounds super to me.

[slc2]

Try to work with someone else.

Sometimes, a rider with short arms needs to get on a horse with less motion, then his hands don’t go up and down as he tries to post to more motion (alternatively, many people can learn to poost less high to compensate for some of the motion)) and he doesn’t have to struggle to keep his hands down.

[Ridge_Runner]

Let me ask you this…kind of a different approach to the problem…if you are a small person…and it sounds as if you may be…what size horses are you trying to ride?

Why I ask…if you are petite and riding very large horses (as many dressage horses are today), it just might be that your proportions might just not match that of what you are trying to ride.