I prefer where Kareen positions herself for videos. Down at the right level and you can see the straightness of the legs…or not…across the diagonal (-:
[QUOTE=Crosiadore;7430094]
I prefer where Kareen positions herself for videos. Down at the right level and you can see the straightness of the legs…or not…across the diagonal (-:[/QUOTE]
A friend of the stallion station made the first video, the owner made the second one. It’s also a bit “customary” that the owners/riders sit at the far end of the Westfalen arena in one particular section. Hence a lot of the videos come from that view point when made by the owners vs spectators. But hey if folks prefer one camera angle to another I can remove the links I posted. No problem.
If you like Fashion Maker, seems that the Hanoverian Verband just licensed him too. http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2014/02/21/ten-stallions-approved-2014-rhinelanderhanoverian-stallion-licensing
[QUOTE=infiniti;7424575]
I think I just drooled… Follow Me is my new favourite[/QUOTE]
I just saw the video of Follow Me on the latest stallion show on ClipMyHorse. WOW! He has 3 solid gaits (at his test his scored a 10 for both walk and canter).
Furstenball seems to be a good choice if you want to lighten up a mare from heavier bloodlines.
Dan
How many Follow Me foals are there on the ground, approximately? I know he is young.
[QUOTE=Bugs-n-Frodo;7449144]
How many Follow Me foals are there on the ground, approximately? I know he is young.[/QUOTE]
I think I saw 3-4 foals on the Facebook page for the Stallion Station.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.388286211249694.88880.266619810083002&type=1
Linebreeding? Prepotency? Long term pros and cons… Enjoying the conversation here… my impressions have always been… if you play with fire, you will eventually get burnt… and with that said, what kind of longterm deficiencies will line breeding create?
IMO, there will be some deficiencies but it will take much more time and concentration to see the actual effects since it will take generations and in horses, that is much longer than dogs for example…
[QUOTE=Hocus Focus;7458839]
Linebreeding? Prepotency? Long term pros and cons… Enjoying the conversation here… my impressions have always been… if you play with fire, you will eventually get burnt… and with that said, what kind of longterm deficiencies will line breeding create?[/QUOTE]
Actually, you won’t necessarily get any drawbacks if done wisely and if registries address any possible genetic disease that springs up IMMEDIATELY (like the AQHA refused to do with Impressive and HYPP…it was known for over a decade that linebreeding to Impressive was the root of HYPP, yet AQHA did nothing).
With WBs and constant inspections this is unlikely to happen because breeding WBs is more “regulated” for lack of a better term. Genetic accidents may happen, but they are unlikely to go beyond a single foal.
That Arab mare whose pedigree I posted earlier in this thread had 44 crosses to Raffles. That means her genetics could possibly be 55% Raffles…a stallion who died some 60+ yrs ago. That is one of the powers of linebreeding: it keeps those good genetics up close and concentrated.
That particular mare was correct, strong, good-minded and kicked butt in competitive trail till the child who was riding her got too big (she was only 14.3hh, but that is not unusual for an Arab…they aren’t suppose to be real tall). Nothing wrong with her what so ever. She was a fine example of her breed: correct, hardy, smart, willing, athletic, good stamina.
If you have strong genetics you have strong genetics. Multiplying strong x strong will never give you weak. It may set a “type” or bring certain characteristics to the fore that you may not want…for instance, more Donnerhall could bring alot of heaviness…but as far as genetic weakness (either physical or mental), if there isn’t that in the genetics, doubling or tripling up is not going to create it.
You need either some sort of mutation or a recessive issue to have this stuff come out. Mutations (good & bad) DO happen…but that can happen in total outcrosses as well.
Recessive stuff (like HYPP) will show up fairly early, and (IMHO) with the prevalence of foal inspections, MPT and licensing in the WB world, it is unlikely to impact large numbers of stock.
It can be a powerful tool, but like any powerful tool, you can’t be hamfisted using it.
For instance: I revisited this thread because I was considering stallions for a mare with both Sandro Hit & Weltmeyer in her pedigree. Although I have no issues with triple Donnerhall, I would hesitate to double up on either SH or Weltmeyer. Both are prepotent stallions and both have tons of good qualities, but they also have 1-2 less than ideal qualities that I don’t feel would move the breeding forward.
I may be wrong, but as far as LB to either of these two, I will let another breeder take that risk.
Just an example…
Does Furstenball improve the neck & shoulders at all?
There are finally foals to look at from Finest
http://www.gestuet-wm.eu/news-2014.html
They look good :-). I have also heard that there are pregnancies from frozen (wish I knew the percentage).
Dan
I bred two mares the same day to Finest. The older “1999” Rubinstein mare is is foal the “younger” by two years Dormello mare was not. Go figure. Am most happy to have at least one Finest foal coming. Already have two Furstenball mares that are keepers, so I am a Furstenball fan. Am thinking I like Fursten Look even better. May need to try him this year 
[QUOTE=Dan;7921625]
There are finally foals to look at from Finest
http://www.gestuet-wm.eu/news-2014.html
They look good :-). I have also heard that there are pregnancies from frozen (wish I knew the percentage).
Dan[/QUOTE]
Two breeders in my area used Finest frozen; one x2 and on x1. Both got pregnancies 100% of the time.
I tried Follow Me x2…nada. Broke my heart, since I LOVE that stallion.
Fantastic frozen was also super successful to the local breeders and I saw a video of one of his foals posted on a FB page…and that foal had a trot that just blew my doors off!!
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7921671]
Two breeders in my area used Finest frozen; one x2 and on x1. Both got pregnancies 100% of the time.
I tried Follow Me x2…nada. Broke my heart, since I LOVE that stallion.
Fantastic frozen was also super successful to the local breeders and I saw a video of one of his foals posted on a FB page…and that foal had a trot that just blew my doors off!![/QUOTE]
thanks, sounds like Finest frozen works :-).
I suspect that Furstenball is just being used too often.
Nancy, the mare we are thinking about has Lauries Crusader xx in the bloodline already. Don’t want to double up on LC.
Dan
[QUOTE=Dan;7921780]
thanks, sounds like Finest frozen works :-).
Dan[/QUOTE]
I have a Finest coming too out of a Bugatti - Weltmeyer mare. One dose and one pregnancy in a maiden. Although I do know of one other (besides Nancy) that tried and did not get a pregnancy.
Did you go to the Warmblood Breeders Group on facebook? They had a poll on frozen this year, and there was data on Finest (not super but not awful frozen).
[QUOTE=Edgewood;7922194]
Did you go to the Warmblood Breeders Group on facebook? They had a poll on frozen this year, and there was data on Finest (not super but not awful frozen).[/QUOTE]
Thanks, we will check it out.
Dan
I need to ask Friends in Germany who it was, but am sure either Finest or Fantastic:
They could not get fresh for their mare. Stallion station said no problem - you come and pick up frozen. They did with no device for frozen, drove back to mare1 or 2 hour drive, inseminated - pregnant… Stallion owner said to them if he would not have been sure abou the frozen quality he would not have them made that trip.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7427040]
Sorry…this line is what gave me that impression. Would you be concerned with LBing to one of the other stallions?
Just curious as to why you prefer Follow Me to Fashion Maker; any particular reason?[/QUOTE]
While you didn’t ask me :-), I prefer Follow Me to Fashion Maker because the walk is better and Follow Me’s hindquarters go more naturally under him. FM’s hocks always seem to be working a bit behind him in the gaits.
I’ve been considering Furstenball, but also Finest. However, since I just bought a young horse, I’m going to give myself some time to see what Finest throws as a sire. I’d like to get away from so much Donnerhall (as my mare is a Diamond Hit), which is one of the reasons I like Finest a bit better…for the additional bloodline diversity.
I know some people don’t worry about linebreeding, but I can’t help but wonder, seeing some of the line bred horses my friends have, that they may be outstanding in movement, but they have not been as “hardy.” I think when you don’t have the vigor of introducing some different attributes, you CAN get some of the weaknesses too. Not everything passed along in more concentrated genetics is good. (Think of the Arab and QH genetic problems like Impressive Syndrome, etc.)
[QUOTE=Touchstone Farm;7931834]
While you didn’t ask me :-), I prefer Follow Me to Fashion Maker because the walk is better and Follow Me’s hindquarters go more naturally under him. FM’s hocks always seem to be working a bit behind him in the gaits.
I’ve been considering Furstenball, but also Finest. However, since I just bought a young horse, I’m going to give myself some time to see what Finest throws as a sire. I’d like to get away from so much Donnerhall (as my mare is a Diamond Hit), which is one of the reasons I like Finest a bit better…for the additional bloodline diversity.
I know some people don’t worry about linebreeding, but I can’t help but wonder, seeing some of the line bred horses my friends have, that they may be outstanding in movement, but they have not been as “hardy.” I think when you don’t have the vigor of introducing some different attributes, you CAN get some of the weaknesses too. Not everything passed along in more concentrated genetics is good. (Think of the Arab and QH genetic problems like Impressive Syndrome, etc.)[/QUOTE]
Count me as another Follow Me fan; maybe I will try him again at some point, but he broke my heart the last 2 times we tried, so I’m abit burned. And I will hate the first person who tells me they have a FM foal in the oven.
I know a bunch of people are liking Finest; his stud fee went up and brokers are selling ALOT of his frozen (which is great, I hear). And he’s being used to refine (that tiny head!!)…but I wonder if he will produce like that. After all, he has Weltmeyer not too far back, and he was “old style” AND prepotent.
I like him though and can’t wait to see how his get mature.
I think I am going to try Fantastic instead; same owners. He also has Welty in the same generation, but instead of Donnerhall you have alot the trusty F & R line, then Sandro Hit on the bottom.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10888152
I will be using a mare (my recent freebie), who is Donnerhall, albeit pretty far back. She also has some sturdy blood (Werther) and she herself is built like the proverbial outhouse.
That’s one reason I wanted to try Fantastic other than Finest, but I’m not sure I will gain much in terms of “modern type”, but I think there willl be a super nice riding horse o/o the deal.
The pictures of the Finest foal look amazing!!! His type is certainly being passed along. In person he is probably one of the prettiest horses I have ever seen. Another stallion that seems to through a lot of pretty is Franzikus. You can pick out everyone of his foals at the yard where he is at.
