Id like to hear your opinions on gag bits and if you think they have a place in the hunter/jumper/eventing world.
I recently did clinic with Greg Best and he had me ride my horse in a single joint gag with only one rein???
Coming back home from the clinic I am definitely going to use two reins if at all.
Anyways, do or have you used a gag on your horse before?
And what do you have to say about them? I have heard people say that they love them and that they have done so much for their horses and Ive also heard people who said they would never even think about using one.
Opinions?
I tend to ride in the bit that works best for my horse. If the bit worked in the clinic, why wouldn’t you keep riding in it? Did Greg Best tell you why he recommended this bit over what you were using before?
Personally, I prefer to use two reins on a bit that allows it so that I can reserve the leverage for when it’s needed – if you can handle two reins that sounds like a good plan. You may find that you can ride mostly off the snaffle rein but that it’s nice to have the extra control for some situations. I don’t ride in a gag and have never had a horse that needed one/liked one, but I’ve certainly used pelhams with two reins.
How a horse reacts to the pressure in his mouth depends on the size of his tongue, whether he has a low palate, or whether the horse likes/dislikes pressure on his tongue, bars, poll, etc. The trick is to find a bit that works with how your horse responds best.
For example, I ride my TB in an Micklem short shank (no nose rope, very little leverage). Someone on this board told me that anyone who had to resort to a Micklem bit should find a sport that didn’t involve animals.:o Since my horse has told me quite clearly that he likes this bit best, I decided to listen to him rather than ride him while he tries to spit his snaffle out of his mouth :lol:. He particularly dislikes double jointed bits which are supposed to drape more comfortably in a horse’s mouth. Too bad he didn’t read the marketing literature.
I had another horse that did best in a side-pull bridle – no bit. And my draft x goes in a PeeWee snaffle or a Neue Schule Demi-Anky.
People have very set ideas about what is a “proper” bit but unless you are competing in a discipline where a certain type of bit is mandated (like dressage) I think you should use what works.
My goal is to use the least amount of bit necessary (and yes, training plays a big part) but I’d much prefer to have a bit that I can use with finesse than be tugging at my horse’s mouth all the time.
Like all tools, it can be useful or harmful. You wouldn’t use a screwdriver to hammer a nail…etc, etc
I do only use them with two reins though
Yes, I have used a gag.
It is a very useful tool for working through certain kinds of resistance.
Personally, I have always used it with two reins, but I would not have a major objection to using it with one rein for a focused set of exercises.
I tend to see it as a tool for working through an issue, rather than as a long-term/permanent bitting choice.
Since it doubles the effect of your hand, it should only be used by riders who do not “hang” on the reins. You need to be able to ride with a very light hand.
It definitely has a place in eventing and jumpers, and I think it also has a place in the training of hunters, tough obviously not IN the hunter ring.
I attended a Greg Best clinic many years go, and he did the same thing with another rider in my group. The improvement was almost unbelievable.
Mike Huber recommended a gag bit for one of my mares who was very low on her forehand and tended to get quick and heavy. I used to joke that this mare was on the “bit of the month club” because no matter what bit I tried she would object. The gag bit worked wonders, and I only use one rein. She tends to object to anything complicated in her mouth, which is one reason I think she likes the gag; it applies pressure on her poll, not her mouth.
What is most interesting to me is when I have taken the reins off the gag and used the bit as a fat snaffle she isn’t nearly as rideable. She has become so rideable that I rarely need to rely on rein pressure at all anymore. We even hunt in the gag bit and she’s a happy camper.
I respect Greg, so if he recommended it I would definitely give it a try. Worse case scenario you can always switch bits.
Mike Huber recommended a gag bit for one of my mares who was very low on her forehand and tended to get quick and heavy. I used to joke that this mare was on the “bit of the month club” because no matter what bit I tried she would object. The gag bit worked wonders, and I only use one rein. She tends to object to anything complicated in her mouth, which is one reason I think she likes the gag; it applies pressure on her poll, not her mouth.
What is most interesting to me is when I have taken the reins off the gag and used the bit as a fat snaffle she isn’t nearly as rideable. She has become so rideable that I rarely need to rely on rein pressure at all anymore. We even hunt in the gag bit and she’s a happy camper.
I respect Greg, so if he recommended it I would definitely give it a try. Worse case scenario you can always switch bits.
What was the issue that GB was changing the bit for?
Lots of people use various types of gags for various reasons. Bits in general should be chosen to suit the needs of a particular horse and/or rider.
Some bit changes/configurations are made as a part of a horses training program, and only used temporarily for a particular correction.
Elevator/Dutch type gag bits are often seen in the jumper ring as they can be the right bit for certain horses that can get strong and heavy. The lifting and “attention getting” action of the elevator can help some horses sit back and balance. But on a different horse the same bit action may result in the horse curling his head behind the bit and interfering with the horses balance.
So a gag of any kind may have a different effect on each individual horse.
I like a rope gag with two reins for teaching certain horses to not run through the snaffle. But it’s the riders ability to use the bit for a purpose that matters, and not the bit itself that’s doing the training.
I find that harsh bits in inexperienced hands can exacerbate the very issues that harsh bits are sometimes chosen to correct, and a gag has the potential to be a very harsh bit.
If a rider can’t ride with independent aids and use their reins with feeling and purpose, that’s an issue for the rider to work on, and although I am aware of trainers “bitting up” horses to accommodate certain rider abilities, that’s not always going to be the best approach to teaching a student, unless there’s some understanding of the reason for the bit change, and the bit chosen.
My opinion with Gags is that they are either training tools, or the end result bit chosen, after eliminating some of the less severe options under educated use/supervision.
The question of one rein or two has a default answer of “always use two reins with a gag”, unless the rider/trainer are educated enough to understand exactly why only one rein, or one rein/bit connector combination, should be preferable.
The action and purpose of any bit used should be understood.
e.g.
A three ring gag with only a snaffle rein connected may act somewhat similar to a Baucher bit. A Baucher bit is sometimes preferred by horses who are more sensitive to bit movement in their mouths. The action of the Baucher is such that the fixed cheek ring allows the bit to “hang still” and remain more steady in the mouth of the horse, some horses find that sence of steadiness to be reassuring, and it allows them to trust more fully and listen to a riders aids.
Some may say that a Baucher bit has a mild gag action to it, some may say it does not.
But a Baucher bit might be a logical bit to try in the progression up to a three ring gag, as the gag may provide the result the rider is looking for, but is the improvement due to the steadiness provided by the fixed cheek ring, or the gag effect?
An unstable bit may cause a certain horse to become more excitable and therefor make a rider think about the Gag, but if a lack of bit steadiness is the true cause of the excitement, the milder less complex Baucher may be the preferred solution.
But that Baucher step might be overlooked by some riders or trainers who are unfamiliar with the Baucher.
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I typically prefer a gag to a ring bit when needing more brakes. I prefer to use them with two reins (Though have had some big, strong horses that just didn’t need the softer touch of the snaffle rein…they needed BRAKES). I am always more likely to go to something like a gag or pelham (or, occasionally, a ring bit) than to go to something sharp, like a bit with a twist of any sort.
My horse did spend some time in a gag (with two reins. He was strong but sensitive, so I rode mostly with the snaffle rein and a little on the gag rein). It got us over a particular bitting hurdle, and now he’s back in a snaffle. I wouldn’t hesitate to try different bits as the need arises, including a gag.
And, really, Greg Best is one of the best (see what I did there?!). I would at least experiment with his suggestions.
Thank you all for the wise words!
For those of you wanting to know… My horse, Wellington, is a strong and has a habit of sort of running straight down into the bit. And mouth sensitivity is not an issue for him… So You can definitely see why greg wanted him in the gag.
My issue with it is that you can just tell how much he hates that thing!! And im not sure if that hate is coming from the severity of the bit or him just being frustrated that he cant get his head down low and pull. Either way, he is just so fussy and unhappy!
It has been pretty effective at lifting his shoulder and helping slow him down though so there definitely are some things that I like about the gag.
Ill try it with two reins and see if it makes a difference.
Just a fun little side note… Greg actually got on and rode Wellington and even jumped him around some little jumps!!! How cool is that?!
Not to hyjack OP, but I do have a gag related question. Since a gag acts on the horse’s poll, would using a bridle with a padded/monocrown reduce the severity of the bit?
[QUOTE=Vanessaj;7744002]
Thank you all for the wise words!
For those of you wanting to know… My horse, Wellington, is a strong and has a habit of sort of running straight down into the bit. And mouth sensitivity is not an issue for him… So You can definitely see why greg wanted him in the gag.
My issue with it is that you can just tell how much he hates that thing!! And im not sure if that hate is coming from the severity of the bit or him just being frustrated that he cant get his head down low and pull. Either way, he is just so fussy and unhappy!
It has been pretty effective at lifting his shoulder and helping slow him down though so there definitely are some things that I like about the gag.
Ill try it with two reins and see if it makes a difference.
Just a fun little side note… Greg actually got on and rode Wellington and even jumped him around some little jumps!!! How cool is that?![/QUOTE]
If you’d like, tell us what you were riding Wellington in before, and which gag bit Greg had you switch too.
Describe the bits in detail, and post links to them if possible.
When does Wellington get strong during your ride?
How does Wellington behave on the flat, how advanced is your flatwork, and are there any problems with him getting heavy when flatting?
How have you been dealing with this heaviness in the past, before the bit change?
You said Greg rode Wellingtion. How well did Wellington go for Greg? If Wellington went better for Greg than for you, what might you say Greg was doing differently that made the most improvement?
[QUOTE=pacific_jumper;7744028]
Not to hyjack OP, but I do have a gag related question. Since a gag acts on the horse’s poll, would using a bridle with a padded/monocrown reduce the severity of the bit?[/QUOTE]
Interesting question.
I can give you a speculative opinion.
The primary effect of the gag is the upward force that the gag action applies against the horses lips/mouth.
The padded crown piece is not going to reduce the severity of the gag effect on the horses mouth, but what it may do is change how the horse senses the poll pressure that the gag creates.
This may or may not change the way the horse responds to the gag, as it would depend on the horse, and how much the component of the poll pressure factors into how the particular horse reacts to any particular gag configuration.
i.e.
If the horse is hard mouthed but hates poll pressure, the padded crown piece may render the gag bit less effective on that particular horse.
I think you should give Greg’s suggestion at least the old college try, say six or eight weeks, before you decide to reject it. He is fantastic and why pay all that money to do a clinic with one of the best trainers out there if you are immediately going to reject his suggestion? Seems like a waste.
I don’t normally ride in a gag with one rein but I have. If Greg Best told me to, I would sure give it more than a ride or two before deciding to do something else!
One horse I rode went absolutely amazing in a gag. Another hated it with a passion.
Give it a try. If it doesn’t work for your horse, then take it off and try something else.
When I need more bit, I first go to bits with more/different action before going to harsher mouths. I’d rather try a plain ol’ gag than go to a corkscrew.
I rode my horse in a gag for a while, when he was younger.
He was a very big, very strong horse, who was inclined to lean on the forehand, and “root” down, to pull the rider out of the saddle. The gag helped him learn to elevate and balance, develop the muscles to carry himself, and made him much more rideable. I did use just 1 rein, and it worked out very well, but I’d like to think I have a sensitive hand and good “feeling” for my horse.
I later switched to a french link loose ring elevator bit. My horse carried himself very well and was very light, round and adjustable.
Like anything it depends on the particular horse and rider. For my horse and for me it was a valuable tool.
I’m with the go with what the horse responds to best group. And for different riders, that might actually be different bits. Give the gag a try as prescribed by Greg Best. After all, any bit, even a regular snaffle can be harsh in the wrong hands.
I use a gag bit with two reins on my horse when we trail ride. He’s a very spooky horse and tends to bolt when he gets scared. However, reading this thread makes me wonder if a different bit would work better. He isn’t a strong horse, nor does he lean on the forehand. What he does when to bolts is he tends to take the bit.
I love gags because you can address a horse that gets strong without moving into a harsh mouthpiece. I have one that I like to hack on the gag rope only and jump only on the snaffle ring. Ironically, I’ve been embarrassed about using just one rein so I just ordered a curb rein for appearance’s sake for a Greg Best clinic next weekend. Greg is known for being excellent at problem solving, particularly with bits. I would give whatever he recommended the old college try. The nice thing about gags is that you can mess with the mouthpiece until you’re happy.
From a mechanical perspective, when you pull on the gag rein, you shorten the distance between the poll and the mouthpiece of the bit.
Therefore you put pressure on BOTH the poll and the corners of the lips.
Using a padded crownpiece would spread out the pressure on the poll, over a larger area. But the total amount of pressure would be the same.
Horses tend to respond more to the lip pressure than the poll pressure. Padding the crownpice would just make that more so.
I think you mean a Mikmar. My old horse went in one for a while and went very well in it. It looks rough but some horses really like it!
