Game over…let’s move on.
This is why many pros limits access to their sales horses to people who ride with a trainer.
I’ve had the same experience with buyers WITH trainers.
I am sorry about your horses not being sold… but having a trainer isn’t always the answer. When I was selling my horse people who came with trainer’s were often the most annoying
I Agree
Yes I agree that having a trainer does not mean they are for real but, at least it’s a step for many…
No sale. Why?? he has a scar on his ankle and she wanted the vet to say that it would never bother him at 4’6. The vet said that it does not bother him now at 3’6 but, can’t predict the future. She says that unless the vet says for sure he’ll be fine she can’t buy him. Vet says it’s not for him to say if the horse will be able to perform at that level and again says he’s not going to guarantee anything on a 4 yr. old. No Sale
I hate to say it, but people are nuts with our without trainers. I’ve had very wacky things happen regardless of professional involvement in the deals.
[QUOTE=SteeleRdr;2867078]
I’ve had the same experience with buyers WITH trainers.[/QUOTE]
Of course you have, but I do have to agree with the OP that buyers without trainers are much more likely to be tire-kickers than those with trainers. Trainers provide the client with realistic goals and ideas about what they can find within their budget and expectations, whereas those without frequently don’t have a clue.
Yes
and in my case you are totally correct…even down to what to expect from the vet for case 2. I spent a good hour on the phone with the lady…which would be fine if she were reliable. One should know their finances before tying up a horse sale. I had been putting off another perspective buyer who I hope is still interested! I guess I’m just to naive at times trying to help people.
Having a trainer in those people’s cases may also not have made a hill of beans difference on their decisions.
I understand your frustration…amateurs selling their own horses have similar frustrations, trust me, but I’ve never blamed a non-sale on whether or not someone had a trainer or not. Never even entered my mind. Could those people have been more considerate of you? Sure, but this is the horse world, and it’s full of inconsiderate people. 
I believe that having a trainer would (could) have put more perspective into whether horse 1 would be ok for the lady (not a question a vet can answer) and in the case of horse 2 a budget would have been considered including the things she was unaware of ie…vet costs, insurance, etc…things she never even thought about until after the fact but, wanted.
[QUOTE=SSFLandon;2867114]
I believe that having a trainer would (could) have put more perspective into whether horse 1 would be ok for the lady (not a question a vet can answer) and in the case of horse 2 a budget would have been considered including the things she was unaware of ie…vet costs, insurance, etc…things she never even thought about until after the fact but, wanted.[/QUOTE]
True, but those same people could have totally ignored what their trainer told them. I’m sure you have clients who do that on occasion. I’m not trying to argue…I’m just saying having a trainer is no guarantee of a buyer buying. I’ll give you a recent example: a trainer friend of mine has a nice horse for sale, which the buyer’s trainer loved for the student and really encouraged the student to buy. They tried him for a week, and he was a good boy for them. Did the student buy him? Nope. The trainer and seller both wanted to pull their hair out.
I’m not saying having a trainer is a sure win but, I am saying that it does provide help…and of course not all sales go through but, again…help does help! Also, on the flipside it’s dumb for many of these people just to buy horses when they have no clue…both mine are nice legit horses but, as we both know there are many out there that are not and are even dangerous. Pro’s exist for a reason…I am not going to deal with buyers unless they can prove in some way they are capable or have a trainer. I’ll have to ask more questions about them. I’m not desperate to sell my horses and I’m over wasting my time…these 2 are not the only times I’ve wasted.
Not everyone who shops w/o a trainer is a whack job. Not everyone who shops with a trainer is a dream to deal with. In some cases, the ones shopping with trainer might not be tire kickers just by virtue of the fact that they have convinced the trainer to spend a few hours of their time looking at horses. IOW, your odds are probably better dealing with ones that come with trainers.
I was shopping on my own to buy a horse 20 years ago. Horse was advertised in the Horse Trader so was on the open market. Still, the sellers were a bit freaked out by a person who came and tried the horse without a trainer. I was told upfront that the price did not include commissions. (was I supposed to pay myself one???) I put a deposit on the horse with three contingencies: one dressage trainer, one HJ trainer, and a vet check. Assured them that I would pay the trainers (and the vet, so why should it be different) for their time. Horse passed all three. I called to close the deal and they wouldn’t call me back. They were still apparently freaked out by this person operating solo. Were they afraid that the two trainers were going to come after them for a commission? Finally, in desperation, I called one of the trainers for help, he called them, closed the deal, and called me back to say what I owed and to tell me that I owed him a dinner for the phone call:D.
Note - I did all the legwork and phone work on this purchase myself, including other horses that I had called on and looked at. Please don’t tell me I owed someone a commission. I rode with both people on a very regular, but a la carte, basis.
A dinner sounds fair…you don’t own anyone but, that is between you and the person (trainer) you asked for help. Going to the other thread on this subject it’s important to have these things clarified.
The people had a right to be freaked out…in this world people sue and do all kinds of crazy things. At least with a third party involved it’s more likely everyone will stay on the same page…and that is my opinion.
If I was paying a ‘‘mid 5 figure sum’’ for a horse, I would want it to be able to definitely jump the height I want it to, not just possibly, for that amount of money. But, I can see where you’re coming from. As the vet has said it is possible the horse may/may not be able to, I personally wouldn’t risk spending a considerable amount of money on a horse that may, or may not be able to jump the height I want it to. Just my opinion, though 
[quote=downpour;2867196]If I was paying a ‘‘mid 5 figure sum’’ for a horse, I would want it to be able to definitely jump the height I want it to, not just possibly, for that amount of money. But, I can see where you’re coming from. As the vet has said it is possible the horse may/may not be able to, I personally wouldn’t risk spending a considerable amount of money on a horse that may, or may not be able to jump the height I want it to. Just my opinion, though
[/quote]
To clarify, the vet could not tell her any young horse could hold up to 4’6. My horse was fine and is fine now. There is no vet that is going to risk telling something they know nothing about (they are not trainers so they can’t predict ability). Along with vetting the horse for her he is my vet and she released all the info to me which was nice. He told me that he would not tell anyone that a horse will hold up to that kind of stress…when it’s only 4 now. I would have had no problem selling the horse to anyone one of my clients. When buying any young horse you are taking a risk and one that vet’s perfect is a good start…a scar to me is not a influential factor if it does not effect the joint or any other pertinent area. I would have not purchased (and imported) the horse if the German vet or my vet had a concern about his future concerning the scar.
[QUOTE=SSFLandon;2867219]
To clarify, the vet could not tell her any young horse could hold up to 4’6. My horse was fine and is fine now. There is no vet that is going to risk telling something they know nothing about (they are not trainers so they can’t predict ability). Along with vetting the horse for her he is my vet and she released all the info to me which was nice. He told me that he would not tell anyone that a horse will hold up to that kind of stress…when it’s only 4 now. I would have had no problem selling the horse to anyone one of my clients. When buying any young horse you are taking a risk and one that vet’s perfect is a good start…a scar to me is not a influential factor if it does not effect the joint or any other pertinent area. I would have not purchased (and imported) the horse if the German vet or my vet had a concern about his future concerning the scar.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that. Just because a horse has a scar, doesn’t mean it can’t still compete competitively, and as the horse in question is only 4, the scar will probably become less noticeable as it becomes older and heals further, if she is worried about aesthetics also.
When people inquire about our sales ponies, I tell them upfront–IF a trainer is involved in any way with the sale–then I want to deal with the trainer. Because as annoying as your incidents, are the folks that come alone to try, then suddenly halfway thru the dealing–want to involve a trainer. Which NEVER works out because the trainer wants something entirely different that the mom has picked out.
We don’t do business with amateurs anymore. The only time I’ve ever had a problem selling a horse is when dealing with an ammy.
I have found that with or without a trainer, people can be difficult. Trainers can waste your time the same way an amateur can. Some of you are saying that you refuse to show a horse without a trainer…well that’s your choice but not good business sense. In every job, no matter what business you work in, you deal with people that you don’t necessarily want to deal with but you do it…because that’s your job. So, if the worst thing you can say about your job is that you had to deal with someone who wasted your time then you have it pretty easy. In the end, being patient, helpful and nice might earn you more business and not to mention money.
There are definitely people out there that need a trainer to help them make every decision and then there are the amateurs out there that know just as much or more than a trainer so why pay someone to help them find a horse when they are perfectly capable of going through the process on their own. Being an amateur doesn’t automatically make you unable to make an intelligent decision.
I know it is frustrating and disappointing to deal with an annoying person and then not even get the horse sold in the end but that’s life and that’s the business of selling horses!
