Games Trainers Play: The Florida Horse Saga

[lcw579]

That poor poor horse.

Now he’s screwed up and she doesn’t want him back??? :mad: Someone needs to slap this girl. I no longer feel sorry for her. Any person who can be so cavalier about the well being of an animal that they are responsible for is not deserving of pity. Doesn’t she have any affection at all for this poor horse? She has made nothing but bad decisions on his behalf and now when she hears that things are not going well for him and he is “screwed up” her reaction is to essentially just wash her hands of the whole mess!!! My guess is she’s going to settle for whatever pittance they decide to give her and to hell with the poor horse. At this point I am almost hoping that they have run off with the horse - she doesn’t deserve him or the money. :mad: Okay end of rant.

Glad she’s not my friend - doesn’t seem to be the sort you can count on when the going gets rough.

[goeslikestink]

maybe look at results page for shows that will tell you aswell

4h is pony type thing she might be a member

dont let your freind just lye on her back and give up her horse for free
shes not dead yet and there things she can do

1-- if they have spent so much money on a vets for this and that then its easy to ask which one-- and high tail it down there for the next one due
be there and get the money there and then no excuses just go

[JustJump]

Brother. This horse sounds pretty close to being ABO (abandoned by owner).

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=lcw579;2922991]
That poor poor horse.

Now he’s screwed up and she doesn’t want him back??? :mad: Someone needs to slap this girl. I no longer feel sorry for her. Any person who can be so cavalier about the well being of an animal that they are responsible for is not deserving of pity. Doesn’t she have any affection at all for this poor horse? She has made nothing but bad decisions on his behalf and now when she hears that things are not going well for him and he is “screwed up” her reaction is to essentially just wash her hands of the whole mess!!! My guess is she’s going to settle for whatever pittance they decide to give her and to hell with the poor horse. At this point I am almost hoping that they have run off with the horse - she doesn’t deserve him or the money. :mad: Okay end of rant.

Glad she’s not my friend - doesn’t seem to be the sort you can count on when the going gets rough.[/QUOTE]

no - shes been used and put in that position-- she hasnt the money to have him back or retrian him- its not that she desnt care as such its how she been treated she relayed on her trianer 1 – they have con her out of this horse – the horse in question will be fine as it has a home just not in florida why do i say that

[WindWillowStable]

Epona, I think you have done all you could do. You tried to help your friend but obviously she doesn’t want help from anyone – especially from some mostly knowledgeable horse people on COTH and to all the COTHers, we have done all we could do. Maybe if she would of read past page 2 then she would have had the money a long time ago and at the least had the horse back (not that she cares) and some more common sense. Some people will never learn and this type of situation will happen over and over again throughout their life!

[WindWillowStable]

[QUOTE=lcw579;2922991]
That poor poor horse.

Now he’s screwed up and she doesn’t want him back??? :mad: Someone needs to slap this girl. I no longer feel sorry for her. Any person who can be so cavalier about the well being of an animal that they are responsible for is not deserving of pity. Doesn’t she have any affection at all for this poor horse? She has made nothing but bad decisions on his behalf and now when she hears that things are not going well for him and he is “screwed up” her reaction is to essentially just wash her hands of the whole mess!!! My guess is she’s going to settle for whatever pittance they decide to give her and to hell with the poor horse. At this point I am almost hoping that they have run off with the horse - she doesn’t deserve him or the money. :mad: Okay end of rant.

Glad she’s not my friend - doesn’t seem to be the sort you can count on when the going gets rough.[/QUOTE]

I agree, there are other options than just washing your hands of the horse. I’m sure someone reading this thread right now is horseless and would be happy to take the horse on to get it going again and then help the girl get it sold but this probably won’t happen because she doesn’t care about the horses happiness.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=eponacowgirl;2918404]
Alright, FL people- my friend is offically very worried about the horse.

He’s located in Winter Haven, FL, which appears to be south of Kissimie and east of Tampa.

Anyone who might be willing or able to make a go-see, please drop me a PM or email at lauren dot romanelli at gmail dot com

Name was changed from “Long Island T” to “Iced T” (as far as we know). Bay TB gelding. I can find and give pics if needed.

ETA: My friend called her trainer in IL- trainer was furious with daughter and told my friend she would have never set her up with them if she’d known this was going to happen. Promised to call daughter and see if she could find out what was going on.

I checked equine.com and dreamhorse for bay TB geldings fitting his description and didn’t find any matches- anyone else want to look too?[/QUOTE]

heres why---- they havent got him hes been sold already-- and the trianer as op said wont tell them where hes showing

me thinks as they change his name –

the money they say they have spent is a rouse— so the horse will either end up dead not in real life as his names changed - which means they have reigistered him under soemthing totally diffrent to whats been said
and or hhorsehas problems and needs this this and this so dirt cheap
or needs training becuase he was a pita horse and started bucking none of ther statements are the truth

and trianer 1 known all along-- its not the girls fualt shes naive-- some people have learning diffiulcites and can be bright and go to uni whatever and become doctors or what not
some people can be backwards in comming forwards what looks ok to one as normal or looks dodgy can also look impressive and young people and noivce people with out much horse knowledge are easy pickings-- its not there fualt or in this case the girls fault
the crows have taken this girl in-- hook line and sinker she thought she was doing the right thing and still holds with that impressive - fat chq at the end becuase her trianer 1 has told her so-- she still belives whatever bs this trianer is wrapping her up in
as she beleives this trianer knows what they are doing and becuase this trianer is a trianer shes superior being and holds that beleif to her freind op good knowledge and care of her
mate

all the op poster can do is be there to pick up the pieces of her freind as this is going to get worse the horse has gone i have no doubt i my mind now she will never see him or her money and trianer 1 will get away with it yet again as a nice little earner
to me i have no doubt in my mind that trianer 1 who gave the girl the clinet is well in on this scam and has already been paid for it — horse is lost but will have a decent home so dont worry

and some one posted earlier that the horse cross the state line so its illegal –
and as to the check thats going to bounce- shes will recieve no money

the only thing she can do is to go to the police as fruad by deception a criminal offence and tell them the whole truth go with papers and tell them about trianer 1 she might not get her horse back she might not get any monies back but will she will do is protect another poor sole have having it happen to them so go tell her story to the lcoal sheriff
and dob in the trinaer1 and her scaming collesgues

and the best advice is to tell her to go to her parentst and admit she made a huge mistake and she has learnt from her lesson-- they all they want they havent wash there hands of her they want her to leanr by the mistake she made if she fgoes home and admis it they will help her in more ways than she thinks
after all she flesh and blood and her parents have put here thorough an education system so far up until she got the horse – they only want her to learn whats right and wrong and sometimes you cant tell people they have made a mistake they have to learn that they have – but the education side of a mistake – is to learn not to do it again-- tell her to go home and put her hands up and admit she was wrong – her parents are her guidance they will help her

the horse is fine-- garantee it – but your mate had been done over - no moeny no horse and i said that right from the start your trianer 1 traner 2 plus bogus family have done her over like a kipper

[SaraTx]

at this point i think the horse is better off in FL.

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=JustJump;2923001]
Brother. This horse sounds pretty close to being ABO (abandoned by owner).[/QUOTE]

Oh, man, brilliant. If I was the buyer and sniffed that out I wouldn’t pay ANYTHING, I’d say come and get him and if you don’t get him in 24 hours (they won’t be as nice to her as she was to them) your board bill meter starts ticking. I betcha I could get her to say just keep him, because now she’s looking at $$$ to haul him back to KY, board bills, vet bills, farrier bills - none of which she has plus she doesn’t want the horse.

And from posts in the first couple pages of this thread, it looks like this is a regular FL scam as several people (greystonefarm and jonquilTN) had this exact scam tried on them but they didn’t fall for it.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;2923097]
Oh, man, brilliant. If I was the buyer and sniffed that out I wouldn’t pay ANYTHING, I’d say come and get him and if you don’t get him in 24 hours (they won’t be as nice to her as she was to them) your board bill meter starts ticking. I betcha I could get her to say just keep him, because now she’s looking at $$$ to haul him back to KY, board bills, vet bills, farrier bills - none of which she has plus she doesn’t want the horse.

And from posts in the first couple pages of this thread, it looks like this is a regular FL scam as several people (greystonefarm and jonquilTN) had this exact scam tried on them but they didn’t fall for it.[/QUOTE]

dune like a kipper scam 2

[RegentLion]

I am so sick of people being idiots. We all make mistakes but part of learning from our mistakes is putting them right if possible… right???

I don’t even care to try and figure out what the OP’s friend is thinking/feeling/whatever.

I am going to guess however that given the savvy nature of the PROSPETIVE buyer (AND their trainer) that…

1. The horse has been fine, not refusing, etc, and that statement was a bargaining tool to lower an already low(er) price tag

2. Something about the email they sent to OP’s friend struck me as they were implying that this TB was going to have lameness problems (as they needed a vet that specializes in TB lameness) and thusly that they will find SOMETHING wrong with the horse, again to bargin and lower the price.

3. They’ll talk about what they “invested” and suggest that those expenses too be deducted from the purchase price.

I wonder if the family had the $$$ to pay the full asking price or if they are shopping out of their price range adn are trying to get the horse into their price tag, or else they’re going to find the bargain of the year and then flip the horse for $.

It just doesn’t make sense to keep a horse that “keeps refusing and bucking.”

Also that it is a 4H show doesn’t mean the family doesn’t have money, but we aren’t talking an A circuit hunter here either. I’m going to guess that the family doesn’t want to spend any $ at all and this is an elaborate ruse to get a good horse for super cheap, or be able to use one for a while, super cheap.

And they definately found a sucker to walk on.

[sidepasser]

Sorry to hear that the girl has basically said she doesn’t want the horse back now that “he’s messed up”. I feel for you as I know you are a concerned friend and now you can’t do anything to help, though you have offered. Heck half the board it seems has offered.

I’d go get him and pasture board him for her just to get him to a safe place (I would feed him and hay him too - lol), but it appears that your friend just wants the money and to be rid of the problem that the poor horse has become. Definitely not your fault. I guess the folks down in Florida that have the horse have now got themselves a really nice old boy for whatever they want to pay.

It’s funny - (in a sad way) that so many offered to go check on the horse, haul the horse, board the horse, etc. and the girl didn’t want squat to do with it. Me…I’d have hitchhiked down there to see about my horse…

Course I am also the one that went and bought back my son’s TB and felt really horrible because I was LIED to about who bought him (and I did go to the place, meet the people, checked out the facility, etc. BEFORE selling them the mare…which THEY PROMPTLY FLIPPED THE SAME DAY TO ANOTHER PERSON and THAT PERSON decided if they were moving, the horse really didn’t need hay, grass, vet care, farrier care). Even trying, sometimes we GOOF up…but Lord have mercy…this particular sad tale is like a never ending comedy of tragic errors with no end except the horse is being ridden in Florida and the owner may or may not get paid.

I hope she gets her money. But you know what I also think? I think this horse is just fine and dandy down there in Florida, I doubt seriously about the “bucking” etc…

I figure the buyer’s found a sheep to fleece and have shorn their sheep and are now weighing the fleece to see how much they can get for it…in other words…I think the horse is probably just FINE…and they have connived to make the owner feel like the horse is “not as represented, a bucker, etc.” so that they can offer whatever they want and she will take it. I also think that the vetting will show that the horse is “off” somehow and thereby lower the price some more. I feel very badly for the owner because the owner does need the money, but then again, here is another of life’s lessons. In case the owner ever buys another horse and decides to sell, in a nutshell - here’s the scoop:

1. Never let a horse go anywhere without insurance, a written contract, and someone close by who can check on said beast, references from a licensed vet and farrier, and a deposit in the form of a cashier’s check or certified bank check that you can promptly put in your bank account.

2. If you let a horse go somewhere, have the ability to go fetch your horse back if the deal goes south. If you can’t fetch the horse back on your own…then the horse does not travel.

3. Check up on the references. You would be surprised at how many people get references and NEVER bother to check them…sigh…how do I know? I have provided references to sellers and then later asked my vet and farrier if X called and was told no, when I inquired with the seller, was told “oh you gave the references, they must be good”…AAACCCCKKKK, what if I made them up? CHECK REFERENCES~~~

4. Never be in such a bind that you cannot afford to just give the horse to someone rather than be desperate enough to sell. If you are in such a bind that you must have cash, then you are thinking with the pocketbook instead of what’s best for the horse. Perhaps another way to look at that is a horse is not what a person needs (according to my son, who just chimed in and said: “if a person needs money so bad that their horse ends up in a bad place, then they shouldn’t have a horse to begin with - just save their money”. Very astute for a 17 year old.

OP - you have been a good friend to worry so about this horse and your friend, but there is only so much you can do and obviously since your friend doesn’t want any help, there is nothing left to do except bow out.

Take care and I applaud everyone here that offered to help the owner (at no charge to the owner, I might add) and to the OP who did put up with a lot of ranting on the horse’s behalf.

[RainyDayRide]

to add another point to “they’ll use the PPE to negotiate” … buyer also now knows that the seller is desperate to get rid of the horse, since she turned down the offer to put the gelding on a trailer and send him back to KY.

[BarbB]

My sympathies to the OP, I think you did your best.

Whatever the horse owner gets, IMO she deserves at this point.

My best wishes go to the HORSE, I hope that he ends up somewhere with somebody who gives a rats ass about him.

[Beenthere]

My sources tell me that the horse showed at the XXX show this past weekend and if you go to that site and look at the photo album for XXX show and then click where it says MORE pictures under the heading…I “think” the horse is showing under rider number XXX [removed by Mod 1]. The OP could better identify the horse as he does not have particular markings to use as landmarks but the pictures I have seen from the christmas card match the tack, hat and look of the young tall rider. I understand that the horse did NOT refuse jumps and was a SAINT carting this kid who did short stirrups last year (2007) around the bigger jumps. The kid did get top ribbons on a particular horse but not sure if it is this one because we dont yet know the name she showed the horse under. That will be confirmed shortly.

My understanding is that the kid does love her horses and spoils them. The family had saved some PMU babies last year.

I suspect this is mommy and daddy trying to come up with money. Dad and mom have been around horses along time and they used to sell goats for meat…(not sure if they still do). They are longstanding residents in this area and charitable people, but are fairly new to showing horses. Dad is in real estate which in Florida is a dying occupation right now.

What amazes me is that they are showing a horse they do NOT own and that costs plenty of money to enter that show and pay for a trainer. Shipping etc

My sources said that there were THREE vets at the show doing pre-purchases for people and that vets in that area are plentiful and hungry for business. Pre-purchases are costly in Florida and likely would be greater than $800-$1,000. Perhaps with the holidays they are tapped financially.

As the op stated, we have someone very close willing to go and get the horse and let it be vetted at her barn under her supervision to ensure to funny stuff.

We will stay on top of the issue and if things get any worse we are here to assist. Sounds like horse owner has already mentally spent the money but she should be assured the horse looks great, is in good weight and doing his job.

[mademoiselle]

Well, I have never seen any horse going 100% on a PPE. If you’re willing to spend $1,000 in a vet check, you will find a bunch of ‘problems’.

Then, the ‘buyers’ or in my opinions ‘Thiefs/Scam artists’ are going to offer something insulting. And they will buy the horse for half (if they are generous) most likely 1/3 of what the original price was.

They already managed to get her to reduce the price without any valid reasons. So, wait till he flexes positive, and shows some sign or arthritis, a chip bone somewhere else and a very suspicious remodeling of … (insert whatever bone you want in there).

They will then tell the seller, we love him so, so, so much we are willing to buy him despite the bad vet check.

Ok, who wants to start the bets that the fancy, schmancy leg specialist is going to find many wrong things with the horse ?!

[Bliss92]

Thanks for the update. It sheds more light into the situation (kind of…).

I still have my fingers crossed. Although, much less for the horse owner at the moment, and more for the horse. I would have hitchhiked down to FL by now, and walked the horse back on a lead line if I didn’t have the cash.

I hope those involved (or… partially involved, or what have you) keep us updated. I’ve been following this story, and don’t want to be left wondering how it ended!

[talloaks]

I guess if the buyer’s daddy is a real estate sales person he may be a pretty tricky negotiater so combine that with less than honest trainers you can see the deck is really stacked against the owner. The owner probably does care, but at this point is so over whelmed with all the lies that she just doesn’t know how to handle the situation. Besides she is probably broke and couldn’t afford board if the horse came back. Very sad situation, for the owner and the horse.

[horse-loverz]

And this horse is an OTTB so you know they will find something wrong with his legs.:no: Glad to hear the horse did do well at the show… shame on the people for scamming this girl and shame on her for letting them do it.

[system]

Donkeyman, you are awesome, what an update! Are you a PI? If not, you should be.