Gem Twist clone

[vxf111]

There are 2 clones of Crusing standing stud in Ireland as well. They kept the fact that they cloned him really quiet for a long time and when someone would ask who the young clones were by they’s say “that’s a Cruising” which isn’t a lie

[D_BaldStockings]

Choosing not to use Gem Twist clones because they are clones is an individual decision -fair enough.

Choosing not to use because they are ‘unknown genetic potential / no dam line or sire line generational producers of jumpers’ is not looking at the known facts.

http://equestriancoachblog.com/bonne-nuit-national-show-hunter-hall-of-fame-inductee-one-of-the-most-influential-sires-of-hunters-jumpers-in-history/

As an aside, the sire of Bonne Cause, Elf is also dam’s sire’s sire to the only horse to win the Aintree Grand National and the American Grand National Steeplechases: Battleship, by Man 'o War.

His dam Coldly Noble Tail female to Vaila, also Tail female to Relic XX, sire of Pericles XX sire of Samber (KWPN), also traces to Royal Minstrel, dam sire of Bold Minstrel
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10235292

There is so much more…

[Elles]

Can dude also be said to a woman, because according to me oBdB is a woman :)? Or I must be wrong . Okay, off topic, carry on.

[ladyj79]

@Elles

Can dude also be said to a woman, because according to me oBdB is a woman :)? Or I must be wrong . Okay, off topic, carry on.

yes. When one is from the west coast of the us dude knows no gender.

[dags]

@ladyj79

yes. When one is from the west coast of the us dude knows no gender.

http://i.imgur.com/dJw5iug.png

[see_u_at_x]

@dags

http://i.imgur.com/dJw5iug.png

:lol: I love this! I’m from the Midwest and “dude” is totally non-gender specific.

[Draftmare]

@ladyj79

It looks like he has already had a colt at Keuring last year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Q89rXesx8

unless I’ve completely missed another XX stallion named Gemini?

Wow, he is insanely snappy with his hind legs. That is impressive.

[Elles]

@dags

http://i.imgur.com/dJw5iug.png

You learn something every day :lol:

[vineyridge]

Should point out that the French Elf, sire of Bonne Cause, was the son of the French Upas ( from the Herod Dollar line) which figures prominently in the pedigree of Ksar, whose close descendants were also exceptional TB show jumpers for the US back in the day. The Dollar line was also fabulous for chasing in France and the US.

Crosses of the Dollar line and the French Gray line passed jumping ability on in spades. It brought Herod back to himself. That is the Bonne Nuit cross among others.

[JB]

@ladyj79

yes. When one is from the west coast of the us dude knows no gender.

Here in the South/Southeast too!

Male cardinal nearly becomes a car grill decoration when being territorial or chasing a girl - DUDE! Higher next time!

Or does become a decoration “Dude…”

People, animals, inanimate objects, all fair game :lol:

[D_BaldStockings]

@vineyridge

Should point out that the French Elf, sire of Bonne Cause, was the son of the French Upas ( from the Herod Dollar line) which figures prominently in the pedigree of Ksar, whose close descendants were also exceptional TB show jumpers for the US back in the day. The Dollar line was also fabulous for chasing in France and the US.

Crosses of the Dollar line and the French Gray line passed jumping ability on in spades. It brought Herod back to himself. That is the Bonne Nuit cross among others.

Upas appears twice in Coq D’esprit’s pedigree, sire of Puissance Show jumper and Olympic silver winner Ksar D’esprit.
Ksar D’esprit’s dam also traces twice to Upas. Additionally, there are several lines to Le Sancy, grandsire of Roi Herode, who sired Royal Canopy (Sire of Bonne Nuit) and also The Tetrarch, sire and grandsire of noted steeplechasers.

The tetrarch comes into Gem Twist’s pedigree twice through his sire Good Twist’s dam.
The well known TB Furioso, used in Europe, especially Selle Francais’ 3rd dam is by The Tetrarch.

Gem Twist’s dam Coldly Noble is topline to Double Jay, as also is the Show Jumper For the Moment (registered as Hitch 'n Celebrate) Silver medal Olympics.

[snaffle1987]

Gem Twists lines are immensely talented for jumping. Even horses distantly related to Bonne Nuit have the same great talent for sport horse careers. I would jump at the opportunity to breed to Gem Twist’s clones for sport. What an amazing opportunity as the lines are disappearing in a world of strictly warmblood blood. If they sent him to Ireland I think the horse would get an insane amount of interest and we’d see some unbelievably talented youngsters from his foal crops. Eventers should be lining up to breed to this stallion; they can be a little hot tempered sometimes but I could see some highly successful offspring in the eventing world from Gem Twists clones.

[Draftmare]

@dags

http://i.imgur.com/dJw5iug.png

Haha. yes! Everything and everyone can be referred to as “dude.” I mostly use it when yelling at people who drive 40 mphs in a 55 mph zone during rush hour. “DUDE!” blares horn.

[vineyridge]

@D_BaldStockings

Upas appears twice in Coq D’esprit’s pedigree, sire of Puissance Show jumper and Olympic silver winner Ksar D’esprit.
Ksar D’esprit’s dam also traces twice to Upas. Additionally, there are several lines to Le Sancy, grandsire of Roi Herode, who sired Royal Canopy (Sire of Bonne Nuit) and also The Tetrarch, sire and grandsire of noted steeplechasers.

The tetrarch comes into Gem Twist’s pedigree twice through his sire Good Twist’s dam.
The well known TB Furioso, used in Europe, especially Selle Francais’ 3rd dam is by The Tetrarch.

Gem Twist’s dam Coldly Noble is topline to Double Jay, as also is the Show Jumper For the Moment (registered as Hitch 'n Celebrate) Silver medal Olympics.

Furioso is by Precipitation out of a Son-In-Law mare. Precipitation’s dam is by Bachelor’s Double who showed up an enormous amount in postwar British event horses. Bachelor’s Double is a line that is almost gone today but should be cherished whenever found.

[Nootka]

@OBdB

So a TB which isn’t raced, no problem, but when the parents, the grand-parents and so on were not raced and the progeny is not raced, than you change the selection and in the end, you don’t have a TB anymore even if the paper says otherwise.

This make 0 (zero) sense. GT and his family line were not raced but performance tested through Jumpers so it isn’t a TB? That is a bunch of crap reasoning. This line is well known for producing international Jumpers. These horses don’t have to run around on a track to prove they are TB. Blood is blood… Jump doesn’t only = Warmblood.

[dags]

@OBdB

As to discussing TBs in general vs a TB clone … where’s the problem … he is … his whatsoever (cellprovider) was after all a TB. So every ‘problem’ with (or for) TBs is generally a ‘problem’ for him too, again because he is genetically a TB.

@OBdB

So a TB which isn’t raced, no problem, but when the parents, the grand-parents and so on were not raced and the progeny is not raced, than you change the selection and in the end, you don’t have a TB anymore even if the paper says otherwise.

??? Thoroughly confused by this seemingly obvious contradiction.

[JB]

@Nootka

This make 0 (zero) sense. GT and his family line were not raced but performance tested through Jumpers so it isn’t a TB? That is a bunch of crap reasoning. This line is well known for producing international Jumpers. These horses don’t have to run around on a track to prove they are TB. Blood is blood… Jump doesn’t only = Warmblood.

Just like the American TB isn’t quite the same as the English TB isn’t quite the same as the French TB, and short distance families aren’t quite the same as long distance families aren’t quite the same as 'chasers. They are still still TBs, diverged a little bit from each other, to fit a variety of needs.

TBs are TBs via genetics, nothing else. Not type, not discipline, just genetics.

[OBdB]

Nootka, that is exactly what I said … They are not raced. In short there is no problem. But for me (and I only exposed my point of view) if you change the selection modus, in the end you change the horse. Nonetheless, genetically they are all TBs.
Evidently, you can disagree with my point of view, but do it in a civil manner.

[OBdB]

@dags

??? Thoroughly confused by this seemingly obvious contradiction.

and where is the contradiction ? He is a TBs, genetically, even if he wasn’t raced. The problem, for me, is not GT or his parents or his whatsoever …
All I say, all I state is my opinion (I hope I’m still entitled to have an opinion, even if this opinion isn’t popular) and I think that when you change … why don’t you read the msg above … I already said it there …

[JB]

I know English isn’t your first language, so I’m hoping there’s just a miscommunication due to using the wrong words, or the wrong order, or something, but I’m not understanding this:

@OBdB

So a TB which isn’t raced, no problem, but when the parents, the grand-parents and so on were not raced and the progeny is not raced, than you change the selection and in the end, you don’t have a TB anymore even if the paper says otherwise.

vs

@OBdB

and where is the contradiction ? He is a TBs, genetically, even if he wasn’t raced.

That seems like a direct contradiction

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, I’m truly trying to understand your perspective, since you have contradicted yourself a couple of times via your words, even if it wasn’t your intent.