We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. They owe you professionalism in terms of treating you and your horse with respect when they’re on your property for the exam, but the contents of the report are between the vet and whoever paid for it.
I completely understand why you’re frustrated here, I just don’t think you have any good options to address it. There was a thread recently in response to a well known seller’s Facebook post about PPEs that might be worth a read. IIRC it got a range of responses from sellers, buyers, and vets, maybe there’s something in there that you could use.
I’m about to start my 3rd year of vet school and can confirm this. It’s great that otherwise non horsey people are interested in equine, but there’s no way to get the same level of knowledge as, say, a former barn rat.
And IME the consequences can be serious because equine vets who didn’t grow up handling horses are more at risk of injury. Sedation nowadays is a big equalizer in allowing safer handling by non-experienced vets but I know of at least one vet seriously injured because she lacked horse handling skills. Yep, non-horsy background.
I want to be very clear because I feel like words are being put in my mouth: I am not seeking to alter the contents of the ppe in any way, nor am I asking the vet to disclose information that I don’t already have, nor am I asking them to apologize or something like that. I’m just giving feedback that I hope would help in the longterm learning curve of a younger vet and their communication on PPEs.
In reality, equine vets are very much dependent on people like me for their success and business. Of course I am not saying that this particular vet owes me anything in particular, but without people like me running boarding barns and selling horses and sending new people along the path to horse ownership by offering lessons, things would get A LOT harder for equine vets. We are codependent. So if there are clear errors or poor communication on a ppe, it absolutely is fair of me to give them feedback in a professional manner. And if anything it should happen more often if people are able to talk about things in a professional manner and give each other feedback things are much better for the horse industry.
Are they truly errors (like wrong date/breed/color) or a difference in opinion about soundness or how the horse moves/weight/condition/ability to do a certain sport?
I am going to post my thoughts on something. I realize these thoughts are based on a couple of VERY cropped photos.
If I was shopping and saw those photos, I probably would not come look. To me the horse in those photos looks sore in the back end. Something to do with how it is standing/posed in every one of the photos makes the horse look not quite right (in my opinion).
The horse is clearly well cared for, with a lovely shiny coat.
This right here. You’ve already got something personal against the practice which may be clouding your judgement.
Each vet is their own flavor and does things their own ways. Some are more similar than others. You have 4 different vets do a PPE on the same horse, and you’re likely going to have some different takes. Some vets will always find something. Some prospective buyers realize this and some do not. Some buyers will have a lifetime of experience to take what the PPE says into consideration but balance it against their own opinions. Many do not and will err on the side of the vet.
This reads to me more along the lines of being shocked/offended personally by what the vet said even though you essentially agree with a chunk of it:
What if this vet’s problem wasn’t with you, but with the buyer? What if the buyer came across as very anxious/obsessive (first time buyer, maybe?) and her instructions to the vet and follow up questions gave the vet the impression that they would be blamed for any future unsoundness or any pimple or blemish not disclosed on the PPE?
Or what if the buyer indicated to the vet in conversation that she had higher aspirations for the horse than the vet thought was reasonable?
Most vets in this situation go out of their way to document everything they can on the PPE to cover their butts, even if the horse presents clinically sound and is currently doing the job.
I have known plenty of buyers like this, and have asked the vet to document everything on the PPE so the buyer can’t claim something wasn’t disclosed and to cover both our butts.
You have brought up a great discussion regarding a horse professionals assessment vs a vets assessment.
But with all due respect, your title and original post indicate that you may believe that they have intentionally sabotaged your horse sale as retribution for changing vets. With that context, it is difficult to view any communication as “just some friendly advice…one horseperson to another”.
You have every right to feel the way you do. You really do. But “providing feedback”, particularly as a former client that wasn’t happy with their work, isn’t going to land the way you think it will.
I think the cons of: small horse world, not getting or getting a bad boarding recommendations from this practice, this practice refusing to come to your farm at all, outweigh the pros: getting it off your chest. Take the high ground here. You also don’t need to recommend them either.
Some alternatives:
When a prospective buyer schedules a PPE with said vet, comment “That practice is very critical regarding PPE” or “Dr Veteran is the better sport horse vet”. You don’t need to spill the tea…but you can help set the clients expectation.
If someone asks for a list of vets in your area, conveniently leave them off
You also don’t know what work is being done behind the scenes with Young Vet. They are not your employee. Maybe this has already been addressed with them? If Veteran vet knows your horses maybe they are like “Dobbin? He failed? What?”. You have lost too much energy on this and you aren’t getting paid to be Young Vet’s manager.
If a prospective buyer decides to use your former vet practice, couldn’t you say that you had a history with that practice and decided to part ways. I mean, as a Buyer I would want to use a practice that Seller has no history with…if anything because I might thing former practice might be biased towards Seller!
Really the only way this goes the way you’re hoping is if you have a close relationship with the senior vet and can have a friendly chat. In every other circumstance, initiating this discussion only reflects poorly on you & your business.
A PPE is an opinion. Even the condition scoring. Opinions can certainly be wrong. Going and telling a provider how wrong their opinion is very, very rarely goes well.
I’m a little surprised they even booked a PPE on one of your horses given the previous relationship. But in the future, you can certainly lean on that previous relationship to steer potential purchasers elsewhere for their PPEs.
I corrected this because that was my initial reaction because of how extreme the language was on the ppe and how it twisted some information I had given and relayed it incorrectly, it really felt personal to me, and I wonder if this same vet had vetted one of Boyd Martins horses he has for sale, would they have felt comfortable using that language? My guess is no
Personally, I don’t know why any buyer or seller cares about what a vet says about body condition score. Don’t both parties have eyes on the horse? I would think it shouldn’t matter if the vet said it was a 5 and the seller thinks it’s a 6. Unless a horse is dangerously thin or fat, that seems to be a minor error that is clearly visible.
Looking at an X-ray and claiming navicular when there is no evidence would be different.
Honestly, I’m so over horse “professionals” ranting about PPEs. It’s extremely unprofessional. A PPE is the buyer’s prerogative. Going through with the sale is the buyers prerogative. You had a deal that fell apart. That’s part of the business. Whether it’s because of something the vet said or the buyer decided the moon wasn’t in the correct phase, it doesn’t matter. You’re going to need a thicker skin in the horse selling business. You have a good horse, so let this go, move on and keep marketing the horse to find the right match.
If one deal falling apart is going to kill your business, then you should probably rethink your business model, not try to impose your opinion on how a vet should run their practice.
And I say this as someone who bought a horse that “failed” the PPE.
You didn’t see the language of the ppe, which was unprofessional. You cant demand professionalism of me but not of a vet. There’s such a double standard and that is not right.
And I’m not a horse flipper, so I have put countless hours of work and money into this one horse and went above and beyond to be honest with the vet and the buyer and disclosed information I didn’t have to, which was then exaggerated and distorted. A much better business model would be to just flip horses, put nothing into them, and disclose no information about them and then if one fails, then it’s no biggie. I make very little money in these and it’s mainly the satisfaction of setting the horse up for a better life than before it came to me that keeps me going, so I do take it personally (and yes I shouldn’t, but I’m human just like everyone else) having a horse of mine called very underweight with additional language I don’t need to share underscoring and emphasizing that in the ppe.
If the buyer isn’t capable of looking at the horse in front of them and assessing whether or not it’s dangerously thin, is that really someone you even want owning this horse.
I mean we’re not talking about “sure he could use another few pounds.” Dangerously thin doesn’t take a rocket scientist to identify.
It sounds like the buyer was looking for a reason to walk if that’s the excuse they gave.
